|Subject:||What Was It Like to Have Bruce R. McConkie as Your Father?/ A must read book from his own!!!!|
|Date:||Dec 17 19:12 2003|
|Subject:||Check out this SAD, sad quote from the book, LDS men are forced to choose church over family. PATHETIC and WRONG!|
|Date:||Dec 18 13:07|
|Author:||Greg in LA|
|"A few years ago, I was invited to speak in a
sacrament meeting devoted to paying tribute to fathers. Each speaker who
preceded me described how his father had taught him to catch a baseball,
ride a horse, hunt deer, or change the oil in a car.
As I listened to them, I realized that I had no such stories to tell. My father never threw a ball to me, never took me hunting or camping, nor did he have any idea how to change the oil in a car.
We didn't even go to church together because he was gone virtually every Sunday on conference assignments. He was not present when I received any of the offices in the Aaronic Priesthood nor any award in Scouting.
He did not teach me how to drive nor how to tie a tie, nor was he around when I learned, by rather painful experience, how to shave. He never took me to a baseball or basketball game, nor did we ever go to a movie together." from: http://deseretbook.com/mormon-life/
|Subject:||Greg, that can't be a real quote. You're kidding, right? I'll buy the book if it really says that!|
|Subject:||seriously! That was a REAL, actual quote!|
|Subject:||You were middle of the road|
|Date:||Dec 18 14:29|
|My father used to FORCE us to go with him camping
and picnicing and on various family outings including father and son
outings. His philosophy seemed to be, "You're going to have fun
whether you want to or not." So if we expressed a desire to just
stay home and read or something like that, we were saddled with fifty
plus chores to do while he was gone.
It's more than just having time with your parents. Your parents really need to be sensitive to what kind of time will be viewed as valuable to you. If you force "recreation" down the throats of your children, you create resentment in them.
|Subject:||How about this quote|
|Date:||Dec 18 13:19|
|"We err when we seek confirmation for our doctrines
from the world."
My family's thinking exactly. Keep it insular....they won't listen to a thing I have to say. Soooo frustrating.
|Subject:||what is sad is he never learned anything from how his father treated his kids, but to remain faithful|
|Date:||Dec 18 13:44|
|to the end and continue to live in the Mormon haze,
that good old Dad was OK, even when he was a lousy father who put the
Church ahead of his family. Very Sad !
|Subject:||Primrose: Mormons take denial to an art form!/nt|
|Subject:||My mission president was Bruce R. McConkie's son...|
|Date:||Dec 18 14:48|
|Joseph Fielding McKonkie. I had the opportunity to
talk to him on a personal level a couple of times and I was so saddened
by how he described living with his father. He told me stories about how
no matter what he did, it was never good enough for his father. It was
all emotionally abusive.
I have seen Joseph since the mission and what I see is a grown child still seeking the approval from a father that will never come and looking completely lost. I asked him why he didn't stand up for his former missionaries and the issues that have come since the mission and the difficulties that have arisen from the mission experience and his comment to me was "If I speak out and rock the boat I won't get called to the higher esilons (sp) of the church later". He seemed to think that the only way he had worth was to follow in is fathers footsteps. I will tell you also that his wife suffers from depression and a complete lack of self and his kids are a mess full of anger.
I tried to write him once about what I had found out about the church and he was spiteful and cruel back to me and blamed the whole thing on me. Although we had our moments in the field, I have no desire to contact him again as he is so condescending and has no idea how to deal with real issues of the heart.
|Subject:||Emotions I have not experienced....|
|Date:||Dec 18 17:02|
|I read the whole article on Deseret Book on-line.
After reading the article, I felt sad and depressed but in a different
way. I felt sad yet angry. Angry at how someone could be foolish. I felt
this way because I used to be the same.
When I was a Bishop, I could do nothing but think of the church. My dear wife and children took second place to the church. I seriously neglected them. Fortunately, I was still relatively young (was 33 when called as a Bishop) and so were my children. I realized that if a church pressured people to place complete faith and trust in its organization, something deeply is wrong with such a religion. Sure enough, the problems began mounting when issues were examined regarding Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.
Thank god I am out. I cannot imagine passing such traits to my kids as McConkie did to his children. I am glad to take my children fishing, teach them how to change the oil in a car, help them with their homework and be their friends.
What is wrong with the LDS church? Everything. No matter what morals or ethics the Mormon faith teaches, it will never break out of it's cult like appearance until it allows people to be themselves.
What a sorry religion and I truly feel sorry for the members who believe in the religion.
|Subject:||Hey, you are talking about my cousins here!|
|Date:||Dec 18 17:19|
|You know, they are human beings. But I will tell you
that my dad's side of the family (Joseph Fielding Smith side) is
soooooo-oooooo boring!!! I do have two cousins on this side that are
knock-outs and don't seem as boring. One was even a Miss Utah in the
1970's. But stilll they live the typical Mormon life. I am glad it works
for them really.
But most of my cousins are boring, boring, boring!! This is what is so pathetic. Am I judgmental? Yes.
As for some of the descriptions you give about fathers not being there . . . well that brought back a terrible memory for me. (I hate to be so egocentric, but I guess this is part of the healing). I remember when my father could not take me to the "Daddy-Daughter" date for Primary because he had to be in some dumb church meeting. My gorgeous big brother took me instead. But it still crushed me not to have my father there.
On the other hand, my father took me running a mile every night when he came home. He was so proud of me and my athletic ability. My father would even go out and buy me running shoes so that I could excel at running. Because of this, I think it helped to shape me into being physically fit for a military career and I will ever be grateful to my dad's support! Fathers are so important.
|Subject:||Bruce R. McConkie's concept of free agency|
|Date:||Dec 18 18:01|
|is a little off the wall as well.
"It was an unusual Sunday that found Dad without a conference assignment and hence at home. It was on one of those Sundays when I was in my early teens that I took occasion to see how the doctrine of agency worked. When it came time to leave for church, I announced that I had decided to exercise my agency and not attend church that day. Dad assured me that I had agency, which in our family meant that I could go to church willingly or I could go unwillingly. The choice, he said, was mine. Then he added, "Now get your coat on. You don't want to be late."
Some years passed before I understood the principle involved. When I was baptized, I chose to be an agent for Christ. As His agent, that is, as one committed to represent Him, I had already made the decision of whether I would attend my meetings or not. The covenant I had made assumed the responsibility to attend meetings and fill assignments. Properly understood, agency is the right to act, the right to do our duty. It is not and cannot be the source of excuse for refusing to do the same."
So he learned from his father that a covenant of obedience made when he was baptized was binding for the rest of his life. Once he made that decision (at the ripe old mature age of 8), all other ones were made by default.
I am soooooo glad I didn't have a father like that!
|Subject:||I got an answer to the problem|
|Date:||Dec 18 19:16|
|Just reverse the polygamy situation--let every woman
have two husbands--one to do all the Dad things, and one to go out
preachin and stuff. Then no kids get neglected. Wasn't that where JS was
going back in the day with all his funky polyandry thing and multiple
|Subject:||I didn't like Bruce R. McConkie when I heard him speak at BYU....|
|Date:||Dec 18 20:53|
|...and I didn't like his style, voice, philosophy,
or manner when I heard him speak to us departing missionaries at the MTC.
And after reading excerpts of his son's memoirs, I find Apostle McConkie
even less likable. One of the son's quotes I found quite striking:
"Dad was very much of the opinion that the measure of a person's
spiritual maturity is found in his or her loyalty to the Prophet Joseph
Smith." For Thomas a Kempis, the measure of "spiritual
maturity" was "the imitation of Christ". And then Mormons
wonder why their "Christ-centeredness" is questioned.
|Subject:||If you didn't know the McConkie kids, you'd think this was a parody...|
|Date:||Dec 19 14:55|
|Nearly every sentence is absurd.
Much has already been said about the lack of family values.
But then there's the idea that in order to do research, you don't quote anyone. This got BRM in trouble all the time, as his only sourses were himself. Look at his footnotes. They are mostly quoting his other books. I used to twist my mind in knots trying to come up with the same conclusions he did when he'd read the same scriptures I had and come up with some wholy personal interpretation. Of course, he had to be right. Even though NOTHING IN THE SCRIPTURES indicated that his conclusions had any validity at all.
I can truly imagine that BRM didn't teach his children patience.
And free agency---"You can come willingly, or unwillingly!" What kind of lesson is that. And Joseph doesn't even have enough sense to realize how outlandish and unacceptable that statement is!~
Too bad J. McConkie didn't have enough courage or sense to write about some of the evils of the Viet Nam War. Maybe he could have become an author sooner. And WHY is he so determined to become a writer in the first place if he never got more than a C+ in his English classes? Was it because that's all his father could ever do? (Besides speaking in church meetings)
And he had to please his never-pleasable father.
I've seen the McConkie kids answer sincere questions with a sharp comment---"What do the Scriptures say?" A damning, snide discussion stopper. Now I know where they got that nasty habit.
And to marry someone after knowing them one week, just so you can get a commission in the armed services!!! Well, I guess that was common enough, but I didn't think a man of God would suggest it. Shame!
And to speak about what "they should have asked you to speak about"----What a pompous fool. Just unbelievable!
And even when he isn't sure of something, and nobody around him is sure of it either (the story his Aunt told), he wants to tell the story so badly that he'll get a revelation on the spur of the moment. And his kids believe all this. That's what the saddest thing is. It makes me REALLY SEE how people could follow the likes of Joseph Smith.
If you've ever been around Bruce R. Mcconkie or his children, you know that just their height, their deep voices, their presence will terrorize or awe normal folk. Combine that with a fierce belief in their own "supernatural" abilities, and you have people who are really dangerous.
|Subject:||Bruce's sister taught a gospel class at BYU and taught some outlandish things--|
|Date:||Dec 19 15:07|
|Author:||Greg in LA|
|Two that I remember the most--
1. God's love for us is conditional. (Contrary to anything I'd ever read or heard from LDS sources.)
2. She talked to us about a stake president in/near BYU who got excommunicated with his wife for masturbating each other.
Even as a TBM at the time, I couldn't believe it. It's bad enough you can't jerk yourself off, but you couldn't even let your wife do it with/for you?
|Subject:||Re: Bruce's sister taught a gospel class at BYU and taught some outlandish things--|
|Date:||Dec 19 21:17|
|WTF?? Husband and wife masturbate each other and get
exd?? Could you elaborate on this? What was the rationale? They'd have
to ex half the church for that.
|Subject:||Re: Bruce's sister taught a gospel class at BYU and taught some outlandish things--|
|Date:||Dec 20 09:46|
|>She talked to us about a stake president
in/near BYU who got excommunicated with his wife for masturbating each
I don't know which is more pathetic---that they got excommunicated for doing that, or that they told someone else about it.
What's even more silly is that if church leaders employed a single standard for such behavior throughout the church, and members were honest in their 'confessions,' then there wouldn't be enough 'worthy' men eligible to serve as stake presidents or bishops, nor wives to support them.
|Subject:||Oh hey! I saw my relatives as basically human.|
|Date:||Dec 19 15:09|
|My grandpa was a human being and quite grumpy too.
He was in his own world in his old age and I felt a bit sorry for him
sometimes since he was pressured to go out and met the crowds. He
really, in his old age, did not care much for being the
"prophet." He was a very sad man since the death of Jessie
As for the McConkie family and my family (we are inter-related since my aunt is a Smith), you are absolutely right! It is all about playing the game and pleasing the patriarch. It is not about being Christ-centered (whether Christ is a myth or not -- I believe in Christian principals).
Now am I rambling? I just think the comments are so eloquent on this post.
And may I add to the post by HighOctane, you are right on!! The church follows Satan's plan when you stop to think about it. There really is no free agency. This is the biggest lie the church perpetrates -- that it believes in free agency. Just go out on your own and see what happens to you. You will be punished, ostracized and talked about like you are "bad."
|Date:||Dec 19 20:04|
|The article showed the mind control that being in
the church fosters. He complained about his father, etc., and then goes
onto extol the church and gets all preachy, etc. Can't he see the
linkage? No, because he's been blinded by all the hype. Plus I'm betting
the egotism that comes from being a son of an apostle--all the special
attention he gets.
|Subject:||Re: What Was It Like to Have Bruce R. McConkie as Your Father?/ A must read book from his own!!!!|
|Date:||Dec 20 08:28|
|This entire excerpt from his book is sickening.
Literally god damned sickening. It sounds so much like my life, except
that my father was not a GA, it makes me ill. My father wanted to be a
GA so bad he could taste it. He lived his pitiful tbm life as if they
were going to call him to lead the church at any minute!
Reading this just convinces me even more that the church's so called family doctrine is without a doubt the biggest bunch of bullshit anyone ever attempted to pass off as gospel.
Free agency??? HAHAHA!
Families are forever? I hope not! I already suffered enough trauma escaping once. Why the hell would I want to possibly go through that again?
I truly feel for little Joe M. and so many like him. To live and think like this, to say nothing of thinking you are happy, is damned sad.
|Subject:||Bruce R. McConkie the most arrogant GA ever|
|Date:||Dec 20 09:31|
|I always used to cringe whenever I even heard this
guy's voice. He seemed to me to be the most arrogant and fanatical man
who just radiated such a pompous know-it-all weirdo air every time he
spoke that I wondered how every body didn't comment on how strange he
was. One more story about his sister who taught at BYU. I went to one of
her Sunday School lessons and she told us that her dead brother was in
"charge of writing all the music that the angels will sing when the
Savior comes again in clouds of glory". Talking about your
delusions of grandeur! Wonder how they feel now that more and more the
church is imploding and all these prophecies of massive world wide
growth and dominance (including some by BRM) is becoming a joke?
Probably still live in their little narrow petty arrogant twisted dream
world. Poor children to have been born into such a sick family culture.
Glad I am out of the MORG as of a few months ago. This board is great!
Thanks for everyone's help. Bruce R. McConkie still gets my vote as the
most arrogant GA in modern history.
|Subject:||What it was like to have my dad as my father.|
|Date:||Dec 20 11:07|
|Well, he was not exactly a BRM. He smoked, drank an
occasional beer, worked two jobs to pay off the debts he incurred when
my mom died from a long and expensive bout with cancer. He did not go to
church and was looked down on by the adult, male "priesthood"
holders in my small home town.
...he taught me how to throw and catch a baseball. He went hiking with me in the beautiful mountains above my home town. He read to me constantly, which gave me an unquenchable thirst for reading. After my mom died, when my dad came home from working long hours, we would lay on his bed, my head on his arm, and talk about things. Whenever I would ask him if we could get something I wanted (which was way beyond his ability to purchase) he would just say, "I don't see why not." After my mother died, he washed, cooked and helped us clean our small house. He attended my games and, on one cold Fall day, came to watch me play in a sophomore football away game and was the only person in the stands on our side of the field. I could go on and on about the great sacrifices my father made in behalf of his three kids.
Once, when we sought church assistance, my dad was told by the bishop that we couldn't get it because my dad did not attend church and my mom drank coffee.
Well, my dad may not make it into the CK according to Mormon church guidelines, but, if families are, indeed, forever, I would rather be with him where ever he ends up than with a jerk like BRM if that's the kind of folks who make it into the Lord's highest kingdom.
|Date:||Dec 20 11:22|
|Most kids of TBM parents are only allotted, by the
'church' one hour on a Monday night to be together. The rest of the time
the parents are running hither and yon to various meetings. The Morg is
one of the most anti-family organizations on the planet.
|5. Boyd K. Packer||22. Hyrum Smith's Blessings|
|100 Ballard, Dyer and Missionaries||115 Oaks/Maxwell/Benson|
|139 Inside the Mind of Ezra Taft Benson||153 Ballard, "I Am an Expert on Women"|
|159 Gnawing Doubts & GAs||164 Have the Apostles Seen Christ?|
|183 Paul H. Dunn and Orrin Hatch||185 Benson Family Legacy|
|189 Ezra Taft Benson - Racist Prophet||242 Benson Family Damage Control|
|248 Alvin & Samuel Smiths' Deaths||259 Why Were GAs Duped?|
|268 Bruce R. McConkie: E. England||275 Do Mormon Prophets Really Know?|
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church - www.exmormon.org