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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 01:50AM

Of course...she's a mormon. She sounds like my TBM ex-wife though my ex was too lazy to get a degree...

Here's the link to the article.

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Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 02:08AM

Not dissing your post at all. I'm just personally bored by sociopaths. I realize some people find them fascinating. I did, too, for a while, after being abused and nearly ruined by one. It's like there are two guys--or gals, as the case may be: one who puts a lot of effort into faking being a great person and may appear successful, and another who doesn't care if everyone knows he or she is the biggest loser ever to walk the earth. They both lie their asses off, make everyone around them miserable, and worse.

I do think it's helpful to learn that they exist and how to spot them--preferably not the hard way, like I did. But you couldn't pay me to read a book full of this woman's bullshit. I couldn't even get through the article.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2013 03:02AM by munchybotaz.

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Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 10:29AM

+1. I don't find them fascinating, I find them boils on the ass of society.

I had a friend who has always claimed she was a sociopath (she's a good 1000 miles away now). After knowing some real sociopaths, she's probably more along the lines of BPD. True sociopaths are probably not deep or self-aware enough to know it. It's more likely she *wants* to see herself as a sociopath because it sounds more dangerous.

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Posted by: FormerLatterClimber ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 01:29PM

Itzpapalotl Wrote:
> +1. I don't find them fascinating, I find them
> boils on the ass of society.

Exactly! It's possible this person is in the antisocial personaliity disorder category but I just don't see a sociopath or even a Narcissist advertising their PD. On the other hand, I have met borderlines who do this.

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Posted by: MCR ( )
Date: May 18, 2013 10:45AM

It's like vampires. It's just boring. I did get through her article, then at the end it says the article is an excerpt from her forth-coming book. A division of Random House is publishing an entire book of this BS?! Basically, I'm a vain, contemptuous person, who wrote a book designed to take your money away from you and give it to me so I can revel in how superior I am and how stupid and pathetic you are--and I'll even tell you up-front what I'm doing so your fawning fascination with me gives me even more pleasure when I cash the check. That's the book (full of scintillating details, which are all made up, because she admits, again, right up-front, that she's a total liar), and people are going to read it?!

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 09:02AM

The more I study the subject, the more I believe that true sociopaths are rare, but that narcissist are a dime a dozen, and that many of those can blur the line.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 09:09AM

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Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 11:04AM

It's true the diagnostic criteria are full of holes and overlap with one another. But if you add up the estimates of 1 or 2 in 100 for the various personality disorders--psychopathy as defined by Robert Hare, plus each of the cluster B disorders--and we're talking about a significant number of people. Even just 1 in 100 translates to a pretty good chance of meeting several and becoming entangled with one over the course of a lifetime.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2013 11:04AM by munchybotaz.

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Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 11:19AM

Also don't forget, there's a scale of sociopathy, just like anything else. Not all are the violent criminals that TV portrays them. From subjective experience, the 1 in 100 sounds low. 1 in 25 sounds pretty accurate though.

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Posted by: jl1718 ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 09:58AM

She obviously needs to stay away from guns.

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Posted by: Glo ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 10:14AM

What I found interesting about this article is the horrifying Mormon home life she describes.

She had a burst appendix but her parents did not take her to a doctor for a week because they had let the health insurance lapse.

But I would be willing to bet that her parents paid their tithes to the Mormon church faithfully.

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Posted by: Mr. Neutron ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 10:34AM

Interesting quote. I think the relentless instruction on forgiveness and being nice to everyone probably helped me to trust the wrong person, and I ended up dating one of them. This woman teaches Sunday School and no one sitting there apparently has any awareness of how awful she is.

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Posted by: Yaqoob ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 10:41AM

I was the victim of a female TMB sociopath this last year, almost ruined my marriage. Sounds weird to be a 40 year old, middle class white male, and a "victim" - but its true.

Her hubs was on the stake high council, and he protected me from the missionaries and home teachers by telling the local ward leadership to leave me alone, that he would handle the home teaching of me and my family. We worked together, would also be thought of as "friends." His wife, a raving lunatic, for some reason hated my wife - she started to sneak into our lives, particularly mine. She would confide in me how bad she hated her hubby in the HC, and how he was not interested in her physically or sexually. Then one day, she sent me a nekkid picture of herself. I was shocked. Then she sent more, and she wrote me the dirtiest pornographic emails any woman on earth could devise. She would tell me how she heard that my wife hated me (lies), and how I deserved more. Then, she would ask me to do favors for her and her family - watch the kids, take her hubby to the movies. Her hubby, oblivious to her insanity, (while all this was going on last summer) even told me how bad he disliked her and asked me to take HER out on platonic dates. Old crazy started asking my wife to train for marathons/10ks etc.

It is my fault that I didn't stop it, I know... alright!!!

So then, after I did ask her to stop sending me dirty pics and dirty emails, she wrote a couple of very nasty long letters and then sent more "close ups" of herself - then she managed to intentionally get herself caught by her husband, and he showed up at my house with the evidence.

The amazing part is that she would tell me how much she enjoyed being perfect little Mormon wife on one side, and an absolute whore on the other. Don't know what became of that family, and thank god they are gone. Wifey was real mad at me for a while...ended up in marriage counseling and we addressed a lot of issues in our marriage that we hadn't been aware of previously. Our marriage is great now and the healing is almost done.

What I didn't know that crazy sociopaths, who exhibited almost all of the behaviors of the woman in the OPs opening thread, do actually exist. (I always thought such people were just in movies...)

The lesson I learned is, that despite what horny 40 year old men might think to the contrary, any woman who will send pics of her stuff, and write custom porn for you, is married, has 4 kids, and pretends to be TBM and "righteous" is a crazy a$$ lunatic, or tries to sleep with you is CRAZY. It had been a fantasy of mine, and then I realized only crazy women act like that... :-)

I try to tell my wife that I am a victim and she slaps me. All the same, I hate the church.

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Posted by: Mr. Neutron ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 10:50AM

Yaqoob Wrote:
> I try to tell my wife that I am a victim and she
> slaps me.

I'm not trying to de-rail the thread, but physical violence is not acceptable. I don't care if you slept with "crazy a$$ lunatic," it is simply not acceptable. That was a terrible thing for your wife to do.

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Posted by: Yaqoob ( )
Date: May 18, 2013 09:12AM

Rhetorically/figuratively slaps me.

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Posted by: Makurosu ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 10:46AM

Sorry, but she's a piece of shit, and I clicked out of the article during the first paragraph. She's not even that rare or unique. People like that are a dime a dozen and they are a lesser form of humanity who don't deserve a minute of my day beyond my discovery of what they are.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: May 18, 2013 12:41PM

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Posted by: Pathway ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 11:35AM

What I found interesting is her comment near the end of her article that the LDS Church "is a sociopath's dream" I couldn't agree more.

If anything, it helps to foster such behaviors as well. Everything is so externally focused in spite of lip service to the internal.

Are you paying your tithing, going to the temple, going to church, magnifiying your callings, holding FHE, and a million other actions? You can do all these things and benefit from being perceived as a TBM, yet all the while believing something different, or holding a double life, or just being evil while everyone perceives them to be good.

Even repentance seldom gets to the heart of the matter. You "earn" repentance by your actions. Temple reccomend gold card taken away, Go w/o the sacrament for X months, aren't allowed to pray in meetings or give a talk in Sacrament meeting...It's easy for a sociopath who is "caught" to just do the penance without really changing internally and look as if they had repented and are now back to being the righteous TBM.

It's the ones who have integrity about their doubts on the church, or perhaps how women or gays or intellectuals are treated, who ask questions that cut too close to home in an honest search for truth, who eat out on Sundays that are judged more harshly by the LDS community.

I can see how a sociopath could easily take advantage of such a group being held up by many as uber-righteous on the one hand while being evil inside.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 11:39AM

Wow. The mormons are really having their 'moment' aren't they?

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Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 11:42AM

I'm sure the sociopath who started it thought so, too. :)

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Posted by: I believed this all, once... ( )
Date: May 18, 2013 12:31PM

Bahahaha! First Jodi Arias and now sociopath Jamie Lund.

Yes, the TSSC is finally getting the national attention it deserves.

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 01:17PM

this is the same chick from my Dr. Phil thread. She's certainly been making the rounds lately!

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Posted by: WinksWinks ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 01:49PM

That's what I was wondering about on your thread! Yup! :D

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Posted by: AnotherEmily ( )
Date: May 17, 2013 09:54PM

Sorry if this has been posted already, but it looks like the self-professed sociopath law prof was recently hired by BYU Law:

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Posted by: GyPsychic ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 09:27PM

I'm an educated, Mormon gal and after reading this article I realized that I too am a sociopath. I do actually believe I can become like Heavenly Father and Mother. I pay tithing and teach Sunday School. I had a difficult childhood and an abusive father. I have felt the urge to kill and have been tempted to cheat...I've even had some perverted thoughts!! I used to hit my brother with no remorse when we were kids...until he got bigger than me. I stole money from my Dad's change jar, and even lied to my mom about leaving the curling iron on. Now, year's later, I'm an addictions counselor and mother of 7. After reading this, I am convinced that not only am I a sociopath, but so are all of my clients, most of my kids as well as half the people who live on my block. I'm so glad I finally have a diagnosis that explains why I behave the way I do. Thank You Psychology Today for offering this spectacular insight into my own psyche.

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Posted by: Yaqoob ( )
Date: May 18, 2013 11:44AM

I was hoping that shed be better looking.

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: May 18, 2013 01:50PM

She is a perfect fit for the BYU law program. I'm sure the TBMs would love her. She would be the perfect law professor to teach aspiring mormon to "win" the game without feeling remorse for being unethical. A mormon legal dream come true!

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: May 18, 2013 02:00PM

And now we've hit on the real difference between Mormons and other Christians.

Mormons are not the least big interested in the internal landscape other than a burning in the bosom which might cause you to join their cult and hand over your money for years.

I know this for a fact because when I was a speaker on the stake lecture circuit for Women's Self-Esteem days, the whole goal was to make the women more functional. Not happier, not more spiritual...more functional. Think about that for a religion.

As long as you do x, God is bound and must give you y. If you do not receive y, act as if you did and no one will know the difference. The men who are the best at this rise in the priesthood. That's why the test for apostleship is really if the man is "all in," meaning will he obey even if it's morally wrong?

An aggressive old boys club now exercising its power politically by leaning on members to "fight evil." Sounds like a horror movie of a dystopian future, doesn't it?


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Posted by: shannon ( )
Date: May 18, 2013 05:05PM

I predict a court-o-luv in "Sister" Lund's future . . . oops, there goes that cushy BYU professorship!

And, exactly how does tenure work at a religious university anyhow? If they kick you out of the club, via excommunication, do you have any job security left? Or does BYU's employment contract stipulate upfront that excommunication is grounds for termination?

Oh, and I noted the famous last name - Lund - a family of prolific Mormon authors. I wonder if there is any connection.


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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: May 18, 2013 07:46PM

You are too funny, Shannon


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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: May 19, 2013 02:00AM

My understanding of a sociopath is somebody who is aemoral--a person who operates without a sense of morality. They usually have little or no sense of guilt. They can lie with a straight face (this may be "the predator's gaze" mentioned) and often pass polygraph tests, because, being free of emotions, they don't register stress.

Oddly, they may have a sense of ethics, rules, and boundaries. So LDS may be an environment that nurtures low-level sociopaths: as long as they obey a specified set of church requirements (garment, tithing, sacrament meetings, etc.) they're "okay," and never mind the moral rot in the soul. Interesting that she's a lawyer, too: as long as what she does isn't in violation of professional "ethics," she can be otherwise immoral or aemoral.

CS Lewis described the avaricious businessman who could foreclose on widows, but considered himself ethically "a good man" because he did it legally, and besides--he would never be so unsporting as to shoot a sitting bird!

This is the difference between the the Pharisee who prayed loud and publically (" I thank thee, that I am not as other men are...") and the publican (" God be merciful to me a sinner.") The first was all appearance; the other was authentic devotion and faith. (Luke 18..10-14)

Something to think about regarding testimony meetings.

Sociopaths lack sympathy and empathy. They can harm and/or exploit a person without feeling pity or remorse. To the extent they have loyalties, it is clan-based.

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