"The amazing thing is that every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust. You couldn’t be here if stars hadn’t exploded, because the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution - weren’t created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way they could get into your body is if those stars were kind enough to explode. So, forget Jesus. The stars died so that you could be here today."- Lawrence Krauss

intjsegry Wrote:
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> "The amazing thing is that every atom in your body
> came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in
> your left hand probably came from a different star
> than your right hand. It really is the most poetic
> thing I know about physics: You are all stardust.
> You couldn’t be here if stars hadn’t exploded,
> because the elements - the carbon, nitrogen,
> oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for
> evolution - weren’t created at the beginning of
> time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of
> stars, and the only way they could get into your
> body is if those stars were kind enough to
> explode. So, forget Jesus. The stars died so that
> you could be here today."- Lawrence Krauss

I might also forget my late, loving parents, and the kid
who pulled me out of the irrigation ditch when I was four,
and the first girl who ever loved me, and Shakespeare, and
Bach, and Gandhi.... But I choose not to forget.

I choose to remember.

As for the long-exploded stars, they continue on in my
bloodstream and synapses -- an evolution -- they ARE me.

UD

Does this mean you believe Jesus was an actual person who died for you?

intjsegry Wrote:
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> Does this mean you believe Jesus was an actual
> person who died for you?

I remember the realization that came over me, in hearing
the challenge, to be perfect, as God was perfect -- the
disarming effects of that challenge -- the understanding
that, despite a Pharisaical adherence to 999 out of 1000
points of religious law, I never would be perfect. I knew
that my self righteousness would never reach that pinnacle
from which I could look down upon another being and judge
him a "sinner."

I remember the change of heart and mind that came from
encounters with other parables and parable-teachers. I
remember the 1979 darshan with the Dali Lama in Houston
and the utter bliss of perfect freedom atop the highest
mountain I'll ever climb.

Does any of that require a Jesus? I think not. If he lived
then he died, as all living things eventually die. Did he
die "for" me? No more (and no less) than you die for me
and I die for you. Life is one great ball of wax and we
sentient beings are stuck together in it, like it or not.

Uncle Dale

Love it.

intjsegry Wrote:
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> "... It really is the most poetic
> thing I know about physics: You are all stardust..."- Lawrence Krauss

I've always found that idea far more beautiful, compelling and comforting than ideas about gods and Jesus.

Great quote!

And life affirming... awe inspiring... looking up the sky has a whole new meaning. Wonderment, inspiration, a feeling of infinite joy and desire to explore, insatiable knowledge... not wondering if some eternal judge or parental unit is looking down my shirt.

But don't forget the fridge. You're gonna need some ice.

Didn't we learn that the original Jesus was a cosmic Jesus, who died for our sins, when a bunch of demons put him to death, and that the idea of an earthly Jesus was actually an idea that came about later in Christianity?

forbiddencokedrinker Wrote:
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> Didn't we learn that the original Jesus was a
> cosmic Jesus, who died for our sins, when a bunch
> of demons put him to death, and that the idea of
> an earthly Jesus was actually an idea that came
> about later in Christianity?

The idea of a savior-god pre-dated the time of Jesus son of Mary,
but the belief in an after-life for the common peasant was just
beginning to take hold in his day and age.

The merging of a dying-living god with the expected Jewish
Messiah may have entered a few heads in Jesus' day, but I
doubt that belief was very widespread until well after the
implosion of Temple Judaism after 70 C.E.

Would have Jesus the Galilean preacher have understood the
concept of a cosmic Christ? I have no idea -- but it would
have been a new teaching for most of the Jews around him.

That is -- postulating the historicity of the said man Jesus.

UD

forbiddencokedrinker Wrote:
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> Didn't we learn that the original Jesus was a
> cosmic Jesus, who died for our sins, when a bunch
> of demons put him to death, and that the idea of
> an earthly Jesus was actually an idea that came
> about later in Christianity?

The idea of an ANE savior-god pre-dated the time of Jesus
son of Mary, but the belief in an after-life for the common
peasant was just beginning to take hold in his day and age.

The merging of a dying-living god with the expected Jewish
Messiah may have entered a few heads in Jesus' day, but I
doubt that belief was very widespread until well after the
implosion of Temple Judaism after 70 C.E.

Would have Jesus the Galilean preacher have understood the
concept of a cosmic Christ? I have no idea -- Maybe a Philo,
way over in Alexandria, might have pondered such stuff, but
it would have been a new teaching for most 1st century Jews.

UD