First, I want to apologize to you for not being a good friend to you. I realize you are a very busy doctoral student, and your time is precious, but I have not made the effort I needed to to involve you in the ward so that you would feel comfortable. For this I am truly sorry.
My secretary, ___, mentioned that you would like to have your name removed from the email list. I am sorry to hear this. You probably don't have time to come, but we would still love to keep you updated about our activities. Maybe there will be something you might be interested in attending.
Please reconsider stopping our announcements. We would love to have you join us when you can and give us a chance to be your friends.
Let me know.
Love, ___"
First of all, I moved away from that ward's area so I'm not even technically part of the ward any longer. Second of all, it makes me mad that I can be made to feel guilty over a simple request to remove my email from a mailing list. Thirdly, I feel bad that this woman is subject to a church which makes HER feel like she she has any sort of responsibility in this. Fourth of all, I was the only single YA in the ward (by choice- hated single's ward and it was over an hour away) and none of them were ever my friends nor ever tried to be (or they might have known that I moved away...). Lastly I find it disturbing that the secretary, who I've never met, felt the need to inform the RSP of my email.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2013 10:23PM by euphegenia.
This is really frustrating and she is most certainly being a minion for the church. However, I always had/have conflicted feelings about this kind of response...on the one hand, it's frustrating and weird for the person who just wants to be OFF THE DAMN LIST. And strangely violating, sometimes. But on the other, the culture really does make people feel horrible guilt for not keeping people active and basically forcing them to come back to church. It's talked about as if it's their personal responsibility, that every comment they make and every move they FAIL to make could be the difference between you and the celestial or terrestrial kingdoms. That's not fair to anybody. So it keeps them coming after you and spending their time and energy on fruitless efforts, as well as weighed down with guilt, and it keeps you hounded and stalked and exhausted. If they can get the members to shame themselves and each other for not only not being active enough but for not shaming the OTHER members enough for not being active, they've got everybody covered without having to lift a finger from Salt Lake. It's really a sad, controlling system.
And I agree with everyone else that you don't owe her anything, but it does really seem like she is trying to be nice or at least cordial. Again, you don't owe her an explanation, but she probably does feel guilty and obligated to say something. I would think that you'd be letting her off the hook by simply saying something like, No, that really won't be necessary, I'm not in the ward anymore, or, if you feel like no, No, I'm actually not going to church any longer, but thank you. I remember having big callings. It was a ton of pressure and so much was put on your shoulders. I wouldn't say anything beyond the above unless she continues to pressure you (and then she'd just be being obnoxious!), but that's of course just me.
This is where creative misunderstanding comes in very handy while dealing with your Mormons. A couple of answers come to mind:
"I only asked to have my name removed because I moved and am no longer a member of the ward. I thought you'd realize that. Did you not even notice I moved? Wow, that never even occurred to me."
or
"Oh, don't worry about not being a good friend to me. I never really noticed you at all so it never occurred to me to want to be friends. Sorry if I missed your cues and overlooked you."
or
"You seem to think I was uncomfortable in the ward. I've been a Mormon for years so I'm very comfortable in any church setting. Have you had a real problem with the women in Relief Society making others uncomfortable? I'm so sorry - that must be really rough working with such dreadful women. I hope things turn around for you. I wish I could help - you clearly need nicer sisters like me but unfortunately, I have moved and can't help you with your efforts to change the tone of the ward and set an example for all those difficult sisters. I wish you the best of luck."
Just flag/mark any mail from any members of TSCC as spam, so then it will be sent to your spam folder, & you won't have to deal with it. Simple as that. :)
"Yes, she is drone like, but holy crap people, ease off. Did she invoke fire and brimstone? Was she borderline? No! It's a freakin' apology."
Some people use apology as a means to make people feel guilty, or make people feel sympathy for themselves. They may not even realize that they are being manipulative. Her e-mail was a perfect example.
"Give her a break. She may be the next great RFM poster."
But not yet. ;-) RSP isn't personally getting raked over the coals. She has no idea this is being discussed. But if she DOES end up here, she'll probably realize how odd her behavior was. I was embarrassed about some of my behavior after I left the church, to the point that I apologized to an old friend.
We're here to help euphegenia deal with this. This e-mail bugged her, enough that she wanted to discuss it. If the e-mail wasn't really guilt-loaded and dishonest (the RSP didn't REALLY want to be her friend, she just felt guilty for not actually BEING her friend), euphegenia would have just blown it off and deleted it. But it got to her. She was bothered because she didn't know how to say "no thanks, take me off the list" and she wanted to disagree with some things that seemed dishonest, and couldn't do so without seeming mean to RSP.
That's the thing about the way Mormons communicate. The WORDS may sound like love, support, apology, but what really happens is the person they are talking to feels violated or guilty for making a simple request. Nobody is obligated to remain on an e-mail list just because the promoter of the e-mail list wants them to. If someone actually WANTED to maintain a relationship, it wouldn't require being able to send a mass e-mail to them.
"Don't act like y'all haven't been where she's at before."
I won't. I freely admit I've tried to interfere in people's lives who didn't want to be involved. That doesn't make me exempt from acknowledging that and pointing it out when I see it. In fact, it makes me more qualified. I don't think the RSP is a bad person. She's a tool, being used by the church, and responding with the kind of language and manipulation that she has seen modeled and possibly even been the target of. And she's a victim, because she feels guilty for something that isn't her responsibility at all. But that doesn't make it feel any different on the receiving end for euphegenia. You see, the e-mail was about the RS president trying to make herself feel better and trying to make it difficult for euphegenia to make a simple request.
It's really okay to discuss behavior that's out of line. It's how people validate that something felt wrong to them, and how to learn to respond.
"(Sorry euphegenia if she really is a total bi-atch.) It's more the one sided responses I object to."
I don't think the RSP is a total witch. (see what I already wrote). And I think the response should be short and polite. And it's okay for people to vent here about inappropriate behavior.
"Dear RSP, thanks for trying but unfortunately I now know the truth about the Church. I insist on no further contact from the Church. That means do not reply to this e mail, do not send updates about anything, do not have Visiting Teachers assigned to me, do not send Missionaries around, do not send invites to activities, do not call me to help with the cleaning or to donate money for another shopping mall. No contact means exactly that. No contact.
I suppose you are just following church orders, in turning down my request to have my name removed from the RS e-mail. You are right: time is precious. It will be faster if I remove myself by using my "spam" option.
If you tell her that you have moved, they will pressure you and your family for your new address, hunt you down, and send both the male and female missionaries. That's what they did to my son. Every Mormon neighbor that spoke to me, just said one thing to me: "What is your son's address. We need to send his records to his new bishop." I said, "I don't give out my children's personal information without their permission."
You don't need to discuss The Truth with her. Hardcore Mormons won't listen. They just bare their testimony at you, and talk over you, and sometimes accuse you--which can be upsetting.
Good luck with your new location. A fresh start always helps in recovery. May you have new--real--friends!
Who offers an apology to a straightforward request to have your name removed from a mailing list?
Answer: A Mormon
euphegenia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "Dear ___, > > First, I want to apologize to you for not being a > good friend to you. I realize you are a very busy > doctoral student, and your time is precious, but I > have not made the effort I needed to to involve > you in the ward so that you would feel > comfortable. For this I am truly sorry.
"Dear Concerned Self Loather, Thank you so much for repling however I still wish to be removed. As for the whole friend thing I always thought we had a good connection. No hurt feelings I'm just no longer wanting to get emails from anyone."
Or You could get nasty.
Dear friend who failed me, I am sorry but I am having myself removed from all my mailing lists including all the porn, exmormon, and many more don't feel singled out....
To show you how much they REALLY want to be your friend, here is my story.
I had an unlisted phone number and would not give it to the ward. I had a p.o. box address. I only had a work email address. I let everyone in the ward know that it was fine for them to call me or email me at work since I worked VERY long days and would not likely be home when they called. My office was fine with us receiving personal emails. I let them know I was usually home on weekends but did not take phone calls at home as that was my only down time. I filtered my calls thru my answering machine.
I lived right across the street from the chapel and right next door to both the bishop and the elders quorum president. Neither ever darkened my door. This was a VERY small town and everyone knew exactly where I lived because a single woman who owned her own home was quite a gossip topic. I was never home taught and never contacted at either work or home. It seems the RS and priesthood were very angry that I would not give out my home phone number as that was the only way they would contact me. The first counselor once complained that he couldn't reach me to make appointments and I said, "I'm here every Sunday" and he just grumbled and walked away.
Wow, your experience as a TBM is quite similar to mine. I was an open book--people could call or email me at work, call me at home any hour of the day or night, drop by, etc. Especially when I was in leadership positions, I really wanted to be accessible. The other TBMs took me up on that open door policy when they wanted something from me. However, when I was sick for weeks, and in the hospital, and grieving the deaths of family members, guess how many calls, emails and visits I got? That's right, NONE.
For the OP, I would simply block her email address as well as the RS secretary's address if that's where the newsletters are coming from. You've made a legitimate request, and the RSP went all TBMish on you. I wouldn't engage her any further.
Also with regards to your email - you may not have intended this, but the tone of your email comes across as emotionally manipulative and intentionally guilt-inducing. It also has an undue apparently self-centered focus on you and your feelings, when this really is not about you.
Unless emotional manipulation was your intention, I suggest you revise the way in which you approach these types of interactions in the future.
Please do not respond to this email with any apology or other response - that would only serve to confirm your disrespect for personal boundaries. Just remove me from the email list. There is no need to apologize for your behavior - I know it is not your fault but the influence of the LDS church that makes you emotionally manipulative and disrespectful of personal boundaries.
Dear RSP: Don't feel bad for failing me as a friend since I never considered you my friend. But if you'd really like to redeem yourself, please honor my request and leave me the hell alone.
"Dear RSP, thank you for your kind response. Go ahead and take my name off of the list. I've moved away from the ward area anyway, but even if that were not the case, I simply don't have the time. I am trying to cut back on unnecessary email. Thanks in advance for taking my name off of the list."