|Subject:||--Most Recent LDS Welfare Stats--|
|Date:||Apr 28, 2010|
|Author:||The Truth Hurts|
|I am not sure if anyone has made a thread about this
yet, but in case they haven't, I figured I would post this information on
here for you all to see (and get to laugh at). TSCC [this so called church] has released the Welfare
Services Fact Sheet for 2009, which can be used to calculate the amount of
humanitarian aid they have provided over the past year. Here are the numbers
for 2008 as well as the updated numbers for 2009:
Humanitarian assistance rendered (1985-2008)
-Cash donations: $282.3 million
-Value of material assistance: $833.6 million
-Total: $1.1159 billion
Humanitarian assistance rendered (1985-2009)
-Cash donations: $327.6 million
-Value of material assistance: $884.6 million
-Total: $1.2122 billion
Using the above information, the following can be calculated:
Humanitarian assistance rendered (2008-2009)
-Cash donations: $45.3 million
-Value of material assistance: $51 million
-Total: $96.3 million
According to KSL executive Chris Redgrave in November of last year when the City Creek Center was still scheduled to cost $3 billion (which is now rumored to have jumped to over $4 billion dollars), the church "is spending more than $1 million a day on construction." To be generous in our calculations, let's say that the construction is only carried out on weekdays (5 days a week x 52 weeks in a year for a total of 260 days of work per year), thus meaning that TSCC [This so called church] is spending $260 million per year on the City Creek Center. Even by using such generous calculations TSCC is still spending over twice the amount of money on one mall in Utah than they are on helping people. It is quite easy to see what the Morg really cares about; there is a scripture in the Book of Mormon that describes priorities very accurately:
For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches (and your malls), more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.
The Welfare Services Fact Sheets can be viewed at the following links:
(You will need to be signed in to a google account to view this one.)
|Subject:||Malls help people|
|Date:||Apr 28 18:18|
|They make them feel good about themselves. They also show them how to dress cool and wear their hair in interesting ways.|
|Subject:||Re: Malls help people|
|Date:||Apr 28 18:21|
|But only if those people are really, really good looking.|
|Subject:||Yes, but ...|
|Date:||Apr 28 18:20|
|As far as the Mall is concerned, that's the "for
profit" arm of the church. You know, Deseret Management Corp. Since this
church is patterned exactly like Christ's church, I wonder what He called
His "for profit" arm of His church?
The LDS cult takes in billions of dollars each year. I wonder if they give 10% of their income to charity? Yeah, right. $96.3 million is probably less than 1% of their income. Gee, they're so generous. And the members are so stupid as to not demand an accounting of the church's finances.
|Subject:||And how can we verify the "value of material assistance?"|
|Date:||Apr 28 18:27|
|I mean, what if they acquired it all wholesale, which
is at the very least what they did. Are these values given the wholesale or
the market costs? It would be completely above-board, legally if not
ethically, to state the market value, therefore "enhancing" their actual
value and inflating how it looks to people.
On a more cynical side, the value of material assistance could be just another wild number pulled out of someone's ass, just like membership figures. In short, I call bullsh*t, but that's just me.
|Subject:||Re: And how can we verify the "value of material assistance?"|
|Date:||Apr 28 18:43|
|this material assistance...would that be the hygiene kits and the time that members DONATE to make quilts and such? Let's see, donated time and materials x some random number they assign to it= yep that sounds about right...some big ass number we can publish.|
|Subject:||My thoughts exactly.|
|Date:||Apr 28 20:20|
|I'll bet you anything that at least some of that
"materials" assistance is actually the church taking credit for individual
and ward members' assistance.
I mean think about it. Even if the church buys the cans for canning, the members actually do the work.
If you look at it from that perspective, the tiny amount of CASH contributions is embarrassingly small for LDS, Inc., which is one of the biggest landowners in Florida and owns the largest for-profit tourist attraction in (drumroll) HAWAII no less! And, let's not forget the luxury hotel and all the cattle, insurance company, media-broadcasting company, and on and on.
|Subject:||Something that I often wonder about these numbers...|
|Date:||Apr 28 20:22|
|Author:||The Truth Hurts|
|... is whether they include the amount that the church
uses to help its own members.
For example, when the church assigns members a week during which they are to clean the church (which happens once every few months), the members carry out this function, justifying it to themselves by calling it "service." However, the last time I checked service isn't supposed to be something that benefits oneself or the organization they are a part of. However, as a member I can remember the majority of the "service" projects I participated in strictly serving Mormons. If we helped someone, 9 times out of 10 they were a member; such activities were selfish, introverted, and exclusive to the rest of society.
What I am getting at is the following: If TSCC is including the money or materials from bishop's storehouses that it gave to its own members in its Welfare Services Fact Sheets, then the actual amount of "humanitarian aid" provided to the world will be a lot less than what they purport. Giving wheat to a member who is sacrificing 10% of their income for TSCC's sake can hardly be considered "humanitarian aid." Likewise, giving $200 to a destitute family (who is paying $500 a year in tithing) to help them make it to their next paycheck is not "humanitarian aid" either.
Also, as you all have pointed out, there is no way to know what sort of standards TSCC used to calculate the price of goods donated from places like bishop's Storehouses. What we do know is that their numbers - even when inflated - only come out to be a mere $96.3 million dollars per year, which is not even half of what they are spending on the a secular mall per year.
All hail the "profit"!!
|Subject:||Even if we accept the validity of the numbers|
|Date:||Apr 28 22:06|
|... a doubtful proposition at best, but accepting the
96.3 million in humanitarian aid in one year
13.6 million average membership in that year
96.3/13.6 = $7.08 in humanitarian aid per member.
WOW! The generosity is overwhelming.
|Subject:||Re: Even if we accept the validity of the numbers|
|Date:||Apr 29 04:24|
|Author:||The Truth Hurts|
|rofl, yeah, I probably donate more than $7.08 per year
to humanitarian aid from the money I pay when I go to Taco Bell and am asked
"Would you like to donate a dollar to charity?" I go to Taco Bell at least
once a month, which means $12 a year - almost twice as much!!
On the other hand, members are donating AT LEAST $19.11 per year on average ($260/13.6) to help build the City Creek Center. That beats my annual Taco Bell charity donations (ToT)...
|Subject:||Recently my Bishop said this--|
|Date:||Apr 28 22:29|
|We were talking about how to know that a charity is
worth donating to, cuz some have been recently scrutinized.
Well, I just give my tithes and offerings to the church and, and, trust that it is going to the right uses.
Yep, he actually stammered--
I think he is well aware of the monetary significance of the Mall area, especially since he had just got back from spending a week in SLC.
|Subject:||I read a book about the catholic ownership of just about everything|
|Date:||Apr 29 02:54|
|in Italy. It told horror stories of evictions from catholic owned apartment complexes and such. I wonder how the Morg does it's collections when impoverished business clients cannot pay up. I'll bet they just turn it over to a collection agency. Not must Christian charity in those two corporations.|
|Subject:||"Value" means anything the suits come up with. nt|
|Subject:||The cash donations are not from the Church itself.|
|Date:||Apr 29 07:45|
|The humanitarian cash donations claimed as rendered by the Church were, in my days until 2002, from specific donations by members. They did not come from the tithing income or 'for profit' corporations. They were from members' donations specifically for 'humanitarian aid'. Also from special fast days and offerings.|
|Subject:||And don't forget where the assistance cash comes from|
|Date:||Apr 29 08:50|
|I would assume that those "cash" donations are
actually fast offerings that members gave for the cult to pass along to
other needy members. So not tithing.
And the "material" assistance is probably the welfare farm food that member worked and sweated to grow that the cult then give back to the members. Or DI leftovers shipped to Haiti and dropped from 30,000 ft into a field of starving children. So again, not tithing.
I would be that Hinkley's statement that no tithing would be used to build gawd's mall would actually be true when applied to the needy.
"No tithing will be given to the needy". Now that I WOULD believe.
|Subject:||But what really skews the number is...|
|Date:||Apr 29 09:33|
|the fact that the greater amount of the 51 million in
material given is really the "junk" that is given to the D.I. and then
redirected via Bishops...the value being not the "junk" value, but the
Also, the 45 million in cash is most likely simply the "fast offering" amount...
Just a thought, but does someone else have more concrete amounts on how much is given weekly in the form of "fast offering?"
The original article: Mormon403. The Mormon Mall - City Creek to cost over $4 Billion dollars.
The following sections are updates as of August 2010.
A.) Expensive Feature: The name sake of the project is the City Creek that runs down City Creek Canyon to the Jordan River. In 1909 the creek was placed in an underground conduit down North Temple Street from outside of Memory Grove to west of the State Fairpark where the water exits into the Jordan River. The Mormon church decided that a water feature was necessary for the City Creek Project. And only “true” City Creek Water will fit the bill. So the water features in the project will have water pumped up to the feature, run along an artificial “creek” and into a water pond where fish and other aquatic creatures and plants will be on display. Mormon403a
B.) The cost of the project is now estimated to approach $4 Billion Dollars. This is the most expensive mall in the US. Mormon403b [This data of $4 billion is unconfirmed, but believed to be reliable based on past experience from trusted Mormon insiders. The Mormon Church does not open its books for public scrutiny - not even to its members.]
C.) The world's tallest building, Burj Khalifa, completed in 2009 in Dubai cost only $1.5 billion. Mormon403c
D.) LDS welfare stats for 2009 are now available and demonstrate that the mall is far more important than helping those in need. Mormon403d
E.) Condo prices at City Creek slashed 50% due to the economy. Mormon403e
Return to main article on City Creek Mall Mormon403
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church www.exmormon.org