We live in Utah County, a place that can seem like the central hub for the Mormon gossip train at times. My husband works with 2 people who live a few blocks from us and are both TBM, thankfully in a separate ward (in the same ward together though and are good friends.) Lets call them D and J. About a week ago D was complaining to my husband that he didn't have enough time to get to his church meetings during the week. My husband responded by saying, "Just stop going." The guy replied with, "It's not like I can just quit and walk away from the church." To which my husband replied, "It's not that hard I did." This was followed by a brief conversation that we resigned from the church.

D was the only person outside of my parents that we told and I'm actually surprised my husband mentioned it. The bishop told a few people when he received our resignation from membership services, which turned into several people approaching us about it. Something we had tried to avoid. Anyways I'm rambling. So D told J at the first opportunity he had. J's 8 year old daughter is good friends with our 8 year old daughter. (We don't care for J and his wife, but we haven't let that affect our kids relationship. J has also been pushy over the years about us being involved in the church, the past year he has finally gotten the idea we aren't going.) So after being in California for a few days my husband returned to work to have J questioning why we resigned. I received similar questions from his wife. We both stated that we don't believe the church is true and that was that. Or so I thought.

Yesterday my husband was approached by J saying that his daughter really wanted Abbie (our daughter) to go to church and activities with his daughter. My husband didn't really respond besides saying he would talk to me about it. When we questioned our daughter about it she said that J's daughter had asked her to go to church and activities with her because her mom and dad said she should.

The point of my ramble. This is not the first person who has gone after our children after we left the church. It makes me so mad that they would put their daughter up to this knowing full well our opinions on the church. Neither of our kids can understand the extent of our feelings, though we have talked to our daughter about us not believing its true. I once had an argument with my biological mothers husband about the truth behind the church. In that argument he stated that they have to get the kids while they are young otherwise it's to hard to reach them when they get older. At the time I didn't think much of it. Now it appears to be something they teach everyone. Anyways I just needed to vent to people who can understand my frustration. Trying to talk to some TBM about the flaws you see in the church is like trying to empty the ocean one drop at a time.

That's rude of J to do that. But his daughter was honest in telling your daughter that she 'had' to do this in order to stay in good graces with her parents. I'm guessing that your daughter told J's daughter 'no' she doesn't want to do this- what kid in today's world would rather sit for 3 hrs and play some lame games or sing some songs when they could be playing video or computer games, or even lego!

Kids are bright nowadays. Read them some bible stories- they get it right away. So they get bored quickly at church. So even if your daughter went with them once to church, i'm pretty sure she'd come home and talk about how boring it was. But maybe that'd be the end of the friendship because as soon as your daughter told J's daughter that she's not going back because it's boring and she doesn't like it, J's daughter may have the same request, being secretly bored, but not having the guts to say so to her dad. However since she AND Abbie are bored, there's more clout to her attitude. (If she had talked about how bored she was, I'm sure the parents had countered it with: all the other children are there, and they aren't bored or some version of that.)

Now if this were a more mainstream church where they DO think about the kids and how to interest them, this going to church with a friend could become a problem unless you believe in Christianity but just haven't found a church as of yet.

The Mormon church primary activities are so boring as they are all now scripted so very few people can make them into fun for the kids, which also may explain why no one wants to work in primary anymore.

I'd be more concerned about the girl's friendship- if that is of concern to you, than that your daughter will get too interested. Now, YW may still have more interesting activities on Weeknights, so that could be a concern for you, when the girls get to be that age.

But you are right about being pissed off at J and his wife, since you have specifically told them you aren't interested in the church anymore. If they just want to do their missionary work so they wont be condemned in the next life, (you know the scripture that says you're condemned for all those you could have converted, that you didn't talk to) you can say that you understand very well your 'condemnation' and are quite comfortable with it. If they are zealous missionaries, then maybe it's time for your daughter to find other friends. That wont be fair for J's daughter, but such is life.

I'm pretty sure that the reason we didn't have many friends on our street was that my parents were/ are zealous missionaries and bug everyone on the street until no one invites them anywhere anymore.

I would explain to your child that the family is not Mormon and therefore does not go to that church. Let her know that it's fine to have friends from all churches, but that doesn't mean she needs to go to church with them. They can play outside of church.

8 years old is the age that they really start pushing to have kids get baptized. You must realize that's what they're after. They hope to indoctrinate your daughter so that she will begin pestering you to let her get baptized.

Personally, I'd nip that in the bud now. What did you end up telling the guy at work?

Tell them you'd like to take their kids to another church and watch their eyebrows go up.

Excellent!

+1

Going through our son is how we were reactivated.

It started with neighbors with a boy the same age asking if our son could attend with them. The plan is to get the kid to want to attend, and eventually getting your child to ask YOU to take 'em to church.

What's that, you say? You left the church.

I smell a mission field!

Ick!

It's even more "fun" when the people going after your kids are related.

My wife & parents have formed a coalition to ensure that any indoctrination they miss from their evil father will be covered by the grandparents.

Including, but not limited to, a week long church history tour this summer with grandma and grandpa.

This very thing terrifies me :-( especially when my 8 to wants to go be with his "friends" at church also I'd like to punch J in the face.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2013 04:05AM by philipafarewell.

I think you need to protect your child by speaking to the adults. Either your husband could have a word with the mormon man or you could talk to the TBM woman.

I also suggest to talk to your daughter and give her a lesson in peer pressure. Tell her to she has a right to say no to anyone who wants her to join their religion, use drugs, or shop lift. Those are activities which aren't acceptable in your family.

Let her know that her friend and every other mormon have a right to their beliefs but they don't have a right to manipulate or judge those with differing ideas. Say you want to know if this kind of coercion happens again.

You are just raising them.

When we first went inactive, our kids were just about to turn 8. We still believed--left for different reasons. The whole primary presidency came by to talk to our kids and, while we were standing there, told them we were bad parents for not taking them to church and they would like to come by and pick them up and take them. Little did they know--that turned my kids against the church. We were so dumbfounded, we just stood there and said nothing.

They actually told your kids you were bad parents, in front of you?! What jackasses!

When my kids were asked by their Mormon friends, at the same age as your daughter, to go to church with them, they responded, "We'll go to your church if you come to ours first." That question was never brought up again.

Growing up Lutheran, that's what I'd tell Mormon friends and it worked to get them to stop asking me.

The cult ALWAYS goes after the kids!

I have horror stories. When our family went inactive (with a clear "no contact" directive), youth leaders and ward children stalked one of my little girls right into a psych ward. My daughter, Sasha, was adopted from Russia and came with a host of severe emotional/behavioral problems. Her IQ was 68. She did not have the ability to distinguish between fake fellowshipping and genuine friendship. Constant love-bombing sent her right over the edge.

One particular girl wrote Sasha several letters saying she "missed her" and was her "best friend." (This from someone who never particularly gave Sasha the time of day at church). Every time a letter came, my daughter would beg and plead and cry to go back to church. She accused me of "keeping her from her best friend." Sasha would go into a total meltdown, raging tantrum every time this girl contacted her. One day my daughter became so angry with me that she ran away. When the police picked her up, she was so out of control that they had to handcuff her tiny wrists to get her into the patrol car. She was transported to a psychiatric hospital on a 72-hour hold for her safety.

This incident happened after months of aggressive requests to local ward leaders to leave our children alone. We finally resigned from the church as a family while Sasha was still in the psych ward. I'm sorry to report that, even after resignation, we were still harassed for years.

I've *hated* the church ever since that time. Mormons don't understand that their "friendshipping" efforts - particularly towards vulnerable children - can come across as inappropriate, threatening, and even dangerous.

I wish I could say more about my situation, but it turned into a legal issue and I am no longer able to discuss our situation publicly.

;o)

I'm so sorry this happened to you and your family.

Thank you philipa. You must be new. I tell this story on Rfm often because I WANT others to know how intrusive and scary and the church can be. You should have been around in 2007 when I blew up the board with almost daily stories of LDS harassment. Ha! Nobody goes after my kids. Local leaders picked the *wrong* Mama to mess with!!

;o)

Not that your really want to do this, but you could


Tell J's kid Santa Claus isn't real. It's just made up my mommies and daddies.

If she says she knows that tell her Nephites aren't real. It's just made up my mommies and daddies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2013 10:38AM by politicaljunkie.

I love it! My kids have been told their whole lives Santa isn't real, because I wanted to be completely honest with my kids (I know the irony of it!) So, I think we can use this tactic at home too. Incidentally my sweet MIL cried when we told her that... I can only imagine how much worse it will be when she finds out we're not into Mormonism anymore!

That's just not right. Just tell your kid to say "no thanks", I don't want to go to a fake church. It will make the other kid ask J about the "fake church". Kids are curious. You can also give your kid ammunition to answer any church invites.

Yep - this is how they behaved with my kids. No one even asked me why I wasn't at church. Nor did they make even the slightest effort to reactivate me. In almost 5 years, one former LDS friend invited me to a Women's Conference broadcast and dinner. I don't know why I said yes but she ignored me to talk to the Stake RS presidency the whole time. Another time a woman walked up to me in a parking lot and told me she wanted me to come back to church. I had NO idea who she was and still haven't figured it out. Those were the only two attempts in almost 5 years. I'm obviously the "bad mom" who is leading her kids astray.

With the kids, however, it's been relentless, creepy, predatory stalking. Constant invitations to ward activities. Our stake is doing trek this year and I've had 9 different people call and invite my kids - after I told them that my son would be in South America with his Spanish Department tour that week and DD and I were going to go up north and see Grandma while he was gone. They just won't take no for an answer. People who I thought were my friends waiting to catch my kids alone and offer them a ride to church. HT's who waited til I left the room to answer the phone then offered to get the kids a subscription to the New Era. They never even asked but assumed I didn't want the kids at church and THEN made a supreme effort to go behind my back and get the kids to church. The one exception to this is that it got back to Bishop Jackwagon that we didn't want our kids interviewed alone with any member of the bishopric and the 2nd counselor wanted to ask my daughter if she'd be a counselor in the Beehive presidency. Second counselor asked me if he could interview her and said they would stand in the hall for the interview in full view of others. That was the only person in the ward who ever showed the slightest respect for parental rights. The first counselor went up to my son when he was sure I was nowhere around and said "I know you have trouble getting to YM's so if you ever need a ride to an activity or church, just give me a call." Bless my teenage son, he looked the guy in the eye and said "No, that's OK - my mom is happy to give me a ride any time I want - she told me." DS said the guy looked shocked. DS also lost all respect for this counselor, especially after I spun the situation and pointed out that if DS decided to continue with Mormonism, that he'd have to contend with people like this who would go after his children. I love it when Mormons slit their own throats - so to speak.

TBMs have told me that youth fellowshipping is now their most successful baptism tool. They have their kids invite non-mo friends to activities and that's where they catch them.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2013 02:46PM by josie.

Here's a conversation I would loved to hear from your 8 year old. IF I get married, I want my father to walk me down the isle. I want music and flowers. I want all my friends and family to witness my wedding and not have to pay 10% of their income to do so (or be mormons). Or maybe your daughter would like a wedding on the beach or in the mountains. After all, what fun is a 5 minute ceremony where you're wearing ugly green aprons and your hudband is in a baker's hat?

I remember a you tube video of someone's wedding where they were dancing down the aisles. Maybe your daughter would actually like to have fun at her wedding or champaign at the reception?

Or you could show your daughter a picture of a bride in temple clothes or a beautiful wedding gown and ask which one she would like to wear? Would mormon parents like that conversation?

How about a cute sleeveless dress for your daughter (or some other sleeveless outfit). Or maybe cute underwear? Let her known she can't wear such outfits as a mormon. Show her a pair of garments. What if your daughter told her 8 year old friend, "You'll have to wear ugly underwear when you grow up."

I am so not looking forward to any of this. The last time I was at church it was Easter Sunday and my youngest DS was screaming and crying and would not let me put him down to go to Primary (now I don't blame the poor kid)He's four and of course the my 1 yo DD started to melt down and wanted to be held. One woman came to my aide and helped with the baby but, it was so bad I just took all of the kids with me and left. Next day I got an email telling me next time to just leave the other kids there and they would take care of them until I came back to get them. Normally I wouldn't care but there was such a tone of condescension and judgment that it pissed me off.

Nor do they have a right to tell you to "just leave" your kids and expect them to allow some other adults to do your mothering. The care of children should never be sacrificed. We all have a perfect right to walk out of a church with our kiddies if that is what best suits their needs.