According to Spencer W. Kimball, 'the word of wisdom would be violated by the eating or drinking of anything that contained a habit-forming drug'.Hmm,true that coffee contains something(caffeine) deemed to be a habit-forming drug.That 'drug' generally does not affect people negatively and as for tea,don't even get me started.But something which I have long pondered is high-sugar,high-fat foods.These food types are often like drugs to people,we know there is an obesity epidemic at the moment in the U.S.,so where does the church draw the line?Chocolate contains the chemical 'theobromine',very similar to caffeine,so is this really not like splitting hairs?As for meat 'The church leaves this to the discretion of the individual',which is obviously a hint not to consume it.Therefore are most Mormons vegetarian?

I always hated it when some gas bag would read some message from the GAs where they would say recommend, and he would say, "I don't know about you, but when the brethren recommend something, I follow it." Though I forget the exact language. I was always like, "No, it is up to us. If it was to be a universal rule, then why not say it is one." Now I know this is one of the games the cult plays to keep members squabbling about silly issues, while they ignore real ones.

forbiddencokedrinker Wrote:
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Now I know this is one of the games the
> cult plays to keep members squabbling about silly
> issues, while they ignore real ones.


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This happens because it is such a judgemental church/culture and there are many who want to out-righteous the next guy.

My favorite part of the WoW is where it is said that is is given "not by commandment" . . .

its like on the show office space, you are required to were 13 pieces of flair. :) but highly encouraged to wear more or you aren't good enough

actually I think in a literal reading that considers when the revelation was given that beer is considered ok. milde drinks from grain specifically barley are a ok

verse 17
Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.


the only drink made from barley back then was beer and in the time and culture it was considered mild.

I'm not a drinker, hasn't really appealed to me, but I think this verse is actually pretty clear in what it states.

I remember drinking postum as a kid
http://www.bigsiteofamazingfacts.com/what-is-postum-who-invented-postum-and-where-did-postum-come-from

and it was a drink from grain so it was ok even though it was served hot and was basically a coffee substitue.

The word of wisdom and the interpretation of it is is a pretty convoluted bit of history.

I also have a good friend that is a nutritionist, she once tried to make the WoW fit a book she wrote on healthy eating, she told me how she had to dig into really obscure articles with no backing to try and support the concluions of the WoW, it all modern knowledge of healthy eating is quite different than what the WoW said.

me personally, I ate way to many grains (bread, cereal, ect) for too many years, I ballooned to 285 lbs, when I started living on meat and cutting the bread and sugar, I dropped to 225 and have kept it off for several years. for me little meat and lots of bread was very bad for my health. The fact that I lost that wait when it seemed like I was doing opposite what the WoW said was just another item on my shelf for a long time.

The word of wisdom is the most idiotic of all Momo beliefs. It is the easiest of all to shoot holes through. But it is held religiously to because of the Mormon affinity for goodness by checklist.

So coffee is evil? Hmmmm because of the caffeine? OK. Then chocolate's out then? No? Coke? No. Black tea evil but herbal ok? Hmmmm.

Beer is strong drink? Really? How about that Joseph, Brigham and many others drank it long after the WOW came out?

Tell me of one person denied a temple rec for being a fat, obese fuck who daily violated the "meat in times of winter or famine" part.

The meat "in times of famine" is just another proof of the absurdity of the WoW. In times of famine you must eat grain because feeding it to cattle and then eating the meat provides less net food for people and would promote starvation.
As for eating meat only in winter, in winter the meat (at least in cold zones) keeps, but in summer you must eat it quickly. Moreover, in winter you need less calories unless your abode is unheated because the days are shorter and farming is largely dormant.

Coffee and tea are good for the body and good for the mind. Beer is made from malt and is specifically permitted under the WoW except by later interpretation making all alcohol "strong drink".

The promises of the WoW are plaigerized from a Bible passage. The same promises are essentially included, of course, in the "endowment" ceremony (including in the anointing portion of the endowment and at "the veil").

Yes and no. In time of famine, you are still going to eat meat, but you are going to want to eat it early on. You know, slaughter the cows, so you can stop feeding them.

There's a book called, "The Year 1000, What Life Was Like At The Turn of the First Millennium" by Robert Lacey and Danny Danziger that goes into great length about surviving periods of scarcity. By the way, the worst time for starving is not winter, but in the middle of summer, after the crops are planted, but before they can be harvested, and the last of the winter stores are gone.

Right, because nothing grows in the wild to be gathered for food.

Oh really,are they still on the fence about Coke then?Thought that might have been out?

The WOW was just a collection of the health fads of the day.

More theft of ideas by Joseph Smith.

This explains that sacrament meeting talk back in the SWK administration on the EVILS of COCOA.

Some people need a good reason to avoid things that aren't good for them, two thumbs up to those using the wow as an excuse to be healthy I say.

My neighbor, who is in the Bishopric and a "good Mormon" eats
meat like it's going out of fashion. He's into summer barbecues
and eats more meat in a month than I do all year and I'm no
vegetarian.

He also would sit in front of the TV with a two-quart ice cream
container and finish the whole thing off.

But he follows the "Lords Law of Health." He doesn't have a
glass of wine with dinner and doesn't smoke.

He was recently diagnosed with type-2 diabetes. That slowed him
down for a while but then he couldn't stand it any more so he's
back to his usual habits. And still shaking his head at those
who don't have the gumption to give up smoking.

The WOW is NOT about health. It's about control.

"WINE -- the beverage of choice of both Jesus and Joseph Smith"

Put a picture of Jesus and Joseph Smith with a bunch of grapes in the background.

It was a stupid copy of some medical advice of the day. JS propbably read it in the newspaper, They ignored it for decades, then got the bright idea to use it as a worthiness fetish.

Most Mormons are actually ANTI Vegetarian in my experience. I once asked a Mormon about the "eating meat sparingly" and he said that the word of wisdom was just a guideline and that you could decide for yourself. However, he didn't feel it was a guideline about drinking coffee and tea.

In the morg, you can get a temple recommend if you eat meat three times a day but not if you drink coffee once a day.

That is so true...lol The wow is a work in progress from one generation to the next. The not eating meat sparingly has never been addressed/dissected so far as I know.

I know some TBMs who mistakenly think they are uber TBM by not eating meat at all. They ignore the other D & C section which says meat is for man to eat! I have yet to meet healthy vegetarians. What we should avoid is hot dogs, bacon, sausage, pepperoni, bologna, etc. But in mormon breakfasts you see bacon and sausage and in the picnics you see hot dogs!

Steve Young's family ate plenty of good beef!

lol...if to be a Mormon I was told I would have to abstain from hot dogs, bacon, sausage, pepperoni, bologna, etc., I guess I'd never be Mormon material ;)P

The point is that almost all of the negative aspects of red meat are because of the processed meats! There are also negatives in eating charcoal broiled meats.

Since I was reading the latest info on this this morning, here's a summary of findings on meat and cancer for anyone wondering about rhgc's post:
http://www.wcrf-uk.org/cancer_prevention/recommendations/meat_and_cancer.php

The haeme-iron in meat itself also damages the colon's lining, which I didn't know before reading the above this morning. But definitely charred and processed meats are ranked higher for cancer risk.


BTW, I've been vegetarian for years and I'm plenty healthy, unless you count congenital problems. I've only rarely encountered vegetarians (or vegans, for that matter) who fit this image of the sickly, unhealthy vegetarian that I hear about. Just for the record.

So , a hypothetical question: how many people have gotten cancer due eating more than one pound of red meat a week? Would you blame the women with breast cancer for eating too much meat? How about the children who suffer cancer?
I'm just saying. Someone all these scientific claims overestimate the source of health problem. It's more useful if they can find cures to reverse these diseases, rather than judge the "sin"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2013 10:55PM by mostcorrectedbook.

So the church is just being selective in its enforcement of the Word of Wisdom.Tea,the most mild,least damning drink you could consume(far less damaging than orange juice for example with it's acidic and corrosive properties which is permitted) is banned but not copious amounts of meat,chocolate etc etc?There's something very wrong there.

I could have used a nice Coke or coffee drink to stay awake in school because I had to wake up at 5 am and be in seminary by 6am! My seminary teacher would flip out if we had Starbucks in the 80s.

THE WOW is pretty much a joke! First of all it was voted in as gospel. Secondly it cintradicts what jesus said; thats its not what you put in your month that makes you unclean; Its what come OUT of your month! 3rd. Their own food program contradicts it. Canned fruits & veggies when you are suposed to eat the fruits in the season there of.??

When I was a kid my mom was cooking something and using unsweetened chocolate. "I want some!" I said.
"Ah, no you don't," she answered.
"Sure I do, it's chocolate!"
"Okay," she smiled, dipped in a teaspoon and spooned it into my mouth.
Nastiest tasting stuff in the world. But that's the only kind of chocolate I would recommend staying away from.

But who knows, maybe it tasted nasty because I ate it off of a "tea"spoon?
Come to thing of it, we had a "coffee" table in the living room too. I guess the seeds of rebellion were planted early. LOL

Isn't this a little unfair? Making fun of Spencer W Kibble sayings is like shooting fish in a barrel.

If you don't drink iced tea because your scriptures prohibit hot drinks....you might be a Mormon.

Wow=words of wackos...itnojca

Funny thing that I pointed out to some Brazilian members in the USA. In the USA version of the true to the faith booklet, it says that coffee and tea re prohibited. In the Brazilian version is says that coffee and black tea are prohibited...

And the reason is .... they drink a ton of team in Brazil and there is no way they could get converts if they had to drop coffee and tea.

This is the problem with a "works-based" theology. It decays and become pharisaical * silliness. Had JS and successors been authentic in their Christianity, they would know that the Biblical principle of STEWARDSHIP is what prevails--being responsible for the body (and other things) God has given you.

So my approach is that I want to maintain myself in a responsible, moderate, healthful way. Caffeine and alcohol are God-created compounds, and different people can consume different amounts according to their reasonable needs and desires, and should apply the principle of good stewardship instead of slicing and dicing myriad rules and regulations in a fruitless quest for proper obedience.

*from the Pharisees, the religious group in Jesus' time who were experts at interpreting the Hebrew rules and regulations down to very minute, and often silly and hypocritical, extremes. Consider this from Matthew 23.23:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."