. . . with him tell me that he is not doing well at all, physically speaking; that he is essentially physically immobilized and wheelchair-bound: that the effects of his childhood polio are becoming increasingly evident; that his power and influence in matters of broad Church governance is waning; that he is essentially being marginalized as the Mormon Church attempts behind the scenes to move past his problematic legacy; and that, for all intents and purposes, he knows (because his mental powers are still sharp) that his day has come and gone.

In other words, the sun is rapidly setting on Packer's pernicious era of callous and clueless savagery.

We shall see.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 08:19PM by steve benson.

Steve

Could this mean that he might be skipped over as becoming the next prophet When Monson dies?

If they do this I'm betting they jump to Holland, and I am on the record that this would be a major sign of LDS decline. Similar to the Soviet Union in the eighties.

Too late though, octogenarians don't move quick enough to save the dying body.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 07:35PM by gentlestrength.

. . . it was clear that in the event Packer should become Mormon Church president, he would be effectively managed and controlled against his baser instincts.

As Apostle Bruce R. McConkie observed (plagiarizing, by the way, an anonymous Arab poet): "The caravan moves on."

Those who were worried, for instance, about the anticipated negative Church-wide repercussions when controversial ideologues like Joseph Fielding Smith and Ezra Taft Benson became LDS Church president discovered that, to their relief, Smith and Benson were tightly controlled by well-seasoned Church handlers who effectively kept these men's penchant for ranting in check and who thus helped minimize harm to the Mormon Church's bigger picture of doing well in the world.

I suspect that the same will happen if and when Packer becomes head of LDS, Inc. The institutional interests of the Mormon Church have a demonstrated history of containing and overpowering even the most uninspired, extreme and obnoxious of its so-called "prophets."



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 08:13PM by steve benson.

steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As Apostle Bruce R. McConkie observed
> (plagiarizing, by the way, an anonymous Arab
> poet): "The caravan moves on."
>

"Shahdaroba"?

Maybe Bruce was a Roy Orbison fan?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyK5ew4m6JU

In theory the mechanism is there, but if it hasn't been used by now, I don't see them activating it to skip BKP.

Which leaves at least 7 in line who are 80 or older. Perry is 91! Nelson 88, which leaves Dallin Oaks at 81. He doesn't seem much better than Packer.

What's wrong with his legacy? Seemed to be more direct, than passive aggressive, which is really an issue of style not substance.

If the LDS church is a group of bigots that hates people from races other than Caucasian and homosexuals I would say he has a great legacy. Along the lines of other great and notable Mormon leaders. I do hope he survives TSM, but from external signs and this post by SB it would seem to unlikely.

Would love a prophet Boyd K. Packer, such a spokesperson for God and Christ would be hard to recreate. He needs to make the group painting in the Celestial Room.

. . . intellectuals--the three specific groups Packer publicly warned against and viciously targeted during the "September Six" era that launched in the 1990s.

The Mormon Church is still suffering from Packer's extrordinary excesses committed during that period.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 07:56PM by steve benson.

I would imagine cartoonists like yourself would have a 'FIELD DAY' making fun of BKP as Profit.

Especially from his lowly position in a wheelchair...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 08:16PM by breedumyung.

Sorry, 'indefensible' (to me,anyway) means that the position/person have No Support / supporters.
While we can't quantify the extent of the extremist Uber-Nazi TBMs influence/power, we know they're present on the scene, and they don't like to Hold Their Peace...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 08:26PM by guynoirprivateeye.

. . . clearly implied, given my posts earlier in this thread condemning his views.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 08:27PM by steve benson.

unfortunately, they're tied together 1:1 in the LDS context.

. . . majority here--being ex-Mormons often sharing sets of generally common values and experiences (if not always perfectly aligned)--understand that Packer is being held to a higher moral standard that is foreign to the primitive, historical and practiced Mormon religious mindset.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 08:38PM by steve benson.

The Internet failed me SB, I was hoping you could see the smirk on my face. His legacy and CES were a big part of my adolescence, although I was having a blast enjoying life when he did his September Six work.

I was trying to suggest that BKPs legacy will be as it was intended. Old Testament, definitive, hammer like, the grizzly bear--whatever else communicates authoritarian, controlling, and final. I am sure the stories of him not playing well with other apostles are true, but I am also sure he is seen as a valuable tool in the apostle golf bag.

I just want his legacy to overlap with the legacy of a Mormon prophet, so much better than if he were to die, the prophet in waiting. I don't imagine he can or would do much until he too dies, but he serves my purposes best as the prophet that hated people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 09:32PM by gentlestrength.

Interesting, Steve.

So Packer's mind is still sharp, but his his body has failed him? That must be a special kind of hell for someone who once wielded so much "power."

. . . and to the worst of us, with Nature's messenger of death ultimately paying a house call to us all as no respecter of persons.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 08:44PM by steve benson.

For those that love him, this must be a difficult time for them.

. . . for them.

Who do you know that loves him?

Well let's be fair here, we have no reason to doubt that sister Packer, his kids, and grandkids fall into that category.

Beyond that, there's a number of morgbots who will feel distress at his infirm health.

Of course, most will be like my TBM family who said "Packer is looking old" and then went about their business.

. . . loves him and told me how he admired his uncle Boyd's artistic side that in private life manifests itself in nature paintings and woodcarvings of birds. He also said Packer has a gentler, personal aspect to his personality that many people do not often see.

Just sayin.'



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 09:10PM by steve benson.

Let them get upset on exmormon.org about his failing health. I don't know anyone who loves him, and there are plenty of lifelong wives who don't love their husbands, they just didn't leave.

I don't love him. I think he's a pretty horrible man that lived a horrible life. I'm not too worried about the family's of other bad people when they die either. I should be able to speak critically of them without considering the feelings of their loved ones, if they have any. I'll need to hear it from Myrtle Packer herself that she loves him.

I believe BKP played a huge role in the decision to promote only the sanitized version of church history and to shut down access to the church archive in the period following Leonard Arrington.

I think this decision has had an enormous negative impact on church membership today. This decision resulted in people feeling like they've been lied to once they learned the real history.

This will BKP's real legacy. He was so fearful of truth, ideas and open information that he made a decision that ended up causing the mass apostasy we see today.

Interesting comments, but can someone explain to me why the passing of the ball to BKP Is even mentioned in this board when TMS looks pretty healty compared to the others and in fact is quite younger in camparison? Maybe I am wrong but I think we will have Monson for quite some time

. . . to become Church president, based on the seniority system. My OP didn't focus on the probabilities in that regard; it was simply an update on his present condition and how his sun is setting.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 08:59PM by steve benson.

Thanks for the info. Steve

the Irony of these situations.... TBMs will tell us that 'God / HF is in control'....

Right.

Under the articles of incorporation I dont think there is a choice.
It must be the senior apostle.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong

According to Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (p259) the church introduced the Emeritus program in October 1978, though he points out that it has never been used for an Apostle or President, in spite of requests to do so by aging apostles.

He goes on to state that "the most likely response in the event the senior apostle is incapacitated would be for the Twelve not to organize a First Presidency until a more able-bodied senior member was able to take over."

. . . is supposed to work in situations of presidential succession, but was ignored in the case of ETB.

As a bit of background, I informed Quinn of Hinckley and Monson's surreptitious 1989 power grab to run LDS, Inc., accomplished by using ETB's own office autopen machine to transfer authority from ETB to them in secret, by way of ETB's faked signature and without ETB even being present when this was done.

Quinn found the episode significant enough to write that Monson and Hinckley secretly conspired to angle themselves into the position of operating as the de facto Mormon Church president, in clear violation of official Mormon Church governing procedure:

"By May 1989 . . . counselors [Hinckley and Monson] felt it necessary to execute legal documents giving them Ezra Taft Benson's 'power of attorney [which] shall not be affected by his "disability" or "incompetence.'"

"However, Benson was already affected by that 'disability.'

"Despite a notarized statement by the First Presidency's secretary, President Benson did not sign those documents himself. A signature machine produced Benson's identical signatures on these legal documents.

"Without public acknowledgment, this machine-signed document formally ended an official provision for dissolving the First Presidency that had been in print for ninety years. Since 1899 the book 'Articles of Faith,' 'Written By Appointment; and Published By the Church,' had specified that the 'First Presidency is disorganized through the death or disability of the President.'

"However, this 1989 document specified that the counselors would not dissolve the First Presidency or surrender their powers despite the fact of the church president's 'disability' or 'incompetence.'

"The current apostles have supported this policy, even though the officially published 'Articles of Faith' continues to specify that when there is 'disability of the President, the directing authority in [church] government reverts at once to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles." (D. Michael Quinn, "The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power" [Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books], pp. 58-59,; fn 243-245, p. 432)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 09:24PM by steve benson.

. . . as Church president. Then the next senior apostle in line becomes acting president. But, hey, the Mormon Church has never been known to be a stickler when it comes to adhering to even its own outlined rules and regs.

In this case, however, it may be wise for the Boys at the Top to play the "he's-not-able-to-function-because-he's-incapacitated" card and look past him to someone else to sit in the president's chair, in the best interests of the ever-PR-conscious Mormon Church.

This is kind of like picking the next candidate from the Politburo to rule Russia, while those on the outside try to guess what's going on behind the curtain among the powerbrokers ultimately making the choice.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 09:30PM by steve benson.

I remember my state side mission president used to speak about Packer all the time and very highly of him because Packer was his mish pres when he was an Elder.

I am so sorry to hear it, Steve. I would love to see a President Packer.

...make that comparison to Soviet Russia. It makes me think of foreign policy geeks going over photos of the Kremlin wall on May Day with magnifying glasses, checking poll positions and rank, wild with speculation and anticipation. And you beat me to it!

But, a serious question, which redirects the thread a bit: You allege, "...Hinckley and Monson's surreptitious 1989 power grab to run LDS, Inc., accomplished by using ETB's own office autopen machine to transfer authority from ETB to them in secret..." (post, today, above). Accepting this as true, does this explain those major Temple changes of 1990? Would they have been already in process, requiring more time than the partial year to develop and execute? Perhaps Monson and Hinkley had them already developed, and executed this palace coup so that they could put them in place.

If my hypothesis is correct, the implications answer, in the affirmative, the question, "Does the leadership at the highest rank of the GAs know that the religion is false?" and are cynically continuing the fraud to some end.

Maybe I'm weird, but I sort of feel bad for someone like Packer. Here is a man who has devoted his entire life to bullshit, and it has so warped him that he has with relish attacked and hurt his fellow human beings, mocked those in pain, and convinced himself that human life must be crammed into a prefabricated box, or it's defective.

If there is an afterlife, he's in for a shock. If there isn't, he's wasted his life. For a stupid. fucking. cult.