I haven't seen much written about this. I'd love further info.

A big fear that the Church leaders had when facing the prospect of a U.S. invasion in 1857 was the illegitimacy of their land titles. Brigham Young did not have authority to hand them out but he did anyway. Of course how much and how good of land you had was up to the church.

My brother spent a day at the County recorder's office and found the original land title gifted to our g-g-grandfather when he arrived. He also saw it subsequently broken up (not sold off) while he was on a mission. It was divided up as the church saw fit to accommodate new emigrants. Members were at the mercy of the church in this regard.

In Will Bagley's book "Blood of the Prophets" it was mentioned in passing that members were not allowed to move without the Church's permission. When the Cedar City church leadership went on the lam after federal arrest warrants were issued for the Mountain Meadows Massacre a curious thing happened. Half the families in town "disappeared". They left without permission. It's not clear where they went. And only 20 families were still attending church. (Cedar City had over 600 families but at least 300 families went somewhere, I'll say "escaped".)

It's been mentioned that the Perpetual Emigration Fund was a way to hold new emigrants in debt so they aren't allowed to leave. Were bishop's store houses also a way to keep members from "escaping" Utah?

This fits hand in glove with the JoD sermons that remind everyone that the church is a dictatorship and dictates everything in members' lives.

More info on the mechanisms of control would be greatly appreciated.

Land means everything to a farmer. In those days nearly everyone worked some farm land (regardless of their other profession). Brigham Young could control people by controlling the land that provided their survival.

If the Federal Government came in and told everyone that the land was never Young's, or the church's, to give in the first place, there would have been an extraordinary power shift.

"Blood of the Prophets" seemed to be saying that Young quickly realized that he could not survive a protracted war with America, and that he need to find some bargaining leverage in any peace negotiations.

The one thing America needed from the Mormons was assistance in overland travel to the west coast. Wagon trains needed to be replenished by the Mormons (a lucrative industry back then), and Mormons could control the Indian population to provide safe passage.

Young may have needed to "demonstrate" to America just what would happen when the Mormons were diverted from those two needs.

First, the Mormons stopped resupplying travelers (in natural response to the pending war). Second, Indians (supposedly) massacred an entire wagon train at Mountain Meadows. These two things would demonstrate to America just how much it needed Mormon cooperation for overland travel and provide Young with the bargaining leverage he needed.

If, indeed, that WAS Young's plan -- it backfired big time.

It seems to be a Mormon run "protection racket". Trains hired a Mormon who claimed he could get you through Indian territory safely. But many of the trains that landed in Oregon claimed they still had livestock stolen by "Indians" they thought looked suspiciously white. They thought the guide was really a lookout.

I also wonder if the "guide" was there to stop Mormon "refugees" from joining the wagon train and leaving.

This is the stuff I'd like to know more about.

Crud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If, indeed, that WAS Young's plan -- it backfired
> big time.

That scheme falls perfectly inline with the typical combination of deceit based tactics and strong arm based tactics that the tyrannical Young love to employ for his own benefit.

Before MMM, Young had done a similar thing with the MORmON battalion. Young had solicited US secretary of war James Polk by letter, asking the US to take MORmONS as troops to fight in the US/ Mexican War. Young offered many more LDS "volunteers" than the US wanted. When the US Army showed up to enlist the previously settled upon reduced number of MORmON recruits, Brigham YOung acted surprised and cited the situation as yet another bitter example of the endless persecution that is waged on the latter day saints as the chosen people of God, AND LYING POS drama King Young urged the LDS to join the US Army anyway, so he could take their military paychecks to finance Young's move of his LDS church to Utah. Unfortunately for Brigham
Young and MORmONS, young's correspondence letters with
James Polk are preserved in the national archive. UNLIKE the phantom Gold plates they are readily inspectable evidence.

After MMM, Young tried to play hard ball with the rail road barons as the transcontinental rail road was being constructed.
Young threatened the rail road builders and their project so he could barge in on the construction profits of the rail road through Zion Utah. Young conned his LDS to work on the rail road based on postponed payment of wages. Brigham Young found out the hard way that he had met his match when he squared off against the railroad barons. Young got screwed on this deal, with a much delayed and only partial payment, but he had a lot of other plunder to fall back on. The MORmONS employed in the railroad construction got screwed worse, most of them got very very little or NOTHING for their labor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwkFavjPsdE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7_o_FiFnXw



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2013 11:15PM by lucky.

I've wondered about that too. When some of my ancestors left the United States and settled in what is today Missouri, they got Spanish land grants. Did Brigham Young get anything like that from the government who owned the land? Or were the Mormons just squatters?

the last time to northern Arizona on the Little Colorado (aka "Dirty Devil") river, where he and his family (and neighbors) lived a poverty-stricken and precarious existence.

Sad-sad-sad-ly yrs,

S

Schweizerkind, it sounds like your relatives and mine were neighbors. My ancestors were also told to settle along the Dirty Devil in Utah, they ranched an area that included the Hole-In-The-Wall where Butch and Sundance hid out...

This is interesting. (The defenders of the faith and their easy dismissal of criticism is interesting too.)

http://bycommonconsent.com/2012/08/07/i-am-now-informed-that-over-five-thousand-desire-to-move-from-this-territory/

"I am constantly in receipt of letters from various persons (Mormons in this Territory) saying they are desirous of leaving this country and leaving the Mormon church, also that they have been desirous of so doing for several years past, and have made the attempt, but have always been prevented by reason of the Church claims on them for their emigration expenses out here being unsettled their outfit of wagons, oxen & Provision have been levied on by the Church officers—which, of course so crippled the parties that they could not move. I am now informed that over five thousand desire to move from this Territory . . ."

Today I read Polly Aird's piece in the Journal of Mormon History. Holy Cow! She tells the stories of some reformation era apostates who left. The fear experienced by apostates is palpable.

“‘You Nasty Apostates, Clear Out’: Reasons for Disaffection in the Late 1850s,” Journal of Mormon History 30:2 (Fall 2004), 129-207.

The Parrish murders are covered as well. Who did it is well established, Bishop Aaron Johnson ordered their murder and their neighbors carried it out. What a fine religion! U.S. Judge Cradlebaugh could not get a Mormon jury to indict the killers. What a fine theocracy!

Maybe everyone else knew about it, but these details are news to me. I'm just gobsmacked. The lack of morality is stunning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2013 06:21PM by crom.

In my family the story is told that ancestors discovered the copper in what is now the copper mines (Kennecott) on the west side of the SL valley. Brother Brigham told them not to mine because the laird didn't want it to happen at that time, so they didn't. Later some very rich people started the mine and it's been going strong ever since.

Nice, huh?

That's just the tip of the iceberg on that deal.

Yah, the MORmON *prophet*/ PROFIT Brigham Young did not think there was anything to the Bigham canyon ore strike. MUCH to Brigham's chagrin, it turned out to be one of the richest known metal deposits in the world, still massively producing even today. Brigham had his profit mongering fat ass burned by himself on the deal. In bitterness, Brigham went on to stir up endless contention between his latter day saint flock and the people who worked the literal gold mine that was essentially in his own back yard that he had turned his pompous nose up at in the sublime IGNORANCE of his personal MORmON religious rapture.
The backlash of this brutal lesson for Brigham, is that when it was rumored that eastern Utah had vast coal deposits, Young sent a surge of additional MORmONS into those areas to settle there, in the hopes of tying up the mineral rights in those areas.

Did BY get guggenheimed?

I reckon I might have shot the rotten pervert bastard if he'd tried to control me like that...and I'm a farmer BTW.

Ron Burr

you were not the only one ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FONmqt385U

crom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I haven't seen much written about this. I'd love
> further info.
>
> More info on the mechanisms of control would be
> greatly appreciated.

ask and ye shall receive

what a person owned ? wives are just property in the world of MORmONISM!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmlQLz4KBy0

From the apostate stories (Polly Aird article in Journal of Mormon History 2004 http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/mormonhistory/vol30/iss2/1/)

Reasons for disaffection:

Polygamy
Blood Atonement
Corruption
Demand for absolute Obedience

Obedience - Church told you where to live and often what work you would perform. If you didn't comply there were consequences.

Impediments to Leaving:

Grinding poverty - some thought the poverty was by design to keep members in line. The leaders at the top seemed to have a lavish abundance.

"Debt" - Most members were in debt to the church. I put ironic quotes on the word because debts could be created. People claimed the Bishop's storehouse records were fixed, or the Bishop was pilfering and putting it on members accounts. You owed tithing. And you were told how much you owed. You couldn't get ahead. Plus there was the perpetual emigration fund which no one seemed to pay off.

Bishop's Storehouses - It was a 2 month trip out. Supplies were locked up, so members had a hard time getting a 2 month supply together, especially in secret.

Vigilantism/Blood Atonement - While murder was more rare, beatings happened. Wards were on the look out for anyone who might apostatize. If you expressed a criticism of a leader or didn't like a doctrine there were consequences. Loyalty above all else was demanded.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2013 02:13PM by crom.