I've just been on the EFY website and there's the typical focus on boys having no facial hair/sideburns, must have conservative hairstyles, no unnatural hair colours, shorts below knees, white shirts and conservative ties, only one pair of earrings for girls etc.

My views:

1) You're automatically limiting the attendance of a number of youth that are really great kids (and if you have a TBM perspective), who may really benefit from EFY, solely on how they look.

2) Why has this stuffy dress & appearance requirement become quite so endemic within TSCC recently? I can understand why they might want missionaries to have the same corporate image, but 15 year old boys & girls? It was never this way when I was in the youth programme 20-25 yrs ago and I personally don't see it as a positive change at all. Conservative ties?! Give me a break!

3) There seems to be such a strong focus on image and the outside appearance rather than what people are actually like. Correct me if I didn't get the memo, but Christ had a beard 2000 years ago and he and his dad certainly hadn't bothered to shave when they supposedly turned up again in 1820. If he exists, then I just don't see him being at all concerned about how the youth look, compared to what kind of people they are and how they treat others.

4) This constant message reinforcement might also serve to create a large number of youth that automatically look down on and judge those peers who generally don't comply to these strict standards and who see nothing wrong with expressing their individuality

5) This ridiculous focus on appearance aligns with the increasingly glossy, slick, clean cut corporate image that TSCC is desperate to portray on all its websites and PR. I actually think it turns off a lot of non-members who are more astute to recognise that a veneer is only that.

6) Whilst TSCC talks incessantly about 'Coming unto Christ' on the EFY website and elsewhere, surely being Christian is a reflection of one's heart, regardless of outside appearance. While focusing on one's outward appearance is just cultish.

And I agree with you--there wasn't this focus on dress back when I was growing up mormon. Even my mother bought us and sewed us mini skirts.

They all look more like they have no personality nowadays. My daughter even told me she has become boring since going back to the lds church (and she would be correct). She's 27. She looks "harsher" now, too.

My son has purple hair and a few tattoos and piercings. His friend, who also looks like him, took him to her parents' home last week and they automatically assumed that he would come back to rob them. They don't know my son. HUGE heart, wouldn't hurt a fly. They even shouted this in his presence. They did "repent" the next day and invited him to dinner when they realized that "maybe Christ would have showed up looking like my son did."

I grew up with a hippie brother. Had a huge beard and long hair most of my life. So when a guy approached me to help me fix my car in the desert by Yermo, CA some years ago. I was a single mother with 5 kids with me--and it was nighttime. All the kids were afraid and I was not. I never thought a thing about it. My brother also has a huge heart and wouldn't hurt anyone. The guy fixed my alternator and only charged me for the part.

It is the "stepford" attitude. No individuality. AND the idea of being "garment" modest even with little children that I see nowadays shocks me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2013 09:41AM by cl2.

Glorious red hair, and LOOOOONG! He also has a beard. If John the Baptist had red hair... My brother just turned 60 and I think he's entitled to wear his hair any way he wants! He quit going to a local bikers' church when they sponsored a Bill Gothard seminar. Gothard's hooked on appearance and judging by it too; everyone should look like characters in the show "Mad Men" only more conservative.

brother than mormon men--even as a TBM. My sister's boyfriend's brother--he is in his 60s and works for the state of Utah. Never been a mormon. You should see his gray hair and beard! They gave him a hard time about it--so he completely shaved, head and all. He is now back to huge beard and gray hair.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2013 11:32AM by cl2.

It's all in the eyes and lines of the face. Not the hair... Stupid superficial judgy mormons. People with a good heart, it shows in their face. And you can see how empty a lot of the conforming mormons are. All over their faces.

Of course there are mormon exceptions. Just like there really are scary mean horrible people with long hair and beards!

I couldn't agree more. I guess appearances are important when you have nothing of substance to offer.

It is all about...control. If you can dictate someone's appearance and dress, later when you are trying to control their value judgments and thought processes the individuals submit much more easily. And when they start to think outside the box, eternal salvation is at risk, better repent.

The church is all about appearances: build a fancy new mall to show your wealth/power, imposing temples, release growth numbers climbing ever upward (fudge the numbers or change how the stats are derived when needed), have a huge sales-force, and retain an expensive PR firm. It is corporation through and through! Image is everything.

And it is backfiring. Young adults and teenagers are very media savvy and cynical, I think the great recession has played an important role in this. People now understand what corporations/C-level executives do and say are often two different things. They look at the glossy Web site and listen to the sales-pitch; then see the depression, misogyny, and high expectations/demands for little return.

Garment modest for toddlers is shocking. I've always been amused how the TSCC combines chastity with morality. A chaste person can be immoral, and vise versa.

moreevilthanhitler Wrote:

> Garment modest for toddlers is shocking.

Are they really doing that? Toddlers?

S.C.A.R.Y

The thought process is, "If they dress modestly as children, when they become teenagers you won't have issues with explaining/changing their wardrobe to meet LD$ modesty standards." I'll be honest, the thought of having two teenage girls in about 7 years terrifies me. Having one of them wear a sleeveless dress or a skirt that is slightly above the knee will be the least of my problems.

My daughters wear shirts under their sundresses. It is silly and unhealthy as it sexualizes children. I'm working on my TBM wife, slowly.

That is so stupid. You would automatically have a completely different wardrobe as a teen/adult than you did as a toddler based on needing larger sizes. What a lame excuse.

Yep! I used to get lectures from my TBM sister about putting my toddlers in sleeveless outfits.

EFY is training wheels.

Get them use to obeying on the small things, and little by little, step by step, you can lead them slowly down to ...denying their true selves to their very core and becoming a zombie for Joseph--Mormon Hell. Let's not kid ourselves that Jesus is in the picture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2013 10:49AM by blueorchid.

sherlock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) You're automatically limiting the attendance of
> a number of youth that are really great kids

Yeah, you'd think a proselytizing church would want to attract as many people as possible, not reject them.

I was surprised to learn the church started conducting worthiness interviews in order to be allowed to attend church dances. What? When I was a teen, the idea was that the church held dances and other social events so kids and their gentile friends had wholesome alternatives to the wicked temptations of the world. It was better to have a hippie looking kid at a ward dance than to have him getting in trouble somewhere else.

Forget that Jesus walked among the sinners, though. The church is now trying to keep its active youth unsullied by the outside world. If that means cutting off the less perfect ones, well, so be it.

And it makes TBM parents' and leaders' job harder if their kids can point to inappropriate-looking but totally nice and moral peers and say, "See, you don't need to look a certain way in order to be a good person." So those nice nonconforming kids need to be kept away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2013 12:13PM by Stray Mutt.

Stray Mutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was surprised to learn the church started
> conducting worthiness interviews in order to be
> allowed to attend church dances.

Excuse me? Worthiness interviews for a fucking dance??!!

Oh yes. And individual dance cards which mimicked temple recommends & horrible baggy t-shirts that girls would be forced to wear should they dare turn up exposing a bit of shoulder.

No wonder that many soon realised it was far more fun to attend non-member friend's parties, as well as bars and clubs.

Lots more. I'm starting a thread.

By focusing on performance and appearance, the Mormon church isn't following the Savior, they are following the Pharisees who wanted Jesus dead. They didn't like that he had new ideas, that he wouldn't follow their rules.

Worse, from a Mormon point of view, the focus on appearance is sabotaging the opinions of non-LDS they are trying to impress. The rest of the world may appreciate a good appearance but expect a good product underneath. In the real world, people are more accepted for who they are so they develop a character and a personality. They aren't actors performing their roles they are humans living their lives, usually imperfectly, but as real people. Mormon appearance may catch peoples' attention but if there is nothing underneath, it's like opening a beautifully wrapped, empty box. They would do much, much better to focus on character.

Semi-related note about judging people by appearances.

I grew up hanging around racetracks. My dad raced motorcycles (quit when he became a mormon because you can't race on Sunday). Every weekend, he packed us up and trotted us all off to the track, raced all weekend and back home again. During the week and non-race season, he'd take us around to all the bike shops. He'd socialize with his racing buddies, they'd trade tips and tricks and set ups, maybe purchase a part or some gear here and there. In short, I grew up around really rough bikers.

I have not even the slightest hint of fear about Hell's Angels types. I tend to be super friendly with them, because in my experience, bikers are some of the kindest, warmest, open-hearted people you could ever hope to meet. Far kinder and warmer and more helpful than mormons in general.

Many years ago, I was working at a BMW factory in South Carolina that had just been built. It was so new, they were still building parts of the building when I worked there. One day, I went out to smoke and spotted this 6' 4" dude with steel-toed biker boots, a huge biker beard, and a biker leather jacket on. He was standing by himself, despite a couple dozen other people being out there. Nobody spoke to him. He looked too scary.

So I marched right up to him, stuck out my hand and introduced myself. Turns out, the guy was an enormous teddy bear. Sweet and kind as the day is long -- he just liked motorcycles. Well, I do too. I also learned that he was also from Ohio, and not far from where I was from. He'd even raced motorcycles and had raced at some of the same tracks I'd hung around as a kid. "Do they still have those bleachers built into the stone quarry?" "Yep." "Oh, cool!" We eventually got to be good friends and if I needed help or something, I ran straight to him. And he was there for me, every. single. time.

The guy would never achieve anything close to mormon standards of dress and appearance. But he far surpassed most mormon standards of behavior. That was a lesson that has served me well ever since. Do not assume anything based on someone's appearance. You just never know what's lurking behind the protective outer coating.

Outward appearance has always been most important to the morg.

If you are a student at some church schools, you cannot wear gym shorts in the cafeteria. Super tight dress shorts are OK, but knee length gym shorts, brand new....not welcome.

^^^Truth!

I hated it in the 60s when I was attending and it was mild compared to today. Even so it was one of the reasons I stopped attending

STYLE over SUBSTANCE

Curse the thought that people can be individuals!!

My son use to ( and still does actually) wear his hair a little longer than the collar. It is thick and wavey. Oh my goodness, you would have thought he was the apprentice satan!

They did not look on all his good side and talents - just the hair!!

I have come to the conclusion that God couldn't care less about what clothes we wear or how we wear our hair, how many times we pierce our ears or if we have tattoos or not.
Seriously, why would the creator of the universe care about your underwear?

I was one of those "fortunate" TBM daughters who went to EFY several years in a row, in several different states. The last summer I went at age 17 I was experiencing weight and stomach problems that made regular jeans and shorts incredibly uncomfortable. I was chastised for wearing sweats that did go to the knee, because they were supposedly too tight which wasn't allowed. I was also forced to wear a cami and an additional skirt under my formal dress for the formal dance. This was to make sure I was covered to the bottom of the back of my knee, and so that there were no gaps between my skin and material. Did I mention I had a larger chest at the time, it is almost impossible to not have a "gap" even when wearing a cami or tank top underneath. It was a horrible experience and yet I still somehow gave a tear enducing testimony at the end of the week.

I am so much happier to be free of such scrutiny.