The plates would be on display in the church history museum.

Or, better yet, they would have been sold to pay for the printing, so Martin Harris wouldn't have to mortgage his farm.

The temple ceremony would be unchanged.

Blacks would still be excluded.

Blacks and whites would be killed if they married.

Blood atonement would still be practiced.

The BOM would be unchanged.

The Book of Commandments would be unchanged.

Disagree with a few of those you have. If the church were true...

Blacks would never have been excluded in the first place. Christ was all about INCLUSION.

No problems with blacks and whites marrying - for the same reason as above.

No blood atonement in the first place. Christ's atonement would be enough.

No temple ceremonies - same reason as above.

Agree with your statements goldenrule!!!

The point is that there are 2 ways to be "the one true religion":

1) You are on the vanguard of social change. God has knighted you to crusade for change in society. A truly inspired church would have fought for abolition, black equality, women's rights, gay rights, etc. Church leaders would be willing to go to jail and suffer unpopularity to enlighten society to its flaws. Examples: Jonah, Abinadi, Jesus, John the Baptist, Unitarian-Universalists.

2) You are the guardians of the truth. The church is perfect as is, and stands up against the pressures of society to corrupt its traditional values. You do not allow divorce, excommunicate those who try to change the church, and are willing to let the public despise you and the weaker members leave to preserve the faith. Examples: Hassidic Jews, Greek and Russian Orthodox, Mormon Fundamentalists, John Taylor.

The LDS Church falls in the middle. They are conservative, but bow to pressure. They fight against social change, but eventually succumb. They claim revelation, but really only change because society forces them. They abandoned polygamy, they finally gave blacks equality 15 years after the Civil Rights Act. They opposed working women and discouraged divorce, but Mormon women now work and 50% of LDS marriages, including temple marriages, end in divorce. They are fighting against gay rights, but their position on homosexuality is in flux and has been changing since SWK's antigay crusade in the 1960s and 1970s.

Nothing about the LDS Church says that it is either leading change or holding fast to tradition. It's just being pulled kicking and screaming along with the evolution of Western Society. Mormonism is a product of conservative social forces, not God-given revelations.

Yes! Totally agree!

There would be tongues of flame upon the heads of the ward leadership on the stand.

The dead would be raised, the sick healed, the poor cared for.

And Christ would have returned and walked among the members openly.

Where is that dude, anyways?

Then my best friend would have never become my friend

There would be more women then men in the church, due to polygamy

Joseph Smith wouldn't have gone for the methodist church 8 years after his alleged sighting of God

Yes, that issue alone should send up the red flag. JS went to the Methodist Church after he claimed all he did. WHY???? And why are Mormons so dumb they don't question it at all?

Because if they do then they're sinning and are damned and bla bla bla bla bla. But most don't even know about it. Remember the church likes to keep everything under tight wraps, because learning the truth is what drives people away from the church.

Right on, Mo's don't know because they are never told, and
ARE told to stay away from anything "anti mormon".

Also, the people in the early days of the church did not question his joining with the methodists, because they had never even heard of his supposed "First Vision". Nothing TO question from their point of view.

QUESTION: Did he actual join the Methodist church or just attend?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2011 10:33AM by think4u.

I read that they-Methodists- didn't let him join...they were on to him!!!!

Remeber- He never made the all familiar claims until long after the church had already been in existence, and the earlier versions of those claims were far less dramatic.

In fact, until 1832 nobody ever heard that he had any visit from anyone except Moroni who gave him his calling.

No friend, enemy, family, top church leader or newspaper ever reported him seeing anything greater than Moroni.

His story about the Grove experience never even entered his mind until years after the church was started.

It is true that he was with the Methodists for a little while, and having never received any constraint from God, he was perfectly free to do so.

if the church was true, it would reach out with love toward
mentally depressed, knowing its rules after all we can do
only then grace takes affect, that anyone that have to
goven himself before jesus comes to rescue with grace
can be short lived, because the real jesus does not operate
that way and requires us from the beginning to surrender
our filthy rags of rightousness and enter into christ rightousness and perfection.. There is nothing we have to
do already christ paid the price for us by his blood tho
out of love and gratitude we keep his commandments and
not have to answer to men, nor accept men robbing god
of priesthood as that ancient mosiac practise already
prooved that levite priests walked on by ignoring the
wounded lieing in a ditch while good samaritons the greater
example stopped to help..

If the church was true, every levite priest would stop
to help a wounded man more important than rushing to
get to the temple to do stinking ass touching washing
and annointings etc...

Oh cursed are the elitist behind the mormon iron curtain.

levite.

God would not get bent out of shape if you didn't wear a white shirt.

God would not get mad if you had more than one ear ring.

Names would not be recycled and re-used in the temple ceremonies.

You would see that the principles and ordinances of the gospel would have been practiced by Jesus in the New Testament and Book of Mormon. This is the main thing that made me start realizing the church was not what it claimed to be.

klj, you are so right. I love it when these kinds of things are brought to the attention of all. And they claim to be followers of Jesus.

Yes, it is my understanding that due to his illegal money-digging schemes, the Minister rejected Smith's request to join the Methodist Church. I've often wondered if it wasn't that moment which made him say, "Fine then. I'll just start my own church."

would recieve a witness. After all, that IS the promise.


The church would ACTUALLY bring happiness: So there wouldn't be a need for anti-depressants.


And Mormons would be impervious to fraud, because when people prayed about their business ventures or investments, God would tell them who the conmen are.

Utah would be the most prosperous state.

Tommy would actually act like a prophet and tell us prophecies.

#2 Dieter wouldn't have to use piloting analogies almost every time he talks. Instead, he'd really have revelations! =D

all based on the immense power of faith in metaphysical, supernatural claims just like hundreds of other God Myths throughout the (known?) history of mankind.

Same general pattern, same general organization, same purpose. Keep it going for generations, with a unique culture cemented in isolation (By Brigham Young) in the middle 1800's and it continues today.
Works every time.

Faith always over rides the need for factual evidences -- not necessary to produce anything physical. This is metaphysical faith based claims at it's best.

No golden plates were ever necessary. Just belief by faith.
No factual evidences for the BOM: just belief by faith.


The basic principle for religion in general:
Emotional bonding/attachment to traditional beliefs even if they are weird superstitions over rides logic and reason if one is constantly immersed in talk that is "truth."

such that intelligent, sincere persons couldn't believe it in good conscience.

I would have been there today.

If the church were true, there would be continuing revelation from its prophets for the benefit of mankind and for the membership.

If the church were true, it would stand as a beacon to which the righteous would flock.

If the church were true, it would be obvious to all.

If the church was true, the leaders would not need to lie so much. (From JS to TSM.)