Public excommunications have usually backfired on the church and cast more light on what the church wants to hide.
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Mormons' regard for defected Mormons is a bald-faced prejudice. We are mythically evil to them for having "rejected the truth" (we did no such thing, we left when we found out it wasn't true). They feel justified in pitying us, filled with a delusional sense of knowing the truth.
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...the irony that their founding prophets were, in fact, murderers in the way Mormons believe the anti-Mormon mob was. Mormonism is such a sorry case of the some of the people being fooled all of the time...a phenomenon it can count on for adherents despite some people knowing the truth.
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He was proud of what is plainly revealed in scripture. He was alot more honest than the corporate backpeddlers and sidesteppers today. He lauded what past prophets spoke. He championed classical post-manifesto authoritarian Mormonism...in all its racist fascist misogynistic nakedness. And was narcissistically insane.
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When I was EQP there was much pressure from the stake to get more home teaching done. They let on, probably unintentionally, that it was a budget issue. It's probably a prestige issue too. We were given a few formulas to apply to count people who weren't contacted or who were under-contacted. This reminds me of that. You're getting counted as home-taught to church HQ.
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The families of apostles are treated like royalty, not just the apostles themselves. Mormons are bedazzled with spiritual celebrity. They believe in "noble and great ones", who come to earth in the form of church leaders. Mormons are very sensitive to pedigree and bloodline, believing on some level it represents pre-destiny as a reward for pre-mortal valiance. Once a Mormon ascends to c
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...I was giving in to fear. I was honestly puzzled by that. I knew that my belief in the church was partly out of fear. In the church, the only things I was afraid of were things about the church...it's "authority", god, and satan. Everything bad and scary in the world was because of satan. Leaving the church, I had to admit that bad and scary things were no longer neatly explained.
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The church and its puppet Utah state government are only making the fight for equality more painful. Gay marriage is inevitable. The federal government has already begun to institute it. Anti-gay "laws" in the reluctant states are being ruled unconstitutional one by one regularly. These stays are only stalls. When equality (ie fairness, justice, civility, etc.) Finally wins, against th
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It's hard because we critics have to refute their "evidence" one piece at a time. They think they have so much, but when you look at each one specifically, there are always leaps made. My personal favorite "evidence" is the legend of Qetzelcoatl. I used that one as a missionary. It's bull sh*t. The legend of the white-bearded god was Spanish. The real Q was a bird. Mormons st
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It wasn't the SAME one the entire two years. Missionaries are frequently transferred between different parts of a mission area, so companionships are frequently changed out. I had about 10 companions in two years. Yes, I had quarrels with almost all of them.
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I went to sacrament today. It's an olive branch to my TBM wife who doesn't understand my apostasy (or rather, she thinks she understands, but she has it wrong). Usually, in the past, Mothers' Day has been somewhat of a break from the usual dogma, and just a mothers' appreciation day at church. I expected unobjectionable talks about how mothers deserve so much thanks. Hardly anyone disagrees. The
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n/t
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The rule in Mormonism is obey. It's a self-justifying system of morality, basically saying that what's right is what the church says. That would work if there really was a "perfect" god running it...but there isn't. Time and time again the church demonstrates it runs on the same human limitations as we all do, but it's worse because it passes off these morals as above human limitation
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Therein lies the essence of the fallacy, in my opinion. Mormons take it for granted that their god tells the world how to live. In their minds, we gentiles, heathens, and apostates actually do believe what god says, we just rationalize our disobedience to indulge in worldliness. It's doubly insulting because 1) they discount our perspective, and 2) they promote their subjective perspective to t
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It's doubly hard as an exmo because Mormonism is still a huge part of our formative experience. We have years, often a lifetime, of insight about it. It shaped us (possibly deformed us). We have every right to own that personal experience... ...Yet Mormons discount our very right to talk about it. If we disagree with them we are "anti-Mormon" (even though I think that term should onl
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This line of reasoning kills me. Someone copies parts of the bible verbatim. They fill-in the story with bible-speak. Then they claim it's true because it mimics the bible. Even as a TBM I was unaware of any specific rumored hebraism (the popular one at the time was "chiasms"). I figured they were subtle and you had to analyze for it using sophisticated academic methods not known
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This statement only makes sense in the context of something that isn't transparent/apparent. A regular church or social organization would have NO IMPETUS to even say this about disbelief. If their creed and operations were transparent, a matter of "disbelief" would simply be a subjective statement in regard to what is visible. All observers see the same object, and some believe and
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When I was a missionary I was aware I was weak and simple. I was a high school dropout and a repentant drunk and fornicator. I grovelled to the church and felt like it was doing me a big favor by even letting go on a mission. I envied missionaries who felt worthy to go. I was somber and sulked throughout my mission and worked feverishly thinking I had to make up for being bastardized. When they r
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I'm a fan of Daniel C. Dennett who argues there's an evolutionary rationale for religion. Religion in general, and Mormonism in particular, is not just a set of bald-faced falsehoods (it is that, but more). I love Dawkins and Harris, but neither of them were ever under "the spell". They sometimes talk as if all you need to do to get believers to snap out of it is to just tell them cor
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My own experience was that apologetic "inoculation" backfired. A year before I suddenly consciously disbelieved in the church, I read a pro-LDS article on the example of faith Heber C. Kimball was. The article was the first I ever knew about anything like it, Joseph Smith's proposal on his wife, which was just a test, then the follow up proposal on his teenage daughter. This informati
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Suburbs attract young Mormon families. Big cities with major economies attract Mormon families too. There's localized growth, but attrition occurs in other places. I moved from a stake that merged with a suburban stake to a stake that split-off from a suburban stake. Net zero.
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But they're disingenuous about it. Some things, in particular, they still believe in but pretend otherwise publically. And, they dodge the near total pervasiveness of some of these beliefs. They're only fooling the casual observer. Die-hard Mormons are OK with this discretionary downplaying of things the world objects to (the world not understanding or living the higher law necessary to appreciat
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I think stake presidents are wary of "falling into the tolerance trap" that some apostle complained about. Church HQ is still actively pushing an anti-gay agenda. Even though the church feigns tolerance of gays on the street, at corporate levels it's seen as a litmus test of loyalty to counter gay rights. Most of the time, stake presidents outdo bishops' austerity. I think there's a goo
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For a while I was ward mission leader, then a counselor in the stake mission presidency (back when they had that, mid-90's). I felt converted to the work, but every attempt was a dud. Set-a-date program...nothing. Bring one person into the church this year...nothing. Reactivation work...nothing. Give a Book of Mormon away with personal testimony pasted inside...nothing. I made weekly attempts to
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I posted a defensive blurt on the "medium" thread a few days ago. I haven't changed my opinion at all, but I am wondering why it's such a hot button to me. Usually I try to be a fence-sitter and walk both rails, see both sides. But when it comes to psychics and supernatural and paranormal claims, I suffer from the same sense of that's-heresy I did as a Mormon. I feel indignant, defensiv
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You're a victim of affinity fraud. ALL, 100%, of "psychics" are false. Maybe some think they're real, but ALL OF THEM can and many are proven false by objective means. "I have met her and have found her to be a very genuine person" is the WORST way to test a con artist or any kind of liar or charlatan. If we could reliably tell who's lying based our your own subjective 6th s
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If you're only there 3 days Moab would be a stretch...it's more like a 6 hour drive, not 4. It'd take up your whole 3 days getting there, doing something, and getting back. Southern Utah is a destination in itself apart from Salt Lake, and vice versa, and I personally don't think you can do both in only 3 days. Hiking...easy access would be City Creek Canyon, Ensign Peak, and Bonneville lakesh
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I know a Mormon might say I'm a hypocrite because I "repress" Mormonism. But I don't repress it because it's a religion, or as a whole. I protest it's abuses, when it crosses the line between its own civil liberties and human rights and infringes on those of others. I think China's repression of religion will backfire because it only makes people bottle it up. Religion is so much easie
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All you get from believers for not believing is derision. They're hypocrites. If you said the same things to them as they say to us or about us, they'd be appalled and woefully offended, and say we were "persecuting" them. Yet they do it to us on a whim. It's hard when you're younger because the adults in the church don't respect you. I'm older, over 40, and they don't talk to me much
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This is mild indoctrination The lyrics of primary hymns are replete with propaganda-style hype. I attended primary, and regrettably it was enough indoctrination to lure me back to the church after our family became inactive my teenage years.
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