My dad was diagnosed with dimentia recently. I went with him and my mother to the appointment. It's mostly mild still, with occasional episodes of extreme confusion and panic.

I took him fishing after the appointment, and while we were alone, he opened up to me with the statement in the heading. Was this his dimentia talking? I was not anticipating utterances on the topic, and the words stood out for lack of context, but also because I dismissed that thinking decades ago, even before I left the church. Another reason for the starkness of dad's admission, I think, was the fact that I haven't heard much of the 2nd coming theme buzzing in the air from official church statements or from my tbm siblings recently. Maybe i'm left out of the loop?

So I'm wondering, how much is Christ's return on the minds of Mormons these days? How urgent is preparation? Or is it a backburner issue, something less timely for now, a card to play when things are even more dire like when a real ga defects or the mall fails?

While his dementia could lead to random statements, I don't think it is the source of the statement itself. The second coming is always lingering in the background, and often brought to the foreground. My TBM family members will often point out their perceived increase in "wars, and rumors of wars" and comment that the second coming must be nigh.

My mom thinks this too. She's got a lot of reasons, including one involving the Pope and some legend about the "last Pope" before Jesus comes again. Apparently the current Pope has all the qualifications. She also thinks this missionary push is the last gathering before the missionaries are called back. If she says one more time "from my house it shall go forth" I swear I'm going to run amok. She is very worried about her friends in and around Salt Lake because she thinks they are due for some serious destruction based on the above scripture. It doesn't occur to her that it may refer to Israel OR that it HAS been going forth in the world for years, from various disaster and war locales.

And no, it's not dementia in her case because she's been like this for decades. It's only recently that she has been so sure it's on the doorstep. She's also using it to try to scare me into church activity again, unaware I'd rather go to my doom with the heathens than go to Mormon heaven.

I agree that his mental problems were part of the issue. Still, I remember feeling as a fervently-attempting-to-believe youth that there was a lot of emphasis on 2nd coming related activity and mindfulness that doesn't seem credible since the turn of the millennium a dozen years ago. I think there were exalted higher-ups, including apostles, who were convinced it would all be over then, and haven't felt comfortable using the 2nd coming to manipulate members with that brand of urgency ever since the non-event.

I haven't been to church in years, but I felt a similar urgency circa early 1980's. In that era you had the convergence of the millenium and mutually assured destruction from Nuclear War as an everyday concept. I remember not being able to watch "The Day After" because my parents thought it might ruin all hope for a 13 year old boy. The end of days was definitely a real concept in those days.

For instance, Boyd K. Packer recently stated the following in General Conference (October 2011), specifically addressing the church's young people:

"Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: 'The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.' Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/counsel-to-youth?lang=eng


However, from other statements made by General Authorities, one gets the feeling that they believe the Second Coming is not far off. For example, Dallin H. Oaks said (April 2004):

"These signs of the Second Coming are all around us and seem to be increasing in frequency and intensity."
...
"...[T]he accelerating pattern of natural disasters in the last few decades is ominous."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2004/04/preparation-for-the-second-coming?lang=eng


When I hear the subject coming up among my extended TBM family, there is also a range of opinions, although it seems those who believe in the imminence of the Second Coming do outnumber the others.

My dad is certain that the second coming is imminent too. Since I've been alive he's been certain that it will happen in:

1987: Black Monday
1990: Gulf War
1995: OKC bombing
1999: Y2K
2000: Y2K continued
2001: Twin Towers
2002: Stock Market Downturn
2003: Iraq Invasion
2008: Financial Crisis
2012: End of Mayan Calendar

He has gotten progressively depressed throughout his life as each event did not cause jesus to descend on a white horse. He is now in his mid 60's and was just recently treated for cancer. You'd think he'd realize that he's going to die anyway and would want to enjoy the final years of his life. But no, he would rather watch the world burn. mormonism has really f'd him up.

I'm surprised he missed the death of Kimball. I was always told that his death would be the second coming since he was the 12th modern prophet (replacing the 12 apostles).

The church is up to 16 now? Oops.

Since every generation beginning with that of Joseph Smith has been told that the second coming would come during their lifetime, I think it is normal for your dad to think it is coming soon because he is getting older, feeling his age and thinking about his own mortality. He believed what he was told by the church so the time must be near.

Note that "imminent" means that it can happen suddenly, not that it will happen soon. Why can't these people read the Bible? "No man knows the hour..." how plain can you get? And in Acts 1, an angel tells the crowd that "this Jesus will return in the same manner..." No mention of a white horse.

The white horse part comes from Rev. 19:11-21.

Sorry to hear about your dad. I lost mine to Pick's and know how tough this will be.

My exTBM spouse was told in his psychic reading that he'd be alive during the 2nd coming.....

Mention of the second coming of jeeehus during a psychic reading.

That's like gullibility X 10 or something.

Did he share during F&T meeting?

;)

I believe "pyshcic reading" is an ex-mo euphemism for patriarchcal blessing.

The destruction of the Earth is imminent, FYI.

I haven't heard it emphasized in a long time. I do remember several lessons on the second coming.

It's probably just something that lingers in the back of his mind and he thought it would make good discussion while fishing.

Our Sun only has around 5 billion years of fuel left. Fact. Consider yourself warned neighbor.

Thank you. I'll mark my calendar.

Be sure to add an additional 10,000 years to compensate for the time it will take us to realize it:)

As for the OP: Very common for oldsters to seriously start contemplating their own demise. I wouldn't stock up on any extra food or ammo just yet...the veil is not thinning because Dad is seeing the end of the trail.

If anyone here believes in biblical scripture and its accuracy , I think in the Book of Matthew is plainly states that the gospels will be in every nation , tongue , etc and THEN comes the end . That's still a way long way off .

Packer's quote about not worrying about the end of the world is very telling: according to the Jesus-Man hisself: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

He either knows it's all BS, or that he's God....

In 1973, then LDS President and Prophet, Spencer W. Kimball, changed the leadership rolls in M.I.A. (the Mutual Improvement Association, known today as the Young Men's and Young Women's program, "mutual").

The leadership change was to place a male and female youth "in charge" of the program with adult supervision. These youths were chosen from the high school seniors at that time.

I recall exactly who the two individuals were in my ward at that time.

Why the leadership change?

We were told that President Kimball wanted the youth trained early with leadership responsibilities because they need to be prepared early in life as they will be the leaders of the Church when Jesus comes to usher in the millennium.

Today, TSCC has completely backed away from any such past prophetic indoctrination - one that we as youth repeated over and over again in the early 1970's. It was spoken about often in seminary, and all church meetings. There was a huge fear factor to stay worthy or be burnt as stubble!

Duane Crowther in his book "Prophecy, Key to the Future" in 1960 laid the future out like this.

1. Prepatory wars (conflict with communism in Russia and China) check
2. US becomes bankrupt warring in other lands. Check
3. More severe droughts, storms, geologic catastrophies. check, when you take into account global warming and overpopulation.
4. Women will stop wanting children (partial check)
5. Constitution hanging by a thread (the constitution has always been hanging by a thread)
6. Elders save the constitution (they would like to think so)
7. Developement of the Independant party. Check
8. World War III with the US and the UK against communist China and communist Russia. Chinese forces invade the west coast. Mormon elders save the day. No check.
9:a. U.S. economic and government collapse. Saints gather to Utah for protection.
b. Fullfilling of the "Fullness of the Times of the Gentiles" missionaries taken from the gentiles (mainstream christians) and go out to preach to the heathens.
10. World War IV (wars of complete destruction beginning)
11. Apocolyptic natural disasters. New York destroyed by earthquake. Boston and Kansas City destroyed by flood
12. Establishment of the New Jerusalem which will have a piller of smoke by day, and a pillar of fire by night, and the city will glow at night.
13. Establishment of the old Jerusalem after a moses like character leads the lost twelve tribes from the north polar icecap, splitting the ice which entrapped them like Moses split the Red Sea.
14. Each of the 10 tribes will be segregated in the old Jerusalem.
15. Christ will appear in a secret meeting to 144,000 priesthood leaders in the valley of Adam ondi Ahman.
16. Rise of David the Prince (possibly the reincarnation of Joseph Smith, according to Crowther)
17. Armaggedon in Isreal where two mormon prophets are killed in the streets. And angels bring down fire and brimstone to destroy over a billion soldiers, 1/3 of the earths remaining population.
18. God splits the mount of Olives causing a river to rush into the Dead Sea, and another river to fliw into the Mediterrainian Sea. Then Jesus appears to prove himself to the Jews.
19. Millenium where we are ruled by a theocracy. Jesus only randomly visits. All the continents are united into one landmass and the mountains are leveled.
20. We die without disease at old age, yet are trinkled into a transfigured state like Alma, John, and the three Nephites for the less valiant. The most valiant are resurrected after death ever since the resurrection of Jesus.
21. Sin reintroduced by the temporarilly freed Lucifer so that babies born during the mellinium can be tested.
22. This results in the final non violent war called the Battle of Gog and Magog.
23. Final Judgement and Resurrection.
24. The earth recieves its celestial state after being burned. It becomes like a sea of glass and a giant urim and Thummin in which we can view things of lower order. Those celestialized with the earth get a stone urim and thummin which they can view stuff of higher order to help in their eternal progression to godhood.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2013 04:19PM by homoerectus.

I think this is a testimonial about fear more than anything else. I think your poor dad has been conditioned to be good (pay tithing) for fear the good Lord will return any day. And I think that's what you are hearing.

You should share with him these quotes from Joseph Smith:

1833: "there are those now living upon the earth whose eyes shall not be closed in death until they see all these things, which I have spoken, fulfilled" (History of the Church, v1, p 315)

1835: "the coming of the Lord, which is nigh - even fifty-six years should wind up the scene" (History of Church, v2, p 182)

1843: "I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, .. the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty-five years old" (History of the Church, v5, p 336)

1843: "There are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes." (History of the Church, v5, p 336)

Wait, Kansas City is landlocked. How the hell is it supposed to flood?

Missouri river is supposed to wipe it away so that there isnt so much as a dog to wag his tail. -according to Brigham Young.

We didn't discuss the "second coming" - but it was alluded to occasionally, especially by my husband as something that was sure to happen. I'm sure he believed it would happen, right up until his death as I knew his beliefs, but we didn't get into any discussion about it.

If the subject comes up with Mormons that are aware of the prophecies, it's accepted.No question, just when.

Christians also are sure it is going to happen.
I heard about it as a child long before I converted.

I accepted it as absolute for many years.

I don't think there is any such thing anymore. It's just party of the religious mythology.

They continue to invest in this probationary world as if it's not going away anytime soon.

Even when I was a blind TBM, I never bought their "building up the kingdom of god here on earth" BS. I always thought, "This is already god's kingdom....he created it!"

How they kept the gaff in me for so long is beyond my comprehension. Even today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2013 04:26PM by iflewover.

My age is double nickels, and the "second coming" has been nigh for all my life. Is fifty-five years enough to expose a hoax? If not, why not?

In the late 80's/early 90's, I was in the 12-18 year YW range and I remember my parents telling me they were certain the second coming would happen around 2010 or 2015. I have no idea why they were certain of this date range, but now that it is 2013, I'm waiting anxiously for 2015 to pass so I can call them out on this. My guess- they will claim they never gave a date- it was just a guess, but it will be coming. Definitely. Yep, definitely.

My ultra TBM relatives totally buy into the Skousen predictions and stated that we are in the calm before the storm so to speak and the second coming will happen in seven years. My BIL has a family member that married into the skousen clan so I get it from all sides.

My wife's always too tired after the first.

Yes, I'm sure jesus is at least partially motivated to delay his return so he doesn't have to listen to billions of spouses ask if he's finished coming yet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2013 06:07PM by Albinolamanite.