I have been lurking and look forward to jumping in and discussing.

My DH and I took the kids and ran. OK, not that dramatic, but I stopped attending before DH and kids. I could not live the lie anymore and was increasingly unhappy and depressed. So I stopped going. Never expecting to completely leave and surely never thought I'd ever remove my protection of the garment. However, we are done. DH has just come to the realization that he is done completely and so now it's trying to live the way we'd like without "damaging" the kids. We have told them we weren't returning to church and they were cool with it. However, we pull out tea (herbal at that) or PERO and we get lectured from our older 2. How do we get past that? Creative way to say "hey, I raised you to believe this is all evil, but it's not, so no panicking if you see us with a beer, coffee or tea"?? Anyways, that is the point of our struggle right now, we have NOT told the family on either side. They know we are not attending but nothing further. I am really happy to know we are not alone nor are we the only ones. :)

You could start by educating them and yourselves on what is healthful and what is not. Read articles written by doctors and scientists in the medical field. It's not JUST that whatever LDS said is wrong is right. Smoking is still a bad idea, even though coffee is not.

Great advice!

Congrats on getting out TOGETHER!!! You two are under a lucky star.

You're so called problem will fade shortly I'm sure, but if it doesn't, learn to make a good cup of Earl Grey tea with the right amount of milk and sugar and the kids will get on board.

Happy for you!

Maybe you can show them the research that shows it actually healthy for them. Tell them that millions of people take it every day and it's not addictive (not true for coffee) and it doesn't cost much.

Start asking your kids to think rationally about the things that are done. Let go of belief all together. Help you kids develop skepticism and rational thinking.

If they are old enough ask them if they want to watch an R rated movie.

You might want to pick up some books on self-esteem and critical thinking. Do some FHE. The kids seem to have some Mormon baggage, they might still believe on some level.

Help them get work through the issues that Mormonism creates. Self-esteem, critical thinking, being assertive are all skills I lacked after leaving. I have had to read up on these skills and practice them.

Welcome to RfM!


To answer your question, I think you could point out that the Morgue doesn't quite understand that items contained in the word of wisdom actually do have use. Asthmatics often drink coffee while having an attack because it is easily obtained, and it causes dilation (not sure where, sorry!) which allows the individual to breath.

You could also point out that the WoW was actually intended to be advice for members of the Morgue. The SLC temple used to have spitoons in it so the men wouldn't have to spit their tobaccoo on the floor.

so happy for you and your family. Now an exploration and learning time begins.

Now you can teach your children the truth. Find studies done on tea and coffee. There are plenty of them. This and alcohol is where moderation in all things come in. Well, I wouldn't say ALL things. There are some things that we're better off not having. You can tell them that the church was wrong about some things, and so were you!

Now you get to make decisions for your family, instead of a bunch of people at church headquarters. It's a much better way to live.

Without giving advice I think you are being given an opportunity to challenge the concept of "sin".

Not drinking coffee or tea or alcohol is fine as is drinking them as well (preferably in moderation).

What is not fine is assigning evil to things that are not evil.

It is something that will,be a great opportunity for parenting and childhood development. You no longer have an accountant ledger for good and bad choices. Somewhat distressing, but ultimately empowering and it will open up opportunities to associate with many people formerly and wrongly considered to be sinners when you were Mormons.

Welcome to the board and congrats on seeing the light!! Were the kids happy to leave and what ages?

I think if I was a kid or teen and had been conditioned in the mormon way it would be really weird to see my parents drink, especially at first, even if I was glad not to go to church anymore. I think talking with them and letting them know good people can drink those things without excess and it is fine and a little time passing will help. Also that people who don't have the same beliefs don't live like you do and it's just that way and that we shouldn't judge. I know I was really bad with my judgements of others when I was younger even if they weren't raised the way I was because I was taught X at church plus had it reemphasized by parents and it took until my early 20s to get better at not holding others to my same standards.

If my parents had left when I was younger and still believed I know I would have taken it really hard if I still believed and would have felt really betrayed by them changing their lifestyle to include coffee, tea and alcohol but even if I had been glad to leave it would still be an adjustment. If they have mormon friends they could be hearing some things from them that they are influenced by.

My kids are 13, 10 and 6. My 13 year old said "I am okay with it, at least I don't have to pay tithing". I laughed at that. My 10 yr old could care less and said "good". My 6 year old keeps saying she wants to go to church. She has fun there and I get it, but I am much against it. I don't want them to grow up feeling like we do!

Also I left out that I would make sure they know all the reasons, historical etc. explaining why you are no longer subscribing to the beliefs of that religion so they don't think you "left to sin".

I had already heard adults talk about other adults going apostate to sin at the age of 13. I would drive home to them that trying those drinks is a side effect of no longer subscribing to the mormon beliefs and not the reason you left. I would be open with them that you decided against going to church anymore for good documented reasons involving the mormon church not being what it claimed to be and now making your own judgements on those drinks.

Oh how I hated paying tithing as a kid. I think that would be enough to get a kid out.

I agree! My dad would tell us we had to pay on ANY money given; whether earned, birthday, gift, whatever, we had to pay on it. That used to make me mad. I am so grateful for gift cards. lol

Thank you all! Great suggestions and I appreciate it. I'll let you know as we progress into apostasy.

Congratulations. Getting out together is a real plus. What ages are your kids? Age will determine what you do and don't talk to them about. If they have some fear programming about going to hell and shame about breaking rules you could try introducing them to the idea that it is good to make your own rules/values as a family. Family before Church type of thing.

Make fun outings on Sundays and point out that they would not be possible if you were sitting in church instead of on the beach/mountains/river/movies/etc. They will get the point and re-prioritize their values quickly to put family fun over boring meetings. You could even say you think that it is what you feel as a family that is what god wants you to do (if you are going to raise them to believe in god).

They will most likely see the truth easily (because kids are smart and like to be on the correct side of the facts) if you point out the age of the earth, dinosaurs, humans appearing on earth approx 20,000 years ago, no evidence of Noah's ark great flood, etc., etc...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2013 02:16AM by upsidedown.

Sounds like plenty of drama to me.

Good luck and good wishes.

LOL!! And I so HATE drama.

Welcome!

We had the sit down with our kids. We explained that we found out we were wrong. We let them know adults make mistakes and learn too. We told them that for many years we didn't do our homework and we were letting our church too much of our thinking.

We explained that we sorry for confusing them but at the time that is all we knew. Now we have more information and we will be honest with them.

Our kids understood and respected that we didn't try to make up stuff to lie about it.

Take your time about telling your extended family too much. In my opinion, sometimes you can give people too much information and make it worse. One side of my family I wish we had never told. The other side we never told the extent of our disbelief. Thankfully we didn't live close and I could get away with it.

My family just thinks I am extremely busy and a little eccentric maybe. I just joke and change the subject a lot if it gets too close to my reality. To be honest they are so busy talking about their Mormon world that it doesn't occur to them that others might not actually believe. They usually tolerate a jack Mormon OK but if they knew just how far out I am they would be very uncomfortable.

Only you can judge how to react to family. Just know that right now it is fresh for you and you might over react. I've never regretted things I didn't say.

Remember too that if extended family sees the beer and coffee, they immediately have justification for their view that people who leave can't keep their standards (eye roll). I wasn't about to give them that satisfaction. Over the years me not going to church has become a non issue. I just didn't want to be in their face about it at first.

OTOH, others have had good experiences coming out and putting it on the table.

Good luck however you decide to handle everything!

Thank you very much. Neither side knows anything except we don't go. Honestly, the longer I can sing that tune the better. My father will flip, so I prefer to keep it quiet for a very long time! Thankfully all of our families live far away except a sibling and we walk carefully because we don't need the judgments or opinions.

We have not done anything outward WOW wise yet. But, I feel like I am living in a cave and kind of tired of it. I am in my late 30's and let the church dictate for too long what I will and won't do.

Anyways, I like how you told your kids and I am going to discuss that with DH and see what we come up with. Thank you and everyone for the input. I am open to it. :)

You are definitely NOT the only ones. I felt a connection to your post. When we discovered the truth I was 38, my kids were 13,11,7, and 4. Although I had many fears, the one that concerned me the most was "damaging" my kids and losing all credibility with them as their Dad. We stopped attending 4 years ago and resigned last year. It has been tricky at times, but AMAZING - personally, maritally, parentally, and our overall family.

Keep posting, there may be some bumps and uncertainties along the way, and this is a great place to get support, blow off steam, and frequently find an irreverent laugh.

Best wishes for you and yours.

Congratulations on getting out of the cult TOGETHER! You will read a lot of stories here, about families who have been split apart, and I'm happy to read a good story like yours.

Yes, it does help to know that there are others out there, who have gone through similar experiences.

Most of the WOW is enforced in order to control the members. Ask your kids why it is OK to drink caffeine cold out of a Big Gulp cup, and not hot out of a coffee cup? Why are so many Mormons fat because they eat too much meat, every day, and not "only in times of famine?"

Mormons like control. Mormons didn't make up the slogan, "Don't drink and drive." No one should do that, and no one should smoke. Tobacco in the WOW referred to chewing tobacco, anyway. Did you know that Joseph Smith ran a bar on the main floor of his house?

Utah has the highest use of antidepressants, and the highest abuse of painkillers. The WOW has too many gaps and contradictions in it. An adult should be free to eat and drink what they want, as long as it doesn't harm others (drunk drivers, second-hand smoke, drugs (not mentioned in WOW) obesity (a huge killer not mentioned in the WOW).

to obey the WoW (or other Mormon rules), I think you should also explain that sometimes even though you NOW know it's okay to [insert whatever it is], it still feels a little uncomfortable. And that isn't because it's wrong. It's because you've been trained to feel guilty and scared about doing it, and there are still strong social pressures to conform.

Something that helped me: After I left the church, I learned about things that people who leave OTHER religions are afraid to do. And some of them are pretty ridiculous (like not cutting your hair). How ridiculous it must look to non-mormons to be afraid of drinking coffee or tea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2013 01:36AM by imaworkinonit.

Ask your six year old if a 14 is a good age to get married at.
Mention one of your oldest child's friends to make the point. Then ask your six year old their opinion about an old man (37) marrying someone they can never recoginize in public or go arm in arm as husband and wife.
Would they think it okay if the 14 year old had a child the next year and no father to name them?
Etc.

Teach them the rock in the hat, the seven different versions of the first vision that weren't written down until 1838...eight years after the church was formed.

Get a copy of the first printing of the BOM and ask your child to read it and find the grammar errors....etc.

Show them the BOA fraud with the drawings of a man substituted for Horus dog head....etc.

Lots of things for them to know.


The six year old needs a downsizing time of friends and fellowship to fill their group socialzation needs. Maybe enroll them in a swim class, arts and crafts...take them to Farmers Markets to meet the Artists and what they create.
We have fresh produce, plants and cut flowers at ours, along with carved wooden pens,bowls, fresh cooked doughnuts, scones, baklava,jams, jellies, berries,a knife sharpener, hand dyed wools that are being knit/woven by the artist at the booth, wooden signs, medicinal plants, mushrooms, "natural" eggs, and bison/beef meat. About the only thing we don't have is pony rides, but the fall farm festival open houses are just around the corner.

Give them something to look forward to so they don't feel the hole the church activities have left in their social life.