Have they changed since you are no longer a believer in the claims of Mormonism?

If you use prayer and/or meditation, what are the benefits to you personally?

As a Mormon, I would pray before every meal and before going to bed. I would also pray for guidance when some important decision had to be made.

Now, I do not pray anymore, and I feel much better. I still treat food with respect, but I do not thank God for it. Instead of asking God for guidance I focus more on how I am feeling myself.

thank you and requests for help!
I felt like I was talking to myself anyhow! :-)

I found that prayer became too much of a habit that was a chore: don't eat before you pray, don't go to bed before you pray, and on and on.
I find it much more beneficial to use some type of meditation for my personal use.
It helps me focus and relaxed.

There definintely is something to prayer/meditation. People who pray or meditate tend to develop synesthesia more ofthen than people who don't. This could account for the spirit.

I'm made a few attempts, and it has been calming. However, it's really hard for me to stop and do it.

I believe that when people pray they are accessing some kind of inner wisdom; what feels right to them, based on their experiences and knowledge.

That would explain how sometimes prayer leads people in the right direction (good inner wisdom) or wrong directions (incomplete inner wisdom).

I just wrote a very detailed post outlining my experience with prayer and meditation and I lost it. Arghhhhh!! I will forever onward write my posts elsewhere and then copy and paste onto this forum!

Anyhow, here's the condensed version.

I had two experiences with prayer in which I felt I actually received an answer; two times out of possibly thousands of prayers. Both times, if you were a fly on the wall, you would have seen me on my knees for about an hour, crying, rocking back and forth and repeating the same question over and over. I had faith! I was not going to get up until I had an answer. The result was a feeling I attributed to love, and it's hard to describe. It was like a silent humming or vibration. The air around me felt thick, as if I could cut through it. It felt wonderful, almost orgasmic, though I had no idea at the time what an orgasm felt like.

After I started practicing yoga, I started noticing similarities between it and prayer. The first time I meditated for more than a few minutes I had an almost identical experience to my "answers."

I sat on a mat in my silent house and concentrated on a green wheat field at dawn with sprinklers running. Growing up on a farm, this is a particularly favorite scene of mine. In my mind, I chanted the word "peace." It had nothing to do with god.

After intense yoga sessions, when I'm in corpse pose, I feel completely peaceful and my own "being" seems to glow inside. Many times I actually feel like I'm floating.

I also experience an amazing "vibration" and feeling of happiness and contentedness after very long runs, like 10 miles or more. It is more intense than my typical runner's high that I get after a short 3 miler or so. On long runs, I tend to start thinking about the same thing for miles at a time. I'm not sure if this is what makes the difference and it only happens if I run without my ipod.

Meditation for me is more effective than prayer ever was. I feel powerful and content. In prayer, I was weak and submissive, waiting to be blessed by an exterior power outside myself. Meditation clears my mind. Prayer clouded it with worry. Instead of waiting for god to guide me, I use my own power to find my way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2011 02:42AM by Queen of Denial.

Queen of Denial Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just wrote a very detailed post outlining my
> experience with prayer and meditation and I lost
> it. Arghhhhh!! I will forever onward write my
> posts elsewhere and then copy and paste onto this
> forum!
>
> Anyhow, here's the condensed version.
>
> I had two experiences with prayer in which I felt
> I actually received an answer; two times out of
> possibly thousands of prayers. Both times, if you
> were a fly on the wall, you would have seen me on
> my knees for about an hour, crying, rocking back
> and forth and repeating the same question over and
> over. I had faith! I was not going to get up until
> I had an answer. The result was a feeling I
> attributed to love, and it's hard to describe. It
> was like a silent humming or vibration. The air
> around me felt thick, as if I could cut through
> it. It felt wonderful, almost orgasmic, though I
> had no idea at the time what an orgasm felt like.
>
>
> After I started practicing yoga, I started
> noticing similarities between it and prayer. The
> first time I meditated for more than a few minutes
> I had an almost identical experience to my
> "answers."
>
> I sat on a mat in my silent house and concentrated
> on a green wheat field at dawn with sprinklers
> running. Growing up on a farm, this is a
> particularly favorite scene of mine. In my mind, I
> chanted the word "peace." It had nothing to do
> with god.
>
> After intense yoga sessions, when I'm in corpse
> pose, I feel completely peaceful and my own
> "being" seems to glow inside. Many times I
> actually feel like I'm floating.
>
> I also experience an amazing "vibration" and
> feeling of happiness and contentedness after very
> long runs, like 10 miles or more. It is more
> intense than my typical runner's high that I get
> after a short 3 miler or so. On long runs, I tend
> to start thinking about the same thing for miles
> at a time. I'm not sure if this is what makes the
> difference and it only happens if I run without my
> ipod.
>
> Meditation for me is more effective than prayer
> ever was. I feel powerful and content. In prayer,
> I was weak and submissive, waiting to be blessed
> by an exterior power outside myself. Meditation
> clears my mind. Prayer clouded it with worry.
> Instead of waiting for god to guide me, I use my
> own power to find my way.

Queen of Denial
I just wanted to comment on the 10 mile runs! I can't run anymore but when I did, three miles was my limit and it was more of a soft, easy jog. I really admire anyone who can do those long runs. Even in my shorter easier runs, I found I got into a "zone" mentally that was very calming.

Interesting question, SusieQ. The research I've read on theistic prayer is if your image of God is of a being who is benign and loving, prayer is comforting and calming and integrative. If your image of God is that of a being who is angry, demanding, and critical prayer is frightening, upsetting, and decompensating. People who pray to a frightening, angry demanding God tend to be obsessive about prayer and come away filled with self-doubt.

My experience of prayer as a Mormon until after my leaving the church bears this out. As my images of God change from God as demanding and critical to an accepting and loving Goddess (yes, I said that), I felt more calm, self-accepting, and whole.

robertb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting question, SusieQ. The research I've
> read on theistic prayer is if your image of God is
> of a being who is benign and loving, prayer is
> comforting and calming and integrative. If your
> image of God is that of a being who is angry,
> demanding, and critical prayer is frightening,
> upsetting, and decompensating. People who pray to
> a frightening, angry demanding God tend to be
> obsessive about prayer and come away filled with
> self-doubt.
>
> My experience of prayer as a Mormon until after my
> leaving the church bears this out. As my images of
> God change from God as demanding and critical to
> an accepting and loving Goddess (yes, I said
> that), I felt more calm, self-accepting, and
> whole.

When you said "loving Goddess" that reminded me that in a little Spiritualist Church I have visited a few times, they pray: "Mother, Father God." I rather liked that! :-)

I came from a type of Christian background that God was loving and accepting and caring which carried over to my prayers as a Mormon.

God or Goddess...for me only love...mine is not a cruel mean God/Goddess...

stormy

My thoughts is basically there is nothing special about prayer. Experiments have shown that things people pray for (people to get well, promotion at work, passing a test, etc) don't actually have a greater chance of happening for people who pray for it than people who don't.

There are different meditations. You begin with just letting everything go and clearing you mind and then just riding what comes without thinking about it. Believe it or not this takes discipline because most people don't do this. They have their mind so full of stress and things to do they can't hit this level of relaxation.

You start there and can take it way further. I do a real intense form of meditation where I wouldn't dare do it while driving a car because it would be unsafe. Also when things go well you get high as a kite without drugs. It's pretty fun and what I have found it really helps your mental discipline and you can focus on tasks better because meditation is all about mental discipline and focusing at and intense level while being relaxed at the same time.

It's a good thing to replace a vice like over eating, drinking too much or drugs with.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are different meditations. You begin with
> just letting everything go and clearing you mind
> and then just riding what comes without thinking
> about it. Believe it or not this takes discipline
> because most people don't do this. They have
> their mind so full of stress and things to do they
> can't hit this level of relaxation.
>
> You start there and can take it way further. I do
> a real intense form of meditation where I wouldn't
> dare do it while driving a car because it would be
> unsafe. Also when things go well you get high as
> a kite without drugs. It's pretty fun and what I
> have found it really helps your mental discipline
> and you can focus on tasks better because
> meditation is all about mental discipline and
> focusing at and intense level while being relaxed
> at the same time.
>
> It's a good thing to replace a vice like over
> eating, drinking too much or drugs with.


Interesting you mention meditation and driving. I have some meditation tapes that have a Caution: Do not use while driving!

Meditation, when I use it, has had the result of helping me stay focused. Can't beat that!

I probably ought to start doing meditation more often.

I never looked inward with prayer. I got no answers from it and basically never believed in it anyways. It was all part of the social program and not my program. I was dealing with obsessive compulsive disorder as a kid as well and the whole prayer thing messed that up. I had to turn light switches on a certain way and step on every other stare and enter rooms certain ways. Mormonism just inflamed that even worse.

What's weird is I have no OCD now at all. It's like I outgrew it but when I was younger is was pretty bad.

As a believer in God, Not TSCC, I agree with the premise that logic, reason, and facts trump faith. With this I do trust that faith & prayer has its place in my life.

One way I like to pray is while meditating during a relaxing swim or while on a long walk while enjoying the journey. Another way might be while toasting others with my beverage before a meal expressing gratitude to the chef, and saying other pleasantries, etc, with a prayer in my heart. I believe many prayers are non-verbal in nature. I don’t just go through the motions arbitrarily, but do it at a time when it is meaningful to me, and will include others that want to participate with me.

Through faith and prayer I believe God can teach and inspire me in my life respective to each of my roles, such as, individual, family, organizational, on the job, volunteer work, etc. Furthermore, I believe God doesn’t place one person in authority over another regarding spiritual matters – authority from God is inherent in each human being. I think that individuals have the God given right to manage their own path in life the way each sees fit, without the requirement of an intermediary or middleman (like a bishop, home teacher, priesthood ordinance, etc).

For me prayer is an excellent ingredient, but not necessarily a requirement, for success. I’ve found it’s a way among others to add quality to my life. Sometimes prayers can be self-fulfilling prophecies so to speak.

All those lds prayers! Pray when you wake up - ere you leave your room, never mind a full bladder. Couple prayer if you are married. Family prayer if you have kids, bless each meal, prayer before reading the scriptures, pray before any church meetings, VTing or HTing, pray at night, again individually, as a couple and as a family, depending on circumstances. I'm sure I missed some out there.

I used to think HF would be sick of the sound of my voice.

Now I meditate once a day. I agree with whoever said prayer was just a way of deeply thinking about things, finding your own answers. Now I can do that without my thinking being cluttered up with lds think. I doubt there is a God type person interested in me as an individual, though like lily there are times I can miss that. Can't unthink a thought though.

I appreciate Robert's comment. Letting go of aprehension, fear & an image of an abusing god, that created unlovable creature deserving to be hurt, punished or go to hell- letting go of that
is probably the most important thing I have done leaving mormonism. The idea of god in the book of mormon sadly makes this image of a god that sets people up- lets them be born, badly, and then invites others to even murder them in the story of Laban, and suggests god makes such a rotten world God himself needs human warriors to kill other humans in the story of the stripling warriors. Those are bad suggestions. What about the mormon story of Jesus coming to the Americas and making earthquakes first killing hecka people? Seriously those are not loving images of a god that is glad he created you.

That, that influences prayer.

Robert got it right. Self concept in prayer is influenced by concept of the diety or theism. The experience correlates pretty well with it.

The mormon idea of god on another planet, who would withdraw the only aspect of god (holy ghost was it?) from someone who broke god's rules- leaving them alone in the dark world. . . well that's not conducive to comfort. It brings unsettling images and also prayers with unsettled feelings or anxiety.

I found repetative prayer calming. I found a modified rosary & the saint patrick's chaplet real calming. It diverted or disolved anxiety when I found that both children had tumors & everyone had to do a new type of tumor scan. I think a set point away from anxiety triggers helps in meditation but there needs to be some ground work or foundation that is not built on like what Robert said, images of a cruel or rejecting god.

I have tried yoga & weight lifting as ways to hold onto life differently than I did before. I tie more value now to nature & standing in it, seeing it, am more open to my spouse's diesm than before when I couldn't understand it. So walking, seeing, going rock hounding, walking a canyon, watching the sun go down, seeing the mist clear on a foggy day- it has new meaning. Those normal things, noticing plants growing by the sidewalk, a seagull flying inland they become a prayer. Noticing them, appreicating them, is making my life more full of appreciation.

I also found prayer beads, something you can hold onto calming. I like making things with gemstones or beads now, just making things and holding the beads is calming, holding, wrapping, the wire links putting another bead on, is also calming.

It is a way of coming into the moment, separate from life's stressful events. Praying with prayer beads with a posative affirmation or hope as a friend rather than god as a reminder of cruel punishment- that does it. It can be a concrete anchor, with a posative focus, empowering someone to step out of life's stream of stressful things for a moment.

The trick is to take that calm, and that sense of hope, caring, postive ness- with you as you live life.

Prayer is one form of meditation, but clearing the mind of all thoughts does the same thing as Buhdists do. Tai Chi and Yoga are also forms of meditation. All are different means to an end and that is to discipline oneself.

Meditation has been demonstrated to be effective in relieving stress and having a calming effect. If we think of prayer as a form of meditation (as some above have suggested) then why not? If it helps, go for it! But if one thinks of prayer as the means of petitioning some supreme being, higher power or outside force, then there's a problem. That kind of prayer is like kissing a baby's boo-boo; it doesn't really do anything but everyone feels better for having done so.

My mind becomes clear and focused and it's as if I receive "messages" (yeah, I know, I'm a little crazy) from within myself. I call this "listening to my inner it." It's my voice, my thoughts, but without all the typical bullsh#t that crowds my mind on a daily basis.

Some things I have learned through meditation: Don't worry; Keep moving; Let go of things that hold me back; My being is enough. And much more. I find the simplest answers to my issues.

All methods of meditation are supposed to bring inner peace to the soul. Prayer is only one method.

Living with three still very active members, we continue to have prayer, but when I say the prayer it is more about gratitude.

My son, who resigned 4 years ago, and myself (still waiting for official notice after resigning in December) still give prayers. We also do a lot of meditating. My wife is big on Yoga, and I use it in my workouts. My son did Theta healing and Thai Chi.

from a local Buddhist monk on meditation a few months ago. He taught that meditation was about happiness, a method for inner peace, to work on your mind, to learn to be happy, to make our lives more meaningful. A happy mind is a peaceful mind.

I found that meditation only worked to bring happiness when I cleared my mind of all negative thoughts as they rise to negative feelings. The negative thoughts held me hostage.
It was a way to let go of problems, allowed for the potential to over come all difficulties, peace in our hearts, become familiar with feelings of love.

I had taken classes in meditation many times before some years in the past, and never once heard anything about the point being to be happy. The Buddhist monk taught: the whole point of meditation is about attaining happiness. He taught: focus on love so that we feel love. It has the component of joy.

I'm still working on controlling my thoughts during meditation as our mind naturally is clouded with many thoughts. He also taught that it can become a beautiful daydream. It takes practice and dedication, but the results are worth it!

just notice them and then gently let go and bring your mind back

BadGirl Wrote:
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> just notice them and then gently let go and bring
> your mind back


Yes. Exactly. That's stated more accurately.

Once I told a soliciting religious fanatic I'd pay him fifty dollars if he'd pray to me for 15 minutes. He didn't like it.

Cuts in to my beer time!

Timothy

Meditation = self realization = god realization

++ good