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Posted by: bratschedan ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:05PM

Any advice? I plan to give them some water and a tasty snack to ease the summer heat. I'm also going to mention right away that I'd rather not discuss religion... Or should I try to plan any seeds? Hopefully it will be short and painless.

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Posted by: upsidedown ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:07PM

Give then a top three list. See if they will try to find the answers for you. Maybe it will lead them to find out some information to help them doubt and look at things with more logic and reasoning.

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Posted by: bratschedan ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:09PM

Can you recommend a top 3?

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Posted by: kolobian ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:25PM

Ok, so when they're settled in on the couch here's what you do:

1. Have them open their bibles (if they brought any) to 1 Peter 3:15

2. Read it out loud: "But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect"

3. Ask them if they are willing to follow the bible's admonition and answer some questions

4. Bust out copies of the Letter to a CES Director

5. Record it all and post on youtube

6. Return & Report (with a link)

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Posted by: left4good ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:30PM

+1

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Posted by: Bert ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:41PM

Ask them if they can show you where the bible is translated incorrectly. The bible is the foundation text of Christianity. Mormons claim to be Christian. The Mishys will answer that there is no problem with the bible.

At this pointing the conversation ask them why the only true church -The Mormons- must use a second text.

At this point show them the problems with their book.

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Posted by: upsidedown ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 12:50PM

Here is three to start with if you like them:

1. D&C 132 Why should Emma be destroyed if she doesn't go along with polygamy. Why Did Joe marry women who were married (and Brigham Young). Why did he marry 14 year old girls. (and many other LDS leaders also did this too)

2. Why did Joe get the translation of the Book of Abraham wrong. Planet Kolob, The facsimile translation is all wrong.

3. Multiple accounts of the first vision. No account of the first vision being written down for at least 12 years after it happened. Wouldn't it be the most important thing that ever happened on planet earth if it were true? Why did it never occur to Joe to share the story or write it down....and then when he did write it down it was five different versions. Why? Because it was a lie.

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 01:15PM

I am not familiar with you poster. What is your objective for the meeting? To tell missionaries you've invited into your home you don't want to discuss religion, plant seeds to strangers, practice having discussions about Mormon doctrines?

Not sure why you are meeting with them, don't want to assume.

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Posted by: brett ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 01:23PM

I agree with gentlestrength. It sounds like you aren't really happy about them stopping by, so I'm curious about why you're allowing them to.

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Posted by: ck ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 01:40PM

If you don't want them there, just hand them the waters, tell them you're not interested in talking with them, and tell them goodbye. You don't have to meet with missionaries if you don't want to. You are not required to explain yourself to them or justify your reasons for leaving. You owe them nothing.

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Posted by: bratschedan ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 01:48PM

I should have explained - TBM family member invited them for lunch last week. Conveniently, I'm the only one who will be home for their visit. The lunch is already made, I just have to sit through it.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 01:52PM

ahh.. I see what happened now.
My suggestion: set the boundaries up front.
This is lunch, all topics are on the table, except religion.
Now lets eat!
Then, get them talking about them: where they live, their interests, sports they like, etc.
Should go well.
Offer them the use of the Internet ... see what happens.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 04:57PM

I agree with Susie. Keep the conversation on getting-to-know-you topics.

Remember, just because a question is asked doesn't mean that you need to answer it. You can always change the topic.

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Posted by: judyblue ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 01:51PM

They will straight-up reject anything they perceive as "anti" - meaning, anything that relies on facts not written down in scriptures or spoken by mormon leaders.

So I would start with this: Read or recite Luke 23:34 - "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do..." Ask them to clarify who he was talking about.

When they say it was the Romans, ask if these are the same Romans who tortured him? Yes.

The ones who physically nailed him to the cross? Yes.

The ones who spat on him and mocked him? Yes.

The ones who lived in his town at the same time that he did, who could very well have been witnesses to his miracles? Yes.

The missionaries will get very excited and start gushing about how loving and forgiving Jesus and HF are.

So then you ask them to open up 3 Nephi chapters 8-9. Ask them to confirm that the events in these chapters are happening concurrently with Christ's crucifixion and death. Then ask what it was that made the Lamanites so wicked that they deserved genocide. Refer to 8:25 and throughout chapter 9 where it says they rejected the prophets.

Ask the missionaries, how long had the Nephites and Lamanites been two divided tribes by this point? Nearly 600 years.

How often, in those 600 years, had the Nephites and Lamanites gone to war? A ton. You might say a plethora. By only 40 years in to the two tribes' history, there had already been "wars and contentions" (2 Ne5:34). These continued throughout.

So the Lamanites great crime, the one that earned thousands (if not millions) of their men, women and children a violent and terrifying death, was that they didn't listen to the religious teachings of the tribe that had been their greatest enemies for dozens of generations, and who had killed thousands of their people in battle? Uh...

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Posted by: kolobian ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 03:06PM

Whoa. Great point..

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Posted by: judyblue ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 03:24PM

Someone on this board pointed out that hypocrisy a long time ago... I cannot for the life of me remember who. But since my personal journey out of TSCC had nothing to do with church history or the BoA or JS first vision accounts or anything like that, I tend to prefer using things like this to get people's minds working. I mean, really? So Jesus forgives the people who actually physically killed him, but destroys the people living half a world away who only knew him as a threat their enemies had been making for hundreds of years? Why would anybody want to worship a deity like that?

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Posted by: grubbygert nli ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 03:09PM

I like your style

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Posted by: upsidedown ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 02:13PM

Judyblume sure brings up a great point doesn't she? Why is mormonism so full of the idea that "you get what you deserve" while the more often discussed idea with the Jesus crowd of "love your neighbor" does not match? I think it is because mormonism and Christianity both are using both of these teachings and trying to select each one in seperate situations and it just gets confusing to a rational and logical thinking person.

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: August 15, 2013 03:17PM

If you want to plant seeds, then go for it. If the missionaries ask about your activity in the church, tell them you know longer believe in it. If they ask why, give them the one or both of the following print offs:

http://mormonthink.com/personalstories/A_Letter_to_a_CES_Director.pdf

http://home.teleport.com/~packham/tract.htm

Tell them you know they think they "know" the church is true so there is no point in bearing their testimonies, but they can go ahead if they really want. Tell them you've already prayed and done everything the church wants you to do in order to get a "testimony" so telling you to just ignore this stuff and just pray is not gonna work on you.

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