I belong to a local moms group and posted a question in there today asking them about how they handle tank tops and shorts for their younger children. (I had read a comment on the "shoulders 2 the wheel" facebook movement to teach girls that shoulders are okay). Here are some of the responses, which perhaps not oddly enough, focus mostly on girls rather than boys. I know we've talked here about what in the heck people are thinking, so I thought I'd share what the commented.


" I always put white shirts under any tank tops or dresses... The shorts are hard cause they make those short but my girl is only 2. Probably around 6, 7 or 8 ill make sure all shorts are longer. Never sleeveless unless its over a swimsuit.thats just my opinion."

"Our kids don't wear tank tops unless its way to hot at night for them but not outside the house. if my daughters dress are sleeveless she wear and under shirt, if they don't touch her knees when she sits and stands they go to the pass me down drawer same with the boys for shorts."

"As a toddler, I'm cool with it, personally. Once they start to get older (my daughter is turning 4 and we're buying only modest clothes now) I phase into the modest clothing we'd like to see her wearing from then on."

"When my kids were under 2 I wasn't as worried about it. They would overheat easily and I wanted to keep them comfortable. Although, if the temperatures weren't really high, I'd usually put a shirt underneath. After my kids were 2 they would wear shorts to their knees, and their shirts had sleeves. I think it's much easier to teach them modesty if they've never known any different."

"I tried to maintain "garment" standards from the get-go . . . it's hard enough to navigate through those pre-teen, teen years without trying to "change" their clothing standards. Once you start on that "slippery" slope it's hard to reverse course."

"I try not to have my kids (son and daughter) wear the tank shirts at all, even if they're thick/wide ones, out and about. I always have a shirt under my daughter's sleeveless dresses.
I try with the shorts for my daughter (2) to keep them close to her knee, but she's tall and skinny so sometimes they seem kinda short to me. I've bought Pants-Catchers to cinch them in and have them wear bigger sizes to try and keep the shorts/skirts longer.
One of my friends adds ruffles to the bottom of shorts to make them longer too
I just think if you start them young, even as babies then it will be easier when they're older."

" I feel like when immodesty becomes an issue during puberty, that is too late to teach them to be modest. start young, why allow it if you are just going to change it the rules later?"

"I have often wondered the same thing. I have 3 girls and 2 boys and this has definitely been a topic of conversation for us in our house. We don't let our kids wear sleeveless. Now they do have a lot of dresses that are and some shirts, but we try to make sure that they have a shirt under or a sweater on top. I just decided that we can teach them all we can from the time they are born, and then by the time they are old enough to buy their own clothes, hopefully they make good choices about it. We will let them wear them to bed sometimes but that is it. They only fight me sometimes now. Its hard. I just didn't want to be forced to draw the line when I have been letting them wear them for so long. So we just decided to draw the line from the time they are born. If that all makes sense!! I'm not opposed to other people feeling differently either. This is just the rules for our house."

"We decided so that we don't have to explain later why they could and now they can't that we would just have sleeves on everything. It's not very hard to find cute ruffle or nice under shirts around here and personally I think sun dresses look better and much cuter when worn with sleeves. We have about two or three shirts for each of my girls that they are only allowed to wear as undershirts so that they don't wear out as fast. And then for the dresses that don't look good with a shirt underneath we have a few short sleeve cardigans for them to wear over.

Shorts have been a little harder because they stopped carrying longer shorts for a while but we searched hard and have been able to find knee length shorts for our girls. We've also gotten GREAT prices on them too so we're not paying anymore for a more modest style.

We are also pretty strict about swimsuits and they must be one pieces. I do have a rash guard style top and separate bottom for my baby that was gifted to us but where it is a full coverage situation we do have her wear that in rotation with her one piece. When our girls are in swim suits we do let them wear a sleeveless cover/sundress because it fits the activity.

When they are older and play sports if their uniform calls for certain requirements then we'll deal with that when we get there. I played sports on HS and had to wear certain things but when I was traveling and could be more modest, I was. We would like our kids to make those choices when they're older so we'll try to teach them now.

Something that has helped us keep our rules is we were open about our stance with our families and asked that they keep sleeves and things like that in mind when they sent gifts. Because of that everyone has respected our wishes and has always helped us dress our kids the way we'd like, even though my stepsister and sisters-in-law don't have the same "rules" we have. We respect everyone's right to choose what is best for their families and don't judge either if they choose to dress their kids differently."

There are two redeeming posts so far which deserve equal attention and props.

"As someone who is not lds I am not as opposed to these "unmodest" clothing as most people in rexburg. however I also have absolutely no problem with my children playing with children who do have dress codes. I would hate to have my children believe that they couldnt be friends with someone just because of how they dressed. Thats simply silly."

"I think swim suits are tricky. My daughter, who is almost 11, has grown SO tall in the last few months. One pieces in her size stretch too much to either reveal her top or her bottom. And bigger sizes gape open...We went with a tankini this summer and it has been a life saver. She totally stays covered."

Some new comments:

"For us growing up after the young toddler ages it was pretty black and white. Dont dress immodest. Weather is not really a exception. It has to be a lifestyle. Even for prom. Shauls come off and the dresses where people sew on sleeves aren't really sleves. My sister tried to buy a strapless dress my mom made her return it even though she would only get store credit. Stick to your guns. Talk about consequences and follow through!"

"at our house, its the standard, not the law, to wear "modest" clothing. Sleeves (at least a little bit) and as long as we can get on the legs. It is impossible to find shorts that come all the way to the knees, so we just say no "short shorts". Its actually pretty easy to find. those days when it is SOOO HOT ( like this week) we spend a lot of time in swimming suits. And as far as those go, we decided no bikinis or speedos. I love tankinis because they are so convenient. My daughter is tall and skinny, so they tend to reveal a lot around the middle, so I have had to buy one piece suits a size big. I pretend like i'm going to take in the sides, but it never happens."

"We ask my daughter to wear swim shorts because half of her swimsuits are too big in the bum, she's SUPER skinny and SUPER tall so the fit is hard to get right and that way her shorts help keep private things private. Once they're out of swim diapers we use shorts to keep things covered. The shorts she has are shorter than knee length but again, they fit the activity and aren't immodest in other ways.

We also have her wear spandex like shorts or leggings under her dresses for church. As a primary teacher and a mom who frequently takes my kids to the water "parks" around town I see too many little girls not knowingly show of areas of their body's they don't understand they're supposed to keep private at the ages they are. I'm not someone who has "issues" with that and will remind the children in my class and say something when needed but I know that there are people who do, even here in Rexburg, and in order to keep my kids out of a bad situation I've decided that I need to understand that kids are kids and its going to take time to teach them to keep their dresses down and to "cross their legs" so in order to help keep their innocence we have our daughters just wear an extra layer to cover their bums or panties when those situations come into question."

"we have two boys and one little girl. I always dress her modest. Might as well set the example and standard now. I have a friend with 4 girls. By the 2nd or 3rd the older girls were asking, well, why does younger sister get to wear that and I don't. It's easier to make it a general standard for everyone"

Well, if they want the kids to dress modestly later on, it is easier to start early rather than fight with them later about why they now can't wear what they've always worn. That makes sense.

And modesty in itself is a good virtue, as it teaches girls that their bodies deserve respect and aren't just objects to be misused by others.

But there is no need to take it to the extreme. Nor is there a need to avoid playing with kids whose families have a slightly lower or higher standard than their own family.

Dang! My only rule regarding tank tops for my girls was that their bra strap couldn't show. WHAT is the big freaking deal? These people are nuts!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2013 05:30PM by wine country girl.

That was the rule in my TBM family too. We were allowed to wear tank tops if we could where a bra with it and the bra straps didn't show. I wore a 2 piece swimsuit, and so did all of my friends.

I wasn't raised Mormon, but I also had that rule about tank tops where the bra strap had to be covered.

I find the fact this is an actual topic at all regarding dressing a child that young in sleeves as a requirement, very creepy.
What is the purpose in covering the shoulders of a prepubescent child? So priesthood holders won't lust?

I think it is all about moms bragging about how fervent and spiritual they and their families are in front of others so they can feel proud and admired.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2013 05:39PM by snuckafoodberry.

I think they don't want a battle when they are a teen so they start early.

I don't see anything wrong with a teen in a tank top either though.

I wonder if these moms realize that there was a time when it really wasn't such a big deal what young women wore before they went through the temple.

In the 70's LDS teen girls wore sleeveless and short shorts. But by 90's my ward members were making their daughters wear long long shorts and sleeves. (But they promptly rolled them up when they got to school.) It's a big deal in PHX. Heck out in Sun City you can see all the retirees wearing sleeveless and mid thigh shorts, it's called a golfing outfit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2013 07:46PM by crom.

"Hi. I'm a wife and mother of a beautiful six-month-old daughter. I always make sure my baby girl has her shoulders covered - that means short-sleeved onesies underneath all those immodest sun dresses Gramma keeps buying her! I also make sure her thighs are completely obscured from view. I think this is really important, because 20 years from now my little girl will have to wear magic underwear to protect her from the devil.

And I'm a Mormon."

I dare you to post that. :)

I didn't get this was satire at first and it was making me angry.

Overcoming the shoulder thing with my own daughters was something I just recently, last six months, was able to do.

Becoming less and less brainwashed. Hooray for me!

My mom made my sister and I wear undershirts under our clothes. Even t-shirts. We HATED it. I think it was so we would be prepared to have garments. We always wanted to wear a sundress. As a result what I wore out of the house in high school was only my "outer" clothes. I dressed terribly skimpy. I received a lot of attention and I loved it. Mostly cause my dad had nothing to do with me and I loved the positive male attention. From 17-19 I'd guess my mid-drift was covered maybe 20% of the time.

Where does all this lead? To crazy looking women at the LDS singles dances who wear dresses obviously made to be worn by themselves with a long sleeved shirt under them to make them modest, but they look weird as hell! Then they wonder why they are single. No offense to the singles, but I just happened to drop by one night several months ago and saw a woman with a strapless black dress on with a long sleeved white button down shirt underneath it. She was sooo sexy!

+100!

It's true.

Problem is, the people who serve as "chaperones" (door guards, bouncers, whatever you want to call them) check people at the door (at least where I live). Those who show shoulders or thigh can't get into the dance.

Besides, there are a lot of prudish single Mormon men out there, the kind who would either faint from shock or call the women whores and harlots for wearing non-garment-friendly clothing.

RUFFLES! . . . on shorts! My sister has done this to my nieces and I could tell they were self conscious . . . Because 4-inch ruffles on denim shorts was freakin' weird!!!! If tube tops come back in style she can have her girls wear them over t-shirts with their badass ruffle shorts. I could barf up my funeral potatoes just thinking about it!

Oh, the one comment so far that addresses boys shows a double standard.

"I've never thought about it with my little guy. We just don't buy tanks for him because its not something my husband or our brothers wore so its never been something we've talked about. I guess they're okay. Can't see why not."

So, boy shoulders are okay but girl shoulders are immodest?

Ruffles on the denim shorts and three layers of t-shirts is screaming "I am a mormon dork!" I feel sorry for these kids because they are being made to feel self conscious about stuff that causes OCD on the topic of modesty and normal kids don't think much about the topic of modesty or immodesty. They just dress themselves how ever they want.

My wife saw some kids at the mall here in San Diego and pointed out they were a group of mormon kids immediately. She says they stand out like the Amish with the weird fashion ideas.

Can the burkha be far behind?

Back in Brigham Young's day it was exposure of the female forearm that was considered highly immodest. People got all exercised when women wore the popular "bell sleeves", in which the part of the sleeve below the elbow opened wide like a bell and did not cover the arm.

Did anyone ever stop to think that religious rules/policies dealing with clothing nearly always impact women much more than men? Observe the people in any religious sect where clothing sets them apart from the non-members. The men look pretty normal and sometimes really good, but the restrictions land straight on the women and girls. It's the women who end up looking mousey, plain, frumpy and dull. Mustn't let a guy's "property" look good to anybody else -- or even to herself. If she looks good to herself, she just might be confident enough to live life on her own, without being "owned".

This has nothing to do with looking slutty! Let's have a cheer for the right to bare arms.

I'm old enough to remember tube tops and hot pants, and always wore a bikini until I was too fat to look good in one.

Will these girls learn to dress properly to get out of the house and then change into something else?

"One pieces in her size stretch too much to either reveal her top or her bottom. "

That means that's not her size. These people need to look for Tall varieties in the same sizes.

I buy a lot of cheap crap from Old Navy. Often, the dresses are not quite appropriate as professional wear, mainly because they are a tad short. Now, I'm all for dressing slutty, but not at the office (mostly because the AC is always blasting and I get cold). So I buy my size but in Tall (normally my size is petite). That gets me the length I need while it still fits.

If those sizes aren't available wherever these people shop, they're going to have to spend more in higher-end shops. Modesty can be expensive.

Here's a concept - teach your boys to respect women no matter what kind of clothing they are wearing. And teach your boys to learn to control themselves.

I always think it's such bull crap that women are responsible for the thoughts and actions of another human being just by what they're wearing. It's the same stupid reasoning that the hard-core Muslim cultures use to keep women covered from head to toe. Yet there is still plenty of rape and sexual abuse in those countries, so it's obviously not working.

I am the mother of a boy. His father and I plan on teaching him that it's his own responsibility to control his thoughts and actions. We also plan to teach him that women don't need to change their behaviors to help him learn self-control.

Also, if I were male, this assumption that I have no self control and want to rape every woman who is showing a bit of shoulder would really make me angry. This attitude acts like men are children, not grown adults.

Agreed! Men should have the full responsibility to control their senses. But this world can be a dangerous place, as there have been so many who don't control their senses, so it's also better for women to exercise caution and take precautions to avoid harm.

Modesty in itself is a positive value to pass on, that teaches women to have their bodies respected, and not relegated to the status of mere objects of attraction for others' enjoyment. And it's definitely easier to make modesty a habit when they are young. But one doesn't have to push "modesty" too far.