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Posted by: oncewasblind ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 09:33PM

This has been on my mind for some time. TSCC with all its millions of dollars get experts in there and start digging so we can know For sure that millions were slain there in the epic battle of the book of mormon. Would that be too much to ask Tommy?

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Posted by: noncompete ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 09:34PM

They are afraid of what they won't find!

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 09:37PM


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Posted by: Checker of minor facts ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:08AM

Just how embarrassing would that be? ;)

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Posted by: anonny ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 09:38PM

They've done a lot of searching on that hill in the past. They built a big visitors center there. I'm sure it took a lot of digging with heavy equipment to build that thing.

There's a big chunk of that hill that they don't own. When I was there it was like grassy and a bit forested. There were cows grazing in the woods. I'm sure that mean farmer won't let them dig up his land. It would have been interesting to talk to whom ever owned that land. I'll bet they have some pretty crazy stories to tell about those Mormons.

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Posted by: sizterh ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 09:43PM

A lot of things added up to me realizing it was a scam but the Hill Cumorah was one of the larger parts.

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Posted by: Frightened Inmate #2 ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 09:48PM

I remember as a kid wondering why they don't just go dig up the hill and get proof, it's so easy. But I'm sure it's just too sacred a place to dig. Plus, we have the Book of Mormon, what more proof could you ask for.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 10:02PM

--The Greatest Story Never Gold: Not only was there no gold to back up Joe's phony Kirtland bank notes, there was no gold-crammed caves inside the Hill Cumorah--

It's a matter of historical record that Joseph Smith's Mormon Church co-inventer, Oliver Cowdery, couldn't get his magic dowsing stick to function when it came to the Book of Mormon's translation junction.

Yet, despite this fundamental failure on Ollie's part, he supposedly was able to locate caves in the Hill Cumorah piled high with ancient plates.

Grant Palmer, in his book "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins” [Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 2002], describes the “discoveries” thus:

“The ability to see into hidden crevices within the local hills was not limited to Joseph Jr. and his father. Heber C. Kimball spoke of 'the vision that Joseph and others had [Joseph Sr. and Oliver Cowdery are identified] when they went into a cave in the Hill Cumorah and saw more records than 10 men could carry . . . books piled upon tables, book upon book.'

"[Brigham] Young named more witnesses in connection with these visits to Cumorah's cave . . . : 'Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon-loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates . . . . I tell you this as coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it . . . . Carlos Smith . . . was a witness to these things. Samuel Smith saw these things, Hyrum saw a good many things but Joseph was the leader.' . . .

"In 1873 Brigham Young informed Elizabeth Kane and others that the plates that Cowdery saw 'were in a cave; that Oliver Cowdery . . . would not deny that he had seen [and handled] them. He had been to the cave.'” Palmer adds that “Hyrum Smith related more about [Cowdery's Cumorah spelunking) to William W. Phelps, identifying still others who made the excursion to the hill's interior. Phelps recounted: 'Joseph, Hyrum, Cowdery and Whitmer[s?] went to the Hill Cumorah. As they were walking up the hill, a door opened and they walked into a room about 16-feet square. In that room was an angel and a trunk. On the trunk lay a Book of Mormon and gold plates, Laban's sword, Aaron's breastplate.'” In this regard, Palmer adds that in another statement, Young mentioned that they saw “ 'a Messenger' who was the 'keeper of the room' and that they conversed with him.”

Palmer raises doubts that Cowdery physically located such gold-crusted caverns, noting that Brigham Young's version of “recounted statements by Cowdery [of walking into a treasure-laden cave inside the Hill Cumorah] . . . may have been misremembered [as] . . . real events rather than visionary”--serving to further underscore that Cowdery was “seeing” things with his magic stick. Palmer notes, “It appears that this cave was not a physical reality but rather something that was visited in a dream-vision” by Cowdery and others."

Ya think?

Jerald and Sandra Tanner, in their book, "The Changing World of Mormonism" (Chicago, Illinois: The Moody Bible Institute/Moody Press, 1980-81), quote LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie in his "Mormon Doctrine":

"It is reported by President Brigham Young that there was in the Hill Cumorah a room containing many wagon loads of plates {p. 454)."

Mormonism certainly carries wagon loads of something, but it ain't gold plates.

As the Tanners observe:

"An ordinary person would probably see nothing of importance about this hill but to Mormons this is one of the most important places on Earth."

Indeed, making a mountain out of a bull hill.
_____


No gold in Joe's Kirtland "bank" vault.

No gold in Joe's Hill-Cumorah under-the-stone-box vault.

Psssst, Joe: Cut your losses and build a mall.

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Posted by: BeenThereDunnThatExMo ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 11:26PM

Unlike Mountain Meadows...the back-hoe won't pick up a bucket of bones on it's first try at Cumorah.

OnceWasBlind...you obviously need to heed the advice of the almighty Gordon B and simply forget those little "flecks" of history!!!

Geez...what do you think you are trying to do...think for yourself or something???

Or so it seems to me...

(Just pokin' fun at you!)

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Posted by: Lasvegasrichard ( )
Date: August 14, 2013 11:51PM

Wouldn't you love to be the poor soul who had to live underground and stare at all these relics for eternity ? It sounds more like a troll or a leprechaun .

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Posted by: enoughenoch19 ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:45AM

If the magic door opened for other Profits, why not for Tommy?

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Posted by: runningyogi ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:45AM

Send Harrison Ford over for the Adventure!

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Posted by: exmorphmon ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:49AM

That's like asking why Jose Smithee crossed the road.

"Because they don't know how to operate peepstones."

I'm guessing Tommy Inc. want to keep the masses of believers in ignorance (Mormonspeak = faith). Knowledge is not a good thing if it shows how silly the church is.

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Posted by: fluhist ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:53AM

Yeah Harrison Ford would find everything for sure huh???? He's awesome!

This question has been around since I joined the Church at 14 (I am now 61). I also wanted to know why we couldn't just dig it all up and find all the evidence of the truth of the Church.

I have even been at a fireside with an 'up there' member of the seventy or something who gave a LONG talk about what was actually in there. One thing I remember is that the urim and thummim is there. It consists of 2 quartz like stones which are sort of round is shape and had a "pair of glasses' attachment that hooked over the ears. ALL this of course was before all the seer stone in the hat stuff was made public.

I was told that the Church didn't dig it up because God told them not to, and that we had to go on faith, Yup more, pray and be faithful stuff.

Of course now they may NEED some good evidence. Anyone want to bet they STILL WON'T dig it up, because there is nothing there but dirt?

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Posted by: Indiana Jones and the Hill ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 02:00AM

Wow, what a show that would be ;)

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Posted by: darksided ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 02:01AM

I would watch that Geraldo special!

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Posted by: msp ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 02:23AM

For the same reason why I can't go to Hogwarts and be a wizard :( No, not because I'm a muggle!

Anyways, similar questions can be asked about so much in the lds church.
Why isn't there any real revelation?
Why can't anyone explain the BoA/BoM and the problems with it?
Why can't I get a definite answer on issues with church history/doctrine?
..the list goes on

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Posted by: judyblue ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 01:09PM

My retired-minion-of-GBH-turned-Institute-teacher broke down in tears once when he told us about visiting the vaults in Little Cottonwood. Because of his privileged status, he wasn't limited to just the regular old dusty vaults full of necrodunking records - no, he got to go into the MEGAVAULT2000 on a trip with Gordie one time. He stood at the front of the classroom, tears streaming down his jowls, as he told us about this adventure. "If you could see the treasures in that vault," he warbled, "you would never have doubts about the church again!"

So don't worry, guys - it's not that GOD is withholding or hiding evidence because he wants you to have faith! It's just that his church is!

Blarg.

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Posted by: Hugh ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 02:20PM

This is one of my favorite "go to" rebuttals when talking to TBM's, because many apostles and profits have testified of the exact NY locale. They can't hide behind the cloak of the, "it will be made known" like they do with the BOM.

Here's a great thread from earlier in the month:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,969405,969941#msg-969941

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Posted by: notamormon ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 04:45PM

Why dig up the hill when all they need is ground radar.

I somehow don't think they are going to use that.

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Posted by: cognitiveharmony ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 04:54PM

There's no doubt in my mind they've already explored it extensively and found exactly what you would expect...nothing. If there was even the slightest chance that they could find something faith promoting, they'd do it in a heartbeat.

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