Context: I gave him two topics of concern:
BoA facsimiles
second anointing
Bro:
May I ask a follow up question to your subtopics that will help me understand an approach:
In your perspective, do you view the riddled "problems and lies" as being in conflict with your belief of Christian theology, or just as an example of organized hypocrisy.
Me:
I find it helpful not to judge or value theology while investigating claims that may or may not be falsifiable. Logos and Mythos don't mix very well. That is not to say that theology is excluded from the evaluation of "organized hypocrisy" as a comparative measure.
Bro:
How much do you know about the "first" endowment?
Me:
Everything, including watching a recording of the ceremony made by a hidden camera. I'm well-versed in the different versions, revisions, and its connection to 19th-century Masonry. You must of experienced the pre-1990 version, complete with penalties, before your mission. If temple covenants are important to you, we should probably not investigate this topic further.
Bro:
Have you read the Book of Abraham completely in context?
Me:
Yes.
Bro:
In addition to your comments on the facsimile[s], do you find yourself at odds with script as well?
Me:
What do you mean by script and which document(s) are you referring to?
Bro:
You have made a bold statement that I find curious and would like to know more about, so I want to make sure my responses are, at the very least, thoughtful.
There are very few parts of the Gospel, or Mormonism if you will, that are ritualistic. Generally, it is a very straightforward, pragmatic approach to worship and religious observance. No ornate robes or chants, scepters or thrones, processions or homily. There are a few exceptions to this - most notably the ordinances of baptism and the Temple.
Me:
I couldn't disagree with you more. The LDS Church is not the Catholic or Lutheran Church, but the service, weekly schedule, and culture is filled with ritualism and routine. It is a young church (or perhaps I should say a church from the restoration movement), so the ritualism is masked by our modern cultural aesthetic. Replace robes with titles like deacon, teacher, priest, and high priest (with white shirts and ties and then suits), scepters for priesthood authority, hymns for chants, etc.

It is the "exceptions" you mention that are necessary for salvation and exaltation. The meat of LDS worship happens at the Temple and is quite commonly thought of as anything but pragmatic and straightforward, even by the general membership.
___________________________

I received no response to my comments. I later sent this:

I'm not sure if you ever want to continue our earlier discussion or not but since we last wrote, John Dehlin has posted some wonderful remarks in connection to a survey he authored at Utah State. I have been a "fan" of John's for quite some time. He helped me find the humanism in mormonism and gave me courage to continue pursuing relationships with our sisters. He has recently returned to active membership after years of inactivity and border-line apostasy.

He does a wonderful job at showing why members, like myself, have left the LDS church and why we continue to do so at a record pace. It's extremely informative and targets family members of people like me. He doesn't really dive into specifics, just the subjects. If you're interested, Wiki Dehlin and watch his presentation. It will be easier for us to communicate about all things LDS.

http://mormonstories.org/top-5-myths-and-truths-about-why-committed-mormons-leave-the-church/
_______________________________
Still no response. Is there anything else I can do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2013 04:05PM by fudley.

hmmm....you must have hit a hot button.
Often mormons will clam up when you give them something that they can't come to terms with. I'm guessing the BoA threw him for a loop. It makes JS out to be the fraud that he is. And the rest of the conclusions fall into place. It's a shocker.

It will be interesting to see what he does next.

Well done. I am sure he is pondering all you said. And I like how you tied in the white shirts, titles, scepters, etc. as examples of the LDS being very ritualistic afterall and having their own "show" of who they are.

I also cannot understand how Moroni is on top of every temple and yet it is not considered a graven image.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2013 04:41PM by fudley.

The first time I saw that big white marble Christus statue I was stunned. I'm like.....what happened to the graven image rule? That's a huge expensive graven image. I felt like I was in a Catholic church.

Then I went to the JS building. It's a graven image museum.

good point.