Sorry if this has already been posted about before.

True or just an urban myth we all want to believe is true? Can anyone verify?

http://journeyofloyaldissent.wordpress.com/

I believe this story is real, and that this is what the seventy believes. It's probably true for most of them, but not everyone probably handles things the same way.

To me, Boyd K. Packard is probably a true believer. There is probably a minority of apostles who instead of loosing their faith entirely, instead double down on the stupid, and become super radical.

One can not be a bogus "prophet, seer and revelator" and not KNOW they are a fraud. They ALL know they are frauds at that level.

I once worked with a COO who was the stupidest human being I've ever met who wasn't actually retarded. He was very charismatic and clearly unaware that he was an idiot and, ultimately, a fraud. Quite the opposite; in his mind and what he projected, he was fabulous and an asset to any organization.

Growing up, I knew several members of the John Birch society. They were so loony that I sometimes wondered if they were just pulling my leg. I eventually realized that they were sincere.

I suspect there are general authorities, including apostles, who know it's all nonsense, but continue for widely different motives. At the same time, I've no doubt that most in the leadership really believe.

I disagree. I think at least most of the 15, if not all of them, believe it is all true.

I reflect on my time in callings. The "promptings" were of course all of my mental creation, but I truly believed that was how "God" worked. I think it's the same for these despicable people.

I would be highly surprised if this were for real. It's all conjecture, undocumented claims and wishful thinking,

Wanna know of it's true? Look at the facts? O wait, there are none.

There is one fact.

Grant Palmer has stated that one GA and one mission president have told him that they don't believe.

All else is conjecture.

To make a judgement on whether it is true or not, I'd have to know Grant Palmer personally. I'd have to know if he is trustworthy. I don't know him, I've read his book, I believe him for right now, but I can't say I KNOW the story is true. I don't know why you would disbelieve him, do you know him?

Well he may want to protect a friend who would lose his pension if he was outed. You may not get what you want.

I'm sure Grant may have had the conversation. But doesn't the GA say Grant's book opened his eyes, and then he tells Grant all the Apostles know it's a fraud because of information he's known for many years?

Did he read Grant's book before talking with the Apostles?

That story seemed internally inconsistent to me.

What's up with Grant Palmer though, that website says he's a renowned LDS historian. Was he involved with FAIR or something like that? I've been out of TSCC for too long to really know who he is. If someone knows, please fill me in.

All you have to do to be impressed with Grant Palmer is to read his book "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins." When I finished it, it was clear that Palmer is a very good historian--honest, informed, and forthright.

I would take him at his word just because of this.

that's what I was trying to get to, whether or not he's credible. Thanks, I'll try and read it.

Here's the info.


http://mormonthink.com/grantpalmer.htm

And MT confirms that it is Grant Palmer that wrote about the GA and mission presidents. We cannot corraborate if the claims are true, just that they were made to Grant.

http://mormonthink.com/grant9.htm

thanks!

So....if Hans Mattson is THE GA or one of them....Big deal....As an Area Authority he is no more than a glorified Stake Prez at best....in that case, who cares about what Mattson thinks or where or to what rag he preaches his rhetoric....if that is all Palmer has...so much for his integrity....
IF, there is an actual 70 or Q 12/15, for hells sake name a name Palmer......or you have no more integrity than the National Enquirer or The Star.....put up or shut up....spew the info and save mankind.....right now, it is no more than "he said she said" and the best you have right now to come out publicly is a Glorified Swede Stake President that no one knows who in the hell he is nor cares......
I am not a "Blind Follower" , but if Palmer nor anyone else has any more positive proof than three meetings and a hug from a man of integrity....Palmer and HIS followers is not any better than the Church and Leaders he is trying to save us all from.

And don't say that the "Leader" does not want to be outed for fear of retribution from the Big Boys in the Big White Building...sorry, that is no better than "an insider says" on a new Kim Kardashian Hollywood story scam....

AGAIN! I am a simple man...
.I question all things inside the Church and out...so Palmer, PUT UP OR SHUT UP and quit wasting our time..
.Name The Names if they will not profess themselves.

Dan, you don't come across as a "simple man" but rather as an angry man.
It might be that people just don't operate on your demanding time table. If there is a General Authority who wants to come public, I suspect it will be on his schedule, not yours.

It is not always possible to tell-all when answering a question. Many people ask Palmer if the GA's are believers. He would be betraying a confidence if he revealed names. It is for the GA to come out, not for Palmer to out him.

I think you are a bit harsh to think Palmer is wasting our time. Time will bring it all into focus, but for now it is interesting to hear Palmer's opinion.

Some General Authorities have had their calling for decades on end.

They call themselves "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators" and require, by raised hands, that good members sustain them as such.

The definition of their title and claim is that they literally see the heavens open, and that they literally see and talk with God face-to-face "as a man talketh with his friend".

After all of those decades, and among all of their companion GA's, THEY KNOW WHETHER THEY (OR ANY AMONG THEM) HAVE LITERALLY SEEN AND TALKED WITH GOD AND ANGLES -- OR NOT.

If not, they must either lie to the world, or lie to themselves, or be totally out of contact with reality.

Unlike ordinary members, GA's can know with certainty what HASN'T happened.

They have the power to know they're lying.

It's hard to suppress that kind of knowledge.

Edit:

ANGELS - not ANGLES - sorry.

If they lie they gain nothing and loose everything. They don't own the houses they sometimes live in, the cars they drive, the maids and butlers that clean their toilets and cook their meals, they don't pay for vacations, medical costs, or college for their kids and grandkids, they do not clean the pool in the backyard or change the oil on the Cadillac that they don't have to register or insure. They can get free clothes, free meals, free theater tickets, free sports event tickets, and they can fly off to a foreign place in a corporate jet, and stay for free. These guys don't even have to write the talks that they read from a teleprompter, so they don't have to think about it for a second.

I would go full retard for all that free stuff. most people would commit a crime to get that kind of wealth.

The catch is that you can kiss it all goodbye in less time than it would take to say "It ain't true".

Even if one of the 12 said those words today those would be the last words he would say as a wealthy man that gets all that free stuff for doing nothing but sitting around every day in a FREE office with a FREE and most likely hot secretary.

The theme of this message is FREE...in case you missed it.