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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 06:09PM

Hello ! Our son married into the Mormon church. They have one child,and are expecting another. My problem is we continue to
Feel left out, of all activities and events with our grandchild-
Is it common practice to make in laws the " out laws" ?? Once
That ring goes on, and we've paid for a lavish wedding? No help from her folks at all.
I've reached my breaking point, when we have been deliberately
Left out of the information pertaining to the birth of our
Second grandchild... We are traveling out of State, to be there-
And have been given the wrong DATE and TIME?!
I verified it with several sources, including the hospital...
My patience is UP! With these two sets of in laws. Our DIL parents are divorced, and remarried. Her Father's a Bishop,
And I want to know how best to share with him, my total and complete disdain for how we are being treated.
My husband and I have not said a word, thought we'd ( obviously)
Surprise them at the hospital!

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 06:18PM

You have a problem communicating with your son????

How will it help for you to talk to the Bishop.

Talk to your son and get to the bottom of the problem, maybe they don't want you to be part of their lives.

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 06:40PM

I've had it with this Bishop/Dad of hers. He's always so condescending to my sons family- his wife is just as bad.
Our son needs to find his voice, and use it! I agree- but they
Are living with the bishop... Bad move I said, and my son now agrees. He was painted a pretty picture of what life would look like in the Morridor.. Now he regrets it, but is pretty much stuck, at least for a year . He did say... You may want to come sooner Mom .

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 06:22PM

Be upfront with the parents and let them know you're interested in being in the loop.

"We want to be supportive grandparents. Please help us. What can we do? When? Where?"

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 06:42PM

We have been, it's all smarmy passive aggression from the two of them. Never a straight answer to anything! Just smiles, dumb looks and changing of the subject ?!

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 06:46PM

Mormons tend to stick to their own group/cult members.

It's very difficult to communicate with people who think of you as "unworthy."

I'm sorry. I wish I had an easy answer for you.

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:17PM

Sadly, I do get it... You are right. It's heartbreaking.
I've never met such a mean group of people. My husbands been calling it a cult for awhile.
What is it that make them feel we are unworthy? I thought I was imagining it- but that's exactly the vibe I get!!

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:23PM

"Worthy" refers to members in good standing who have qualified to take a special calling or earned the right to go to a mormon temple.

"Unworthy" is the term used for everyone else. They also say "non-member," "non-Mormon," "coffee drinker," "gentile," among other uncomplimentary words.

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Posted by: darkprincess ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:12PM

My cousin is doing this to her husband's non-mormon family. They are doing it on purpose. His family is not mormon and so they don't consider them as good as her/my family (at least the one's that are mormon).

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:21PM

We went to their home.... OMG. I was in total shock, it's a pig sty. Such a mess, and they are total hoarders. I was raised not to judge, but I'm struggling with their righteous attitude- when you can put their whole house in my kitchen . ( sorry, I know that's not kind)

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:26PM

and they can't keep the house in decent condition. Perhaps the wife is depressed. That's common with mormon women who have young children and too many church expectations.

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:55PM

It's free to be clean! Lol
They always look great, whenever I've seen them...
I'm sure she is depressed, I would be looking around that home.
They talk about going to " visit" church members homes, and tell them what to do? Really??
I bet no one from church ever goes to their house

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 09:54PM

All mormons are expected to have at least two sets of visitors in their home each month to hear a lesson.

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 11:50PM

Wow! I am surprised to hear this. I would be too embarrassed .

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:18PM

that type of shunning is one of the worst problems that you will have in this situation.
The pure and holy hardly speak to the unwashed.
I truly sympathize with you. It is a cult thing and hard to get around.

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:24PM

Isn't it a SIN (?) or something to be like this? Is this what they teach?? I really don't have a clue. What can I say to them? To let them know there is nothing Christ-Like about what they do to us?

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Posted by: popeyes ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:23PM

They are fearful you will get them out of the church.

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:26PM

I wish! One of their sons is gay- we just found out he exists!!
My son didn't even know, she had a brother?! Poor guy was kicked out- moved out of State.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:25PM

Is your son a "hormonal convert"? He's been swept into a whole new world where the atmosphere is part oxygen, part nitrogen, but mostly LDS.

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:29PM

Ha! Yes he is.. Was quite normal, drank.. Smoked.. Fished, went dancing, played sports... Now all he does is CHURCH?
I can feel him suffocating when I am around him- but we are never alone! His wife is right there- always! Ugh!!!

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 07:33PM

I am soooo grateful to ALL of You! We had no idea what LDS was...
Or we sure would not have been as supportive.
I am learning a lot, I read everyday on this site .

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 11:52PM

That's funny- thank you! It seems very strange.

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Posted by: xnorth ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 10:16PM

Here's the thing. They sound like awful people. Absorbed by a cult. Rude and intentionally leaving you out. Regardless of that, your son is a married man with almost two children.

You said you confirmed something with their hospital and are going to surprise them there? That's a really really bad idea, aside from the fact that the hospital should not have given any info. Could you elaborate on this part?

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 11:55PM

I called to confirm when DIL was having baby. C section, I knew the date- and the time she had given me.. The nurse said close, but the time is 10am not 3pm .

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:07AM

I've read this five times now. I'm still crying, feeling so much better that some one " gets it" . We love and miss our son and grandson so much!!
We've spent some time around the " bishop" and you are right-
He seems to feel a lot more comfortable speaking with my husband. I also notice him treating my DIL like she's five years old...
And she is a totally different young woman around her Dad??
I'm going to print your advice, and hand it out to my family-
We are truly grateful to you!!
I wish you the best of luck also, with your son and his family.
My husband says, when the new baby comes, maybe she'll look
Just like me- fingers crossed!! Haha

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Posted by: anonny ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 10:31PM

Interestingly enough, we have the same problem. We had the same problem when we were TBM.

At the time we were TBM. My son was at BYU and met his wife to be. We were barely kept in the loop when they were married. That is until they wanted money. Then, and only then were we filled in on all of the events.

IMO, son decided that her family was more righteous than his. His inlaws are over the top TBM. We believed in free agency, and let out kids make choices in life. We also let them suffer the consequences. Son did not like that.

When first child came along, we were the last to know. They traveled 2000 miles to have the baby blessed, but didn't tell us about it until after the fact. That was about the time we'd left the church. We found out later that any gifts we gave them were donated to charity. That was the end of any and all gift giving.

11 months later, baby #2. They were shell shocked. I guess they didn't know what causes babies? Anyway, this time we made sure to get the information. We didn't buy any baby gifts. Instead we opened up a college fund for babies #1 and 2.

#2 is now 3 months old. We live on opposite coasts from them. We have e-mail, cell phones with cameras, and a blog. And we skype at least once a week. We have exactly 1 (one) picture of baby #2. They don't even mention the child. I'm a bit concerned about it. They used the excuse that baby had some baby acne. I told them we wanted pictures anyway. We don't care about something that almost all babies have. I'm thinking they're incredibly shallow. Finally we got another picture. A very good one without a hat or a blanket covering babies face. We're still laughing. I have decided that there really is a God, and his sense of humor is flawless. Baby #2 looks exactly like my DH. Spitting image that is undeniable. I think they were hoping baby would outgrow the look in a couple of months.

However, funny as that is, we still haven't been invited to the baby blessing that I assume has already happened, they just aren't going to tell us about it this time.

We're going there this fall. We don't stay with them. They live in a 600sq.ft. apartment. Because of my health I haven't been able to visit since they lived there. It will be interesting to see how they manage in such a small space.

They've been to the inlaws several times in the last year. The inlaws don't live any closer than we do. IMO son decided that he was going to bond with her more righteous family and try to have as little contact with us as possible. It's been that way since they were married. I've actually seen this kind of thing a lot in the Mormon community. Children marry, and the family with the most money, or who are seen as the most righteous is the family that they go with. I saw it happen within my own family.

The one thing I can say about it, is try not to take it personal. It's some sick thinking. Insist on having a relationship with your son and grandkids. Mark my words, there will come a day when the tables will turn. Maybe not for dil but most certainly for your son. Eventually he will get sick and tired of the inlaws being the end all of end all. Especially if they are constantly being held up as icons.

IMO (I was mormon for 50 years) the worst thing you can do is have a talk with the bishop father. Bishops are the worst. He does NOT view you as anyone who is even close to the same level as him. He will be looking down his nose at you the entire time you are talking to him. This is double true for women. Women are the lowest in rank in mormonism. Don't humiliate yourself like that.

I know it's hard, but try to be patient. Give your son all the love and support you always have. Try to help him understand that you WANT to be grandparents. YOU WANT to be there for all of the events. Keep at it. Do it with love. Be persistent. He will come around eventually. Mormon families like your dil's are filled with endless expectations. He will get weary of it. Be a soft place to fall. Trust me, his inlaws are not a soft place to fall. He has to be ON guard at all times in every word and deed when he's around them. His wife has led him to believe that her family is superior and that is where is loyalties should lie. She doesn't understand that your son had a whole lifetime with you. She has no idea what went on with him before she arrived on the scene.

Be patient. Be kind. And then be patient some more. Your son knows who you are. I think he may come around eventually.

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Posted by: armtothetriangle ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:43AM

This behavior was common 20+ years ago. I'd hoped it had dissipated somewhat.
It also illustrates one of the things that is so irritating when I read posts that equate Mormon Christianity and traditional Christianity.
What annony said plus this-
Find sometime to talk to the bishop one on one and calmly without being accusatory tell him you feel ostracized from your son's life and your grandchildren's. As long as you aren't straight up lying tell him you raised your son to use the 10 Commandments to govern his life, including "Honor your father and mother." My guess is you did because DIL & her family are nasty to you and so aren't proseletyzing. Tell him by such treatment you and your husband are dishonored by your son and his daughter and you feel "heart broken." And stop there.
TBMs hate this kind of stuff but they respond to guilt. And as long as you aren't lying don't feel guilty for laying in on the line.

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Posted by: brokenhearted ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 01:24AM

Good advice. I will talk to the husband about it, maybe he will
Listen- if the message comes from another male.
Sad we have these problems- never saw it coming.. Until we stopped paying for everything. Then poof! Off to another state to live with the Bishop and his wife.
We did raise our son right, in a Christian home. I've been in therapy for two months now, trying to figure out what I did wrong. I pray our son comes back around!

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Posted by: templeendumbed ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 01:50AM

I will preface this with I'm an idiot, but I would not talk to the Bishop FIL. Regardless of what the mo family is doing and I have no doubt they are in the wrong, your approach will be perceived as "In laws aren't an attractive option for our kids, but since in laws bitched it is now up to us the super righteous to try and humor them best we can."

If I were you I would only talk to your son and find out why no pictures, contact, updates, incorrect times and dates. Just find out from him and only him (I definitely would not include the DIL). When I was married I was in a similar situation and my family were TBM. It really has to do with some form of co-dependency that a lot of mo families have. We had to make huge efforts to travel 600 miles to her family, but driving 15 minutes to my parents for a sunday afternoon was too much. My mom occasionally mis-conjugated verbs and that was horrendous. However, her mothers entire winnie the pooh collection of assorted crap was normal. I could go on and on, but you are dealing with just another weird ass mo family with some form of codependency and you should only deal with the one possibly healthy one among them and that is your son.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 05:01AM

Don't think that this is your fault. It isn't. You didn't cause it.

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Posted by: Joy ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 05:26AM

"The Family" is the Mormon cult's greatest weapon. Your daughter-in-law's family has been brainwashed into believing that if any family member is not sealed in the Mormon temple, that they will not be with that person in the hereafter.

That's right. My husband and I were Mormons, but had never been married in the temple, and were divorced, and the Primary teachers taught our children that we would would be alone in the hereafter, not even know each other, and that we would "walk past each other as strangers." My daughter had nightmares, and my sons just got angry, and they wanted to quit the cult--but I wouldn't let them.

Mormons are taught that non-temple goers, even if they are still Mormons, are not as righteous. The types of power-struggles, judgments, and feuds go on with Mormon families within the cult--against each other. Each family manipulates, and tries to get more control over, more time spent with, more importance in the lives of their family members. Mormons are extremely competitive.

YOU ARE DEALING WITH CRAZY PEOPLE. Mormons are often Narcissistic, and it might help you to study about Narcissism, in order to deal with it. Mormonism is a Narcissistic religion.

I'm so sorry you son has brought the MOrmon plague into your life. Although all of my children resigned with me, one of my daughters married a Mormon returned missionary, and we now have the cult back in our lives again. When I'm excluded from every family get-together, I make myself feel better, by knowing that this is not personal. I am a good person, and an influence for good for my family. The cult members are the crazy ones.

Look at it this way--those little rituals are made-up, and meaningless. Joseph Smith was a con-man, a pedophile, and a criminal. He invented the temple rules, and borrowed the temple rituals from the Masons, so he could marry young girls in the temple--have his own secret marriages, along with his other polygamist friends. My ancestor was one of those polygamist friends, and I have read his diary, and his wife's diary.

When a Mormon baby is "blessed" only the men can participate, and only the men who have the Mormon priesthood. My non-Mormon sons had to stay seated, and were not invited to join the "prayer circle". They were the only men not included, and they felt very bad! Yes, they felt "unworthy." But, I reminded my sons that the Mormon priesthood had no power with God. Later, at home, we gathered as a family, and had a Christian prayer of our own, over the new baby, blessing him with Love, curiosity, kindness, generosity, and all the good qualities that Mormons leave out of their baby blessings. Mormons pray for their babies to:

1--get baptized in the Mormon church when they are 8.
2--Go on a mission for the Mormon church
3--Get married in the temple
4--Have more babies and raise them to be Mormons.

Though Mormons spend millions of dollars advertising and recruiting new members, he Mormon church's #1 source of new members is: new births!

You are in way over your head, but you can live around all this, by ADDING more to your son's and daughter-in-law's life than the MOrmon church does. The MOrmon church actually TAKES away money and time, self-esteem, freedom, happiness. The Mormon church does not give the one great thing that Christian churches offer: UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.

I have made a personal vow to love my children, in-laws, and grandchildren unconditionally. If you do that, you will rise above the pettiness, fears, and power-struggles. My daughter's MOrmon in-laws love to gossip, and put others down, in order to make themselves feel superior. Think about this. You write that your house is nicer than theirs. They are probably very jealous of this. You did give them money at first, and to Mormons, money is power. You have no idea how afraid of you they are!

I sit back and let the Mormon in-laws shoot themselves in the foot. When they say something nasty (and false) about me, I wince, and say, "That was a mean thing to say." or "That is a lie" when I can prove it is a lie. I call them on their manipulations and phoniness. I treat them like the crazies they are. When they accused me of trying to get them to name their new baby after me (I don't even like my name) I rolled my eyes and said, "Where do they come up with this garbage?"

You need to feel secure in your value to your son and his children, and possibly to your daughter-in-law, who has been under her father's thumb her whole life. Open new doors for them. Get them excited about life. Mormonism is notorious for being depressing! Utah is the most depressed state in the Nation, using the most anti-depressants, and having one of the highest suicide rates. I was depressed the whole time I was a Mormon, and when I left the cult, my depression disappeared. Look at what they teach.

Don't ever ask the Bishop's advice! He is not a trained clergyman! Lay clergy is not qualified to give marriage counseling, sex advice, political mandates, or any of the other things bishops are free to do. You and your husband, as normal parents, are far more qualified. Do not let the Bishop run things. Above all, do not ask his permission to see your children/grandchildren! He doesn't own them, and his cult doesn't own them. This is unrighteous dominion.
Fight back, in a loving, confident, calm way. Take a class in assertiveness training. The book, "When I say 'No", I Feel Guilty" is a manual in how to deal with trained Mormon missionaries and leaders. They are trained to manipulate others, and you will need some counter-training.

Because I (try to) never say anything bad about anyone, because I love unconditionally, because I'm liberal with praise, very supportive, non-interfering, have experience parenting, teaching, working with children, etc., my grandchildren prefer me to the in-laws, and that is huge. Oh, and don't say anything bad about their religion. (I never call it a cult around my family) but say something good about Christ. Such as, "Christ would never allow children to burn in the Second Coming. He loves children!" (This is another threat in Primary, to beat children into submission. I used to have nightmares about burning in a fire, because I was late, or accidentally broke something, etc, as children do.)

The Mormon in-laws are overly busy with stupid church meetings and projects. The MOrmon church separates children from the parents for 2/3 of the time spend in church. Children are more easily brainwashed without the parents being there. Too much is unsupervised. Hence, the bad behavior, the messiness, the depression. Mormons put on a false face of happiness, in order to recruit new members--but children can see through a false front.

Listen to your children. Mormons are not listeners. Their conversations are mostly one-way. Mom and Dad will instruct, and the children will listen and obey without question. Children love to tell you all about their day. You can do this on skype--whenever you want. You are NOT pulling them away from their cult, simply by listening. Make eye contact, by looking into the camera, instead at the picture of their face on the screen. I've noticed that Mormons aren't good at looking you in the eye. My daughter's in-laws live in excess--too much busywork activities, too much church, too many children (9!), too many grandchildren (16). They simply don't have the attention to give, one-on-one. I read to them, and teach them songs (not church songs), and play ball with them. The MOrmon in-laws will be no competition for you, so don't buy into their self-importance. Love wins.

Your son and your grandchildren need you! Please know this!

I would cooperate and go to the hospital when they tell you to. You could write an e-mail or make a call to confirm the time, without mentioning if it is the right time or not. Daughters usually reach out to their mothers at such a time, and I would not be offended by this, at all. If you cooperate with your son, he will cooperate with you. Your daughter-in-law will be pleased to have parent-figures who are genuine and caring.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 09:01AM

This is not a quick fix problem. It's very long term. You need to commit for the long haul.

Don't try to fix it with the bishop. He isn't on your side. Anything you say to him will be used against you.

Stay kind. Be consistent. Back off if you hit a brick wall, then come back just as kind and consistent as ever, but never pushy.

And please don't spring surprises on this young couple. Thoughtful gifts are nice, but don't show up in person unexpectedly. New moms don't need aggravations like that when they're dealing with a young child, a new baby, a nervous new father, a fanatical Mormon bishop and bishop's wife, a judgmental church community, and raging new mom hormones and lack of sleep.

Remember the turtle and hare story. Slow and steady does it.

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Posted by: excatholic ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 08:35AM

Your son voluntarily married this woman and converted to her church. I can entirely understand how hurtful it is to have him involved in what is essentially a cult.

However, he is an adult. You need to let him live his own life.

If they don't want you closely involved in their lives, that is their right entirely. It's pretty clear that they did not want you present for the birth of their child. Lots of women don't want their mothers-in-law hanging around at that time. If they wanted you there, they would tell you that.

I'm not a Mormon. But if you'd "surprised me at the hospital," that would be the very last you'd see of me or of my kids, period. If I knew that you were even contemplating going behind my back to talk to somebody else (like the bishop) to manipulate me, we would block your phone number and never speak to you again.

Please stop trying to undercut your daughter in law. You do not have any control over how they raise their kids, nor should you. Unless there is abuse or neglect going on, it is not your business.

If you paid for their wedding, that's nice. Hopefully it was a gift, freely given and received. If you think that gives you some sort of hold over them, it would have been far better not to have spent a penny on it.

Honestly, you are sounding like the stuff of mother in law horror stories.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2013 08:37AM by excatholic.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 09:24AM

I see mormons aren't the only ones with an attitude.

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