If he asks me how come I am no longer a member of the church I'm just going to say I don't even really think that my husband or father in law care why. Nobody ever bothered to ask me this question before. If it mattered to my husband and father in law then I assume they would have asked me why and then patiently bothered to address all my concerns. They have not bothered to listen to anything I have said on the matter or address any of my concerns. I assume from that they don't really care so it doesn't really matter.

By the way. My husband and I just exchanged this text.

Me: Are you really going to write huge checks to your church now?
They are already filthy rich
It's like giving money to the Trinity Broadcasting Network so Jan can buy her poodles an air conditioned trailer.

Him: Ignorant statement. Don't have time to fight with you

See how he dismisses me as ignorant? Would I be so bad if I packed my sh @@ it and left? I am so oppressed by this crap.

Love, snuckafoodberry, formally known as Suckafoo because suck made people not answer me.

Ps. He requests my presence when the 70 comes. I am gaining strength and assertiveness. I am a pathetic weakling. And not making you guys proud. I did pick up a dead bird today and threw it in the trash and that wasn't fun but I did it.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 02:03PM by snuckafoodberry.

Congratulations on picking up the dead bird.

Hahaha!! OMG. Thanks for finding the positive in this crap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 02:02PM by snuckafoodberry.

Maybe the whole bird episode is a metaphor...?

Best of luck to the 70 and leadership tag-team that have to visit you on your home turf (I'm sure you will play nice)!

I thought the same thing when I picked it up!! I am not going to bow!!! You guys are giving me strength. I've given this way too much thought already. I should be yawning like it's another boring day and it's nothing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 02:19PM by snuckafoodberry.

The church is like a dead bird. You can let it sit there, rot and start to stink. Or you can throw it away.

Ok, go back and read the first sentence you wrote. When you get to "If..." just. stop. Please stop. You are making up fantasies about what you want to have happen. This thing will not happen. No GA, ever, in the history of mankind, has EVER asked an exmo why she left. Because they don't care. Because, in their minds, there is NO valid reason for leaving.

Read this again and again and repeat after me.

Nobody will ask me why I left the church. Nobody.

You are correct; they don't really care and so the whys and wherefores don't really matter.

Now I do see how your DH's text was a bit dismissive, but try to be fair. He's working right now and you just texted him with a "hey let's you and me fight 'cause I don't have anything else to do right now." I would dismiss you too because that seems like an inappropriate time to bring up the issue of tithing and a rather adversarial way of doing it. If you want to pick a fight, you'll get one.

The most important information in your post was in the PS. Your DH is inviting this 70 over to reactivate/reconvert you. Again, NOBODY will ASK WHY you left. All they will want to do is talk AT you until you crumble in submission and do what they want you to do, which is shut up, keep your head down, and go to church. Those choices, as well as the choice to remain married or not, are still up to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 02:10PM by dogzilla.

Well to be fair, that money he is giving away effects my life. And he started it. Plus, PLUS!! He always runs away when confronted with anything. He's a big fat baby.

I hear you and completely understand where you are coming from! It's so much harder to do this when we are battling against the people we love. The stakes are higher. My DH is the same way, and tries to flip around a debate by attacking me (or just running out of the room). We were watching an old Star Trek: TNG the other night where this guy refuses to debate and Data says, "Is your stance so weak that it cannot withstand a debate?" I gave DH the eye and he just ignored me, lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 02:54PM by AngelCowgirl.

He started it?

Sweetie... you aren't five.

dogzilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He started it?
>
> Sweetie... you aren't five.


+1. I'm sorry to say, that was my immediate thought. It doesn't matter who "started it." You can be big enough to walk away from it.

Hmmm. I've tried tactics that didn't work. This one doesn't seem to be working with hubby. Maybe you're like me, need to try a different way to reach him, on some level.

You can attend the meeting, at his request. You don't have to say anything.

Then you can have a talk with hubby about what you feel strongly about and why.

The more calm and careful I was, the more accepting hubby was. Eventually, I understood that I needed to be respectful of his rights to his religion for whatever reason, and just let it be. I had to learn to let go of what I could not control.

Our marriage, family, home, investment of time and energy and partnership, emotionally, financially, etc. (which all equals love, by the way) was not worth messing with.

He lived the 11th Article of Faith and we had an agreement to: Agree to Disagree!
That's how it worked for me.

Thanks. I'm thinking I want to respect his faith. I really wouldn't care if he would accept me for my non faith. I don't see why we have to both be the same. Really. I sometimes imagine what it would be like to be ok how I am to someone. I would accept him how he is if he would think I'm okay just the way I am. I could give him that in return. My mom and dad did that for each other. He was proud of her for her intelligence. They didn't always have to think the same; in fact he admired her for her differences. I just want the same for us.

My DH and I both left, but as I decided I wasn't OK with the patriarchy, I was not OK with bowing my head and saying yes, it took a toll on our relationship. Especially because we were/are both dealing with our own crap on top of this. I knew what the church wanted me to be, but after leaving, I did not know what I wanted to be. It has been very hard - there are things you can't choose now because of choices you made earlier, there are patterns and expectations that have developed, and new ideas that can be threatening to others. Somehow you have to fit them in the puzzle.

I've had the same frustration with feeling like my intellect is less than/questionable. Yes, I sometimes do ditzy things but I also know I am intelligent and well balanced overall. I have had to decide what comments/attitudes are OK in light of reality and having a sense of humor. At the same time, I have drawn new boundaries as to what is offensive and demeaning and have defended those boundaries.

Hugs to you for strength through this difficult time. It is so hard when how the ideal of how things should be does not mesh with how things are. I hope you and DH can redefine and become stronger.

Oh, and dead birds (and pretty much anything traditionally defined as "gross") don't bother me a bit. I'd help you any time with that. Can you deal with potato bugs? Those are something that totally freaks me out!

snuckafoodberry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks. I'm thinking I want to respect his faith.
> I really wouldn't care if he would accept me for
> my non faith. I don't see why we have to both be
> the same. Really. I sometimes imagine what it
> would be like to be ok how I am to someone. I
> would accept him how he is if he would think I'm
> okay just the way I am. I could give him that in
> return. My mom and dad did that for each other. He
> was proud of her for her intelligence. They
> didn't always have to think the same; in fact he
> admired her for her differences. I just want the
> same for us.


Yes. I agree that it's not necessary to be the same. I like what you said about your parents. Maybe it would help if you shared that with your husband. Once I got it in my mind that I could not control or change my husband's beliefs/faith, it was much easier to just respect our differences! That has worked well with the whole family.

Just have the 70 call me. :D

I'd love nothing more.

I have found that debating with TBM's just isn't worth it. Instead I explain that it all comes down to a difference of how we interpret the truth. They interpret it based on feelings and emotions that they interpret as the holey ghost. I interpret truth based on facts and logic that I subject to critical thinking. We can't discuss the facts because their leadership forbids them from looking at all of the truth (I like to throw in that dig). Since they are not as informed as I am about some areas of the church, it's best that we don't go there (another dig). I usually close by mentioning that it is best that we all just live by the 11th Article of Faith. So far I have pretty good luck with this approach. I should add that I say it in an ultra confident and friendly way.

In addition to my above post I would like to add that if the TBM's persist, I remind them that we are trending into shakey ground because their leadership requires blind obedience instead of an analysis of all of the facts. Also, I don't want to take from their testimony because if they knew what I do about tbeir church, they might loose their faith just as I have. This usually scares them off and plants seeds at the same time.

Okay, here's my two cents. I agree that you need to be respectful of his beliefs if you want him to respect yours. Even if your only reason for doing it is so you can point it out to him when he criticizes yours. The text you sent him did come across as picking a fight. The tithing issue does suck, it really does. I'd suggest a compromise to him. He pays tithing on half your income. If he wants to make your marriage work, he's going to have to make concessions.

The fact that he "requests your presence" sends up a big red flag for me. That plus the fact that FIL is coming screams penishood ambush to me. What I would do is tell him that you are fine being there to support him as long as your personal boundaries are respected, and give him the following guidelines:


1. This is a meeting for HIM, with HIS religious leader. Your religious beliefs are not up for discussion.

2. If you are made to feel uncomfortable at any time, you will excuse yourself.

3. If they start speaking poorly of you to him, he will ask them to leave.

He is the one who wants you at this meeting. If he can't agree to ensure your comfort during it, you can't agree to be there. Simple as that.

I know just sit there with a note pad. Like you are taking shorthand. It will give you the upper hand because everyone will want to know what the hell you are writing! Then IF they ask make sure you have something important that you want to say or ask. By the way, I like the name suckafoo. It had a funny ring to it...

I do this a different way:

I bought a volume enhancing, noise canceling microphone for my iPhone. I turn on voice memo and record what they are saying. Pick it up every 5 or so minutes, look at it and 'sigh' or frown. Then tell them you just have to take this call... and walk out...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2013 06:10PM by John_Lyle.

I really like that answer - nice.

"Suck made people not answer me."
Says who? I always liked the name suckafoo!

I might go with a very loud FUCK YOU when he walks in the door, but then that's just me.

Print off that letter to CES and hand it to him and tell him that is why you left. If he refuses to read it tell him why should you listen to what he says if he will not even look at your concerns?