She is standing on the edge of the abyss that sits between Mormonism and the rest of the world. She hardly goes to church anymore and if she does it is just for sacrament. My dad and brother go almost every week.

She was a convert when I was three and was raised Lutheran. She has told me before that there is a lot she doesn't agree with. She even told me that she almost resigned after she was baptized, but was worried about what my dad would do and think.

When I resigned I told her that I had many issues with what I had found. I told her I have a book that she can read if she wants to know more. I also told her that I would love to tell her what I found, but I respect her right to choose and will wait til she asks.

It has been months since our last talk about it and I am so frustrated. I know she is curious, but is scared. I am keeping my deal and not pushing, but she is better than TSCC.

She has a heart of gold and is a loving mother. When I first told her about my resignation she freaked a little and I ended up walking off. She called me up and could tell I was crying. She came right over and apologized. She promised that she wouldn't let religion get in the way and said she loved me too much to fight over things like this.

She really is amazing and I just want to get her out. I wrote a letter to her awhile back and have still not given it to her. She is one of my heroes and I hate to see her hanging precariously on the edge when I have the ability to help her.

Your mom sounds just exactly like me 30 years ago. I found out it was false and I was so scared and terrified, it took an additional 5 years of intense research and studying to finally make the emotional break. This was back before internet so I had to use the library. I had to mentally "jump off a cliff" in order to kill the person I was inside. Every morning I would wake up at the bottom of the cliff and I'd laboriously climb it all day long, just to wake up at the bottom the next morning. Once I finally made that leap, I discovered that I could fly and discovered there was a beautiful world underneath all the black clouds. Be patient with your mom. Have a shoulder for her and offer books but do be gentle. She may need lots of time to process. Oh, and do keep us posted. We are all here to help.

Carol

I hope she can find a way out. I will double cross my fingers and hands for you :)

Being a mom, and a convert, married to a true believer for decades, I know a bit about her very possible dilemma - when I was faced with the possibility of making a very difficult decision.

It took me years to finally,maybe a decade, for it all to jell and I made my move. I did it in steps. Nothing really final, just using wise timing until I knew my husband was able to support my decision. And he did.

He asked me what I wanted from him and all I said was:
live the llth Article of faith.
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
And he did.

We also: agreed to disagree.


In my view, it helps to stay out of this and only give support when she asks for it. It worked or me. Some of my grown children left before I did.

What she needs to know, if she is anything like the kind of mom I am is that you love her and will support her no matter what.
Knowing she has your unconditional love is paramount, in my view.

Now ... wait... and let it all take whatever time it takes. It's her choice, she will work it out the way she thinks is best.

Just my guess, of course, but it's how I did it.

The sad part is that my dad is a manipulative controlling person. He will never accept her decision to change her religion. And she hasn't learned to stand up for herself even though she holds all the power in the relationship. That is the most frustrating part.

fidget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The sad part is that my dad is a manipulative
> controlling person. He will never accept her
> decision to change her religion. And she hasn't
> learned to stand up for herself even though she
> holds all the power in the relationship. That is
> the most frustrating part.


Maybe she'll find the right time, the right opening to do what she really wants. There is probably a lot going on with her in how she manages her life and what is worth a fight and if a war can be won. She may weight the outcomes and decide that keeping the family together and doing the expected rituals are a higher priority at this point.

I know I managed to have married a man who was very willing to accept that I had a right to change my mind, especially since he married me as a convert of just a year. It was not all smooth sailing, especially at first, but he adjusted and knew that we could manage our relationship just fine. He also knew that I was not ever going to give up on our marriage/home/family, etc.!! I'm a bull dog about that! And we managed to get to a little over 50 years of marriage before he died.

Fidget, it might be that staying nominally Mormon works for her in terms of keeping the peace in her marriage to your dad. From your description, it sounds like she doesn't have much to do with the church anyway.

+1

The thing is that she is more involved than that because my dad is a quadriplegic and has two ward callings. She does the majority of the work. She also does the six hour Saturday cleanings about every other month.

It is draining her and her health is declining. It is not about keeping the peace.

I would work on those two specific issues then. It sounds like she's doing more than her share on both tasks.

fidget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing is that she is more involved than that
> because my dad is a quadriplegic and has two ward
> callings. She does the majority of the work. She
> also does the six hour Saturday cleanings about
> every other month.
>
> It is draining her and her health is declining. It
> is not about keeping the peace.


I would suggest that because your father is a quadriplegic she may have a strong sense of duty and responsibility and puts up with the way he is... I would bet there is a lot more to this situation and her decision to stay in the church on some level. She just needs to learn to say no when she can't handle things.
Maybe, right now, that is the encourage she needs.

Being a wife and homemaker is a tremendous task-much more than our society is willing to admit nowadays. Being a caregiver as well, to the degree your mom needs to be is also an overwhelmingly huge job. Doing six hours of cleaning on a Saturday for multi-billion dollar corporation is for someone like your mom is completely mind-boggling. Does not one 'leader' in her ward know the responsibilities your mom must have and if so, why do they not relieve her of this burden.

Oh the chains of Mormonism!


fidget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing is that she is more involved than that
> because my dad is a quadriplegic and has two ward
> callings. She does the majority of the work. She
> also does the six hour Saturday cleanings about
> every other month.
>
> It is draining her and her health is declining. It
> is not about keeping the peace.

Did you ever give her that letter you were working on?

No. I chickened out and am now regretting my decision.

My mother wanted to save me. I wanted to save my mother. There were times when she expressed doubt (she's a fundamentalist Christian), and then she felt shame.

Yeeearrrrrs later...we were in the same position, except I stopped trying to save her.

Ugh.

All I can say is that it sucks, it's sad, and it's frustrating. As a general rule, unless we're using manipulation or fear, we can *never* get people to do what they don't want to do.

Everybody needs space to work things through on their own. That's one hard lesson for parents to learn. The same goes for adult children.

I gave her the choice and have kept my side. I just wish she'd take the leap.

In essence we are at that point you are talking about. We aren't trying to save each other actively. I just think about it a lot.

Judging by what I've just read, it seems quite likely you mom will go over "the edge" soon anyway. Might take a couple of years, but she seems pretty close. I don't think she's going to do this for the rest of her life. Just give her time, maybe with a nudge here and there if the topic of conversation ever arises.

The title sounds like a sequel to "Throw Mama from the Train"

I so identify with your feelings. My mom is so close to the edge but she just will not take the leap. She converted at age 43. She still seems to hold some belief that Mormonism is still a legitimate church. I've taught her everything I know to show her otherwise and she totally believes me and is not at all happy about the lies, the mall, lack of Christ in traditions, and the abuses of members, etc. But she just will not let go. She doesn't attend church and is disgusted with the priesthood who only contact her to tell her she must go to a different ward now that she is in a retirement apartment outside of ward boundaries and she will be in a new ward. They have done this to her TWICE. She refused (she is too feeble to attend church anyway) and said if they move her away from the only members she knows (she's 86 for gosh sakes !!) she'll leave. So they moved her back to her old ward twice. Every time they get a new bishop he tries to follow the letter of the law and move her. Even the ward members think it's insane. Stupid bureaucratic corporation!! The only reason they accommodate her is she gives lots of money. If she wasn't paying I know they would drop her like a rock and give her no attention at all. But she just doesn't see it (or maybe that's the reason???) and keeps giving money. It's not like the money she gives will impoverish her but she really thinks it is going to a real church that helps people. I have pleaded with her to give the money to a reputable charity that really will do good works and opens their books to prove it. It is the last point I just can't get across. But in the end it is her money and I don't want to beat her up over it because she is a saint.

I think with your mother you need to take charge regarding the cleaning assignments. If her health is suffering and she is also caring for your dad it could really take a huge toll on her health. Apostate or not I'd be in the face of her bishop and let him know that if necessary you will stand at the door and refuse to let her go. And he better darn well find someone else to do his dirty work for him. She's no longer available for slave duty. And threaten legal or media action. They hate bad press and legal actions.

Good luck. I know exactly how exasperated you are.

Offer to accompany her to a Lutheran Church service. Maybe attending will rekindle something in her that she has had to squelch all these years.