By using the term "polygamous," especially here on RfM, my assumption (and, I'm sure, many people's assumptions) mean that you are restricting your question specifically to Mormon-structured polygamy, correct?
I agree with rainwriter. Think that could work but not for everyone. The wives (or husbands in a polyandrous relationship) would IMO have to be genuinely attracted to each other and want the relationship and not just be going through it to fulfil their spouse's fantasy.
I know q*u*e*e*r* (the board doesn't allow that word even though it's been reclaimed ;)) people who are in polygamous and polyamorous relationships (not Mormon polygyny)--triads, situations with primary and secondary partners, etc. They're generally very happy.
I disagree. I know some children of poly families who are happy, smart, well adjusted, and open minded. They are raised by all members equally and any jealousy or competition that existed was dealt with long before they came along. Children used to be raised by tribes...nuclear monogamous families aren't inherently happier. Now polygamy based on exploitation like the FLDS kind, that's different.
I've known many mainstream and plyg families and don't think most of them understand the concept of freedom or happiness when they're under that dark cloud.
Many think they're qualified to say who is happy looking from the outside. I think all of us have thought Mormons appeared perfect only to find out their home life behind closed doors is anything but. Plyg life is far more complicated and stressful than the mainstream mormon culture.
Many on this board considered the Biglove HBO show to be a depiction of happy plyg life. However it was all too realistic and the dysfunction was always evident if one scratched through the gloss.
It's impossible to have a chance of a healthy one on one relationship between a man and many wives.
Right, that's why I and another poster clarified that that's not actually what "polygamy" means, though the OP may certainly have meant it to include only the Mormon definition. And I expanded my answer to include polyamory, which involves any number of consenting adults of any combination of genders, orientations, or gender expressions and, in the cases I was describing, includes lifelong, happy, committed marriages (which to me then is also "polygamy"), again between people of various genders, all consenting and generally not raised to be poly nor encouraging their children to do so in any way.
Even more don't believe mormon plygs who make that assertion since they are extremist mormons.
I said it on the compound. Mormons say it in testimony meeting, and plygs say it because that's how they're indoctrinated to think and talk, much like regular mormons but on steroids.
Also, you assume that I am being fooled by them. This is a kid I've known since early elementary school. You are fooling yourself if you think I am misreading this.
The people I mentioned aren't Mormons either, and I know them and their families quite well. I would assume that you're right in most or all Mormon polygynous families, but that's far from the only form of polygamy/poly anything.
I respect your disagreement, but your last statement is offensive. I am not poly, but having multiple partners in a relationship/marriage is not a "proclivity." So I suppose gay parents should not "impose" that on young children either since not everyone agrees that gay people should be parents? They don't have the right to raise a family because you and others don't think they do?
You also mentioned "sister wives;" see my below comments; you are saying you're not talking about Mormon polygyny, but then referencing sister wives, polygamy, and multiple wives as if they are givens, which is why I thought you were confused. In one specific situation I know about, there are 4 adults, two male and two female, all married to one another (obviously not legally, but they consider themselves married for life). There are no "sister wives" at all, and their children are all highly educated and are free to marry whomever they want in whatever situation they want. They have many friends with monogamous parents, go to public school, and live in a suburb, not isolated from anything. Your statement that NO people in these situations can make it in the outside world is simply a false generalization, and it's hurtful.
I understand that you disagree. There are plenty of people I think shouldn't be parents. But I don't have the right to tell them not to be unless there is abuse or neglect, and neither do you.
In my ideal world, if society has already thrown out any kind of traditional thinking, adults would be married in foursomes or six-somes. 2 men & 2 women or 3 men & 3 women. Gays could possibly have bisexuals in theirs so that it could include both men & women; two bisexual & two gays, or, two straights, two bisexuals & two gays.
The male to female ratio would be equal, and not unfair like in traditional religious poly families where its one man and multiple women.
People's multiple needs (not just sexual) would be met better and two don't drive each other crazy by being around just each ALL the time.
I sort of experienced this when my wife and I lived with other couples. There was no sexual relationships involved with the other couples, but I swear OUR relationship was better when we were able to live with other people. Much of her female needs could be met just by being around the other girls (talk time, how do these clothes look on me, etc). My guy needs could be met just by being around other guys (watch sports together, video games, etc). We each tended to be on better behavior and be in better spirits when we were around other people. We could spread around our frustrations instead of burdening them on just one person. Our opinions could be vetted better by having other people to bounce them around on, instead of just assuming the the other person is simply wrong and arguing.
We tend to fight more and get sick of each other more now that its just the two of us. I kind of wish that we could be married to those guys, haha.
I AM GOOD FRIENDS WITH SOME VERY HAPPY PEOPLE WHO CAME FROM POLYGAMOUS MARRIAGES AND WERE HAPPY WITH THE ARRANGEMENT. THEY DONT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE HAVE SUCH A FUSS ABOUT IT.
I am not qualified to speak, since I know no polygamists, but my thoughts are that if a monogamous couple respects each other and has a relatively "equal" relationship -- where one is neither dominant or subordinate to the other -- then all is good.
But in a polygamous marriage or society, I think that Papa the Priestholder would always be alpha dog, and the women subordinate to him.
I suspect one of the female wives would be Alpha, and the other wives subordinate. A sexier younger wife introduced into the group could suddenly replace the original Alpha female and throw a wrench into the existing hierarchy.
Polygamy seems to marginalize "weaker" males -- especially if they are seen as a threat to the dominant male leader.
Take for example the married men that Warren Jeffs banished from his sect. They men were torn from their families forever. Then there are the younger, more virile "Lost Boys" -- children and teens, forced to go out into modern society without experience or much education.
If I remember correctly, only 15 men are allowed to father the children in the group from now on. And sex is only allowed for procreation. Warren Jeffs said that two witnesses in the room must be present during the "procreative" act.
How can anyone be happy in groups where "high drama" seems to be the order of the day?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2013 01:57PM by Senoritalamanita.
If you are including non-Mormons (or any of the breakoffs), then I would say "yes". I have a friend at work that is in a long-term live-in relationship with 2 women and another man. It seems to be working well for them.
You can start from season one and watch the Sister Wives self destruct one by one. That doesn't mean every family like that is messed up though. I do agree that they aren't doing their kids any favors though. Cody is a self-absorbed jackass wannabe
No. And I had polygamous ancestors, which I am not proud of. I have letters and journals and they were unhappy. But I can't feel pity for them, they joined the Mormon church as converts. I was raised in the cult from birth and had no chance to see the world as it is until it was too late to change very important things.
In thinking about this more, in the situations I've seen that truly have worked and as a general rule, I think the following factors would have to be present:
1. no religious aspect to the marriage/relationship (of course the people in it can have spiritual beliefs, but any time that there's some sort of religious obligation/edict to be poly-anything, I think that's a big problem) 2. anyone is free to leave the relationship at any time 3. no imbalance of power (unless those power dynamics are negotiated ahead of time to everyone's benefit, as in poly kinky families who have power exchange dynamics) 4. all parties are fully consenting mature adults 5. any combination of genders is a possibility (i.e., it's not "every man has multiple wives" or "every woman has multiple husbands," both of which create an imbalance of power, but "any person or group of people can marry/be in a relationship with any person or group of people")
They're not consenting or mature, nor can they choose to leave and don't know their mother from a sister wife or who they'll end up marrying since they're not capable of making it in the outside world.
Once again, I am not talking about the Mormon definition of polygamy, nor does polygamy actually mean (according to the literal definition, though it's often used incorrectly) one man with many wives/sister wives. Polygamy just means any marriage with more than two partners. The specific situation you're talking about is fundamentalist Mormon polygyny, and there are many types of relationships with multiple people in them that do not involve one man with many wives, Mormonism, or sister wives. That is what I'm talking about.
But then your comments wouldn't apply, as there definitely would be no sister wives and there would likely/not necessarily multiple wives with one man in that scenario.
Nor would there be any problems with making it in the outside world, since they wouldnt face any of the problems that make Mormon polygamy so terrible...social isolation, lack of education, religious indoctrination, etc. The only thing that would be true is that they wouldn't have chosen their parents or be free to leave, just as every single child in every family is not free to leave their parents or choose who their parents are, or if they are raised by a single mom or dad, teen parents, adoptive parents, grandparents, gay parents, etc.
As someone who has come across quite a few examples of non-Mormon polygamy (Malian muslims, actually), my experience is that only the men were happy with it, while the women AND the children HATED it.
I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone truly happy in any form of marriage. I have avoided it most of my life because I can't stand having someone else in my personal space and in my personal affairs. Marriage is not for me.
I am quite happy being a single parent in my own home focusing only on those things that matter to me. Some may call me selfish, but I need my privacy and get a lot of enjoyment of doing things my way without interference. I feel at peace with the world this way.