This spring I figured it out and left. Mission, temple marriage, kids, etc. I was a true believer, now Im a true non believer. This is so much harder then I thought it would be. My wife has trippled her activity and when she is really upset at me she cries at night. I can hardly take being the cause of this. I dont ever want to go back. I am angry, sad, frustrated, and lost. Yes I feel pathetic and like so much of my life has been for other people. I really dont know how to get through this, but I cannot go back.

You will get through it....... be good to yourself while you do it, be patient with yourself. This is the hard part but there is an end. Most of all be glad that you found your way out.... as time goes by you will be happier and happier and it will be easier to cope with leaving and all the attending feelings you will experience.

Sounds like you and I should get together and have a vent session....Mom and her friends cannot get me to go to Mass.

Sorry man. We've all been there. This board is a great resource. Hang in there. It will get better.

I am the chaff Wrote:
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> I can hardly take
> being the cause of this.


You have done nothing wrong. It's not your fault that Mormonism is a fraud.

Exactly right!

Hang tough. Be the strong quiet leader. It takes time and patients to lead your loved ones out of this cult.

The first year after learning the truth usually seems to be the toughest. I learned a lot of lessons the hard way in that time.

One thing that is helping me to sort out my relationships with Mormon family right now is to completely drop any attempt to directly encourage them to hear or understand my point of view. I might calmly ask them if they would like to hear my point of view on a Mormon subject every once in awhile, but if they decline then I leave it at that.

Instead I'm finding it is much more productive to make every interaction about benefiting or delighting them in some way that is mutually beneficial from the perspective of both of you. The goal here is to make them have no doubt that you are an asset to their life even though you have your differences when it comes to beliefs. Then they are much more likely to reciprocate empathy, helpfulness, acceptance and even curiosity about your point of view.

It seems the direct route simply does not work and back fires well over the majority of the time.

Vent and rant with fellow ex-mormons, but make your interactions with your family about making their day while pursuing new social groups in replacement of church. In time they will accept and respect you for your position and may someday be curious to know how you can be happy and thriving without belief in Mormonism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2013 12:39AM by Brian M.

How can you get through this? A simple answer is "one day at a time."

We're here for you to talk, or write to. It's a tough road at first, but it leads to a greater peace.

One of the "4 C's of a good relationship" is Compromise. Maybe you can compromise with your wife, and agree that you'll do something "churchy" if she'll do something that supports where you are.

(BTW, the other 3 C's are: Chemistry, Communication & Commitment.)

I agree that some compromises are vital. I also think that compromises HAVE to come from both sides. If just one is compromising, that one will eventually become very tired of always bending over.

For example, if the non-believer still goes to Church every Sunday, maybe he/she can keep on going three times a month and then ask for a compromise on the fourth, allowing the kids to stay home and learn from the non-believers point of view, or whatever. Or maybe just go every other week, or once a month, or whatever can be negotiated. I know it sounds pretty impossible for a TBM to agree to something like that (especially concerning the kids), but I believe that if the non-believer is the only one to compromise, he/she will, over time, become more and more eaten up by the negative emotions that come from not getting your way. Either that person becomes a ghost of his/her former self, or the anger/frustration/negativity will burst out uncontrolled.

So I agree with what you said.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2013 04:18AM by paskiainen.

Posts like this make my heart ache. Integrity takes on a whole new meaning when you figure out that JS was a liar, that it is all a lie, and that you've spent your life living lies. Take comfort in knowing you are not alone. It's not your fault Mormonism is nefarious and false. Many posters here are in similar situations. Keep reaching out. Hug.

I'm sorry - it can be very difficult for a while.

Remember you are NOT the cause. You are a victim of a scam and a fraud. You are not the one who caused Joseph Smith to be a con artist who amazingly has sucked millions of people in. This is not. your. fault. You can't pretend to believe a lie that you have discovered is a lie. I promise you at the other end of the dark tunnel is a life that is much better than anything you have previously experienced.

Your life has been for other people. If your wife does not respect your choices as regarding your faith or lack of, then you will have to have some serious talks....without the crying she does. No person should live like that. Your kids deserve to know your reasons as much as they are able to comprehend also. Don't leave kids in the dark.....so unfair. And when they are older they won't ever have to say to you.. WHY didn't you tell me?

One thing for sure....be happy. YOU seem quite sure you made the right decision so show it by being happy. If wifey thinks this is a horrible thing for you to do, then you have got big problems. BE honest in every discussion and be able to compromise too as others have said. Just don't be one who sulks since wifey is being rude to you. Keep your positive attitude and maybe she will see how lucky she is to have a man with such a good outlook in life even tho different than her own.

But for sure....don't let this go on too long where she is crying all the time. It won't work and she needs to know that.

It's hard because your whole world has turned upside-down. You have to choose between your integrity and the familiar and comfortable. It's a very difficult situation to be placed in and it's so unfair. You were lied to - you were the victim, yet you are being made to feel like the villain. You aren't. You are right and deserve to be heard.

The good news is that, like others have said, you WILL get through this. It gets easier once everyone adjusts to the new reality. Life in general is so much easier when you aren't the slave of LDS Inc. You'll find so much more peace and happiness being true to yourself. Good luck. Feel free to come here and talk things through any time you like. We've all been there.

I know the last thing you want to hear is "be patient", but my wife waiting 7 years while I continued to be an uber TBM. Our family of 6 resigned together last November. Be true to yourself, but allow some time for others to to journey towards truth on their own timetable. I wish you the best.

First of all, you're not the "cause of this." You are not responsible for your wife's happiness. She is.

You've got enough on your plate trying to deal with realizing that the Church is not what it claims to be.

As you live a genuine life, you will begin to heal. My self-esteem began to heal the moment I left.

But your wife's issues are her own and she needs to work through them herself. Just be extra loving and patient with her, showing her that you're still the wonderful guy that she married.

She will work it out, or she won't, but that's her responsibility and not yours. Don't let anyone guilt you into thinking otherwise either.

By withdrawing from the chronically dishonest LDS Church (kudos to you for acting with courage and integrity to the truth!), you've burst the belief 'bubble' of your wife, the one that cultic Mormonism 'programmed' her to psychologically embrace about being a "wife and mother in Zion." No wonder she's "trippled her activity"! She could quadruple it and Mo-ism wouldn't be any less of a demonstrable fraud than it is.

You don't have to return to the misleading and manipulative Mormon Church - ever. The choice to participate or not is yours to make and no one else's. You're the captain of the ship of your life; it'll go in whichever direction you set.

You have every right to feel angry. The duplicitous, multi-billion-dollar LD$ Church systematically misled you about JS, the BoM, early church history, and more, and took money from you (assuming you paid "tithes and offerings"). You were deceived and defrauded.

The sadness you've been feeling is quite understandable because you've suffered a great loss. Much of what you were taught by the Mormon Church to believe was 'true', wasn't. Your former sense of being/self as "a true believer" is no more. And yes, psychologically, there is no going back. No one can increase in their awareness and experience personal growth, even if it's a painful process, and turn back the clock. The only direction to go in one's life is forward.

In truth, there is no need to "feel pathetic", although the emotion is also understandable. You were misled by a patriarchal organization that has deceived MILLIONS of people. You were 'programmed' by the Mormon Church to regard yourself, other people, the world and universe, 'God', this life, an afterlife, JS, the BoM, and much more through Latter-day Saint psychological 'lenses'. What you didn't know in years past was how distorted they were.

In Greek mythology, a phoenix was a bird that died and was reborn from the ashes of its predecessor. In a sense, the myth applies to you: your old Mormon self, the product of years of LDS 'programming', is dying, as it needs to for the new you, your authentic self, to come into being. In the past 17 years of the Internet Age alone, countless former Mormons have gone through this necessary process. Despite all the drama and tears at home, your true self is emerging.

Bear in mind that we teach people how to treat us. You're not obliged to be sheepish (a doormat) as far as your wife is concerned. You may need to assert yourself and make clear to her what is and is not acceptable to you in relation to the LD$ Church and religion.

If your wife remains deeply involved in cultic Mormonism, you may decide at some point that you need to end your marriage. A chronically unhappy marriage wears on a person's 'soul', as it were. Don't be afraid to take this step in the future if you need to. Again, it's your life; you're responsible for the quality of it.

Below are posts of mine and news reports and articles that may be of use to you.

Feel free to post here as often as you wish or need to.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that your wife comes around to recognizing that Mormonism is a fraud.

Info.:

Your best chance of eventually convincing your wife that the LDS Church was dishonest with you both (and millions of other Mormons) comes from official church sources, as explained in the following posts of mine:

Church articles about JS using his hat and supposedly magical rock to 'translate' the BoM: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1009962,1010482#msg-1010482

Latter-day Saints wouldn’t experience ‘Shaken Faith Syndrome’ if Mormonism was true: http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/37675/

A huge list of JS' wives on the LDS Church's FamilySearch.org website: https://familysearch.org/search/trees#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AJoseph%20%2Bsurname%3ASmith%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22Sharon%2C%20Vermont%22%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1805-1805&collection_id=%282%203%29 (click on any of the "Joseph Smith" links to see the individual records).

The LDS Church's online genealogy record for JS' first illegal plural wife, Fanny Alger: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SP82-WTV

JS knew polygamy "doctrines and principles" from 1831 onward: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1004646,1004926#msg-1004926

JS made the wives of 11 men his plural wives as well as seven teenage girls (two were 14) and several single women: http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

Your wife should read: "In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith": http://signaturebooks.com/2010/02/in-sacred-loneliness-the-plural-wives-of-joseph-smith/

Between 2003 and 2005, LDS Church-owned Deseret Books sold "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins" by Mormon and retired LDS CES director Grant Palmer. The publisher's webpage is http://signaturebooks.com/2010/02/an-insiders-view-of-mormon-origins-2/ (it's another book your wife should read).

Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church: http://signaturebooks.com/2010/02/losing-a-lost-tribe-native-americans-dna-and-the-mormon-church/

Report by ABC News in SLC in Jan. 2012: "Number of faithful Mormons rapidly declining": http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/Number-of-faithful-Mormons-rapidly-declining/rvih3gOKxEm5om9IYJYnRA.cspx

Reuters Special report (Jan. 2012) - "Mormonism besieged by the modern age" - http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/01/30/uk-mormonchurch-idUKTRE80T1CP20120130

The New York Times on July 20/13: "Some Mormons Search the Web and Find Doubt": http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/us/some-mormons-search-the-web-and-find-doubt.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

July 2012 in-depth news piece for Bloomberg Businessweek about the multi-billion-dollar LD$ Church's corporate empire, annual tithing take, and relatively meager charitable donations: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money

Aug. 13/12 NBC News report, "Mormon church earns $7 billion a year from tithing, analysis indicates": http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/13/13262285-mormon-church-earns-7-billion-a-year-from-tithing-analysis-indicates?lite

Mountain Meadows Massacre info. (involving Mormon men):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre and http://www.lds.org/ensign/2007/09/the-mountain-meadows-massacre?lang=eng

On the titlepage of the 1st edition of the BoM (1830), JS had himself identified as the book's "Author": http://www.inephi.com/1.htm (it certainly wasn't written by ancient Americans of imagined Hebrew ancestry!)

I was once upset with my husband, just as your wife is with you. (I didn't cry, though, but respected his rights as an individual). It was the end of "The Eternal Family" the end of having a husband take me and the kids to the Celestial Kingdom. He told me everything he had learned that proved the Mormon church to be false, and he didn't hold back. I didn't believe him. I was devastated that he believed all of this.

However, within a year, the children and I were out of the cult!

Instead of trying to take something away from me and our children, my husband brought more to our life. As doors opened up to him, he opened them up to us. He made a deal with me: I could go to church, and take the children with me, and he would not bad-mouth the Mormons or give me a hard time. In exchange, I would not bad-mouth him or punish him for not attending. He told me that he would not pay any more money to what he knew was a hoax cult, and he would not attend or support any of our church activities. He stuck by that rule, and we agreed to disagree. I couldn't help but admire his integrity. I saw, first-hand, how rudely the Mormons treated him when he became inactive. I had to answer the phone and the door, when the Mormons--and his family--love-bombed. His mother blamed me for his apostasy. My husband was quiet and polite, and calmly let the Mormons show their nasty side. We lost many friends. Our couples social life was over. I was looked upon as the wife of an "inactive," and lost my status in the ward.

If you relax and are kind and patient, the Mormon people and the Mormon scriptures will fall apart on their own. All your wife needs to do is keep loving you, and keep enjoying you. The Truth will prevail.

My husband and I had our children to raise, our investments, sports and hobbies in common. There were other things to talk about. Church became much less important than before. He started new family traditions, such as Sunday breakfast at the little donut shop by the beach. We still could get to church on time, but we had to leave the beach, and leave Daddy, to go sit in that stuffy, boring, depressing place for 3 hours. When we got home, Daddy would have the barbecue started, or plans to go back to the beach, the park, sometimes a movie--you get the idea. Weekends became all about family fun, together. Church was just an interruption. We made better friends with the soccer parents, and the parents at the kids' school. My husband and I volunteered there, and ended up making a difference in the community. Life really opened up!

I was a typical Mormon wife. You need to work on your wife's emotions, because Mormonism is based on emotions. You know it isn't based on Truth. Not based on logic, or common sense. Trust me, it will get you nowhere to argue or debate with your wife--once you have given her the facts, just once. Then, you keep quiet, and stand your ground. Don't criticize. My husband did laugh a few times, when something was ridiculous.

Give your wife and children lots of love--because there is no love in the Mormon church. I know you and your wife and your children will get through the rough times ahead. Remember, Mormonism is a cult, and cults make it very hard to leave. Stay strong. Don't let them hurt your family. Keep posting here on RFM. We have all been through similar experiences, and have thrived! Life outside of Mormonism is like living in sunshine!

I am the chaff Wrote:
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> ... I can hardly take being the cause of this.

You are *NOT* the cause. The *church* is the cause.

Keep that in mind. It'll help as you re-orient on reality.

Asking all those with experience here.....

Would it be beneficial for that couple to go to non religious, non-lds marriage counseling now or play the wait and see game?

For someone to change or stop their religious affiliation only to cause his wife (not really him causing it but she herself is) such emotional grief.

If I did this and my wife acted like this and it would stop after ~1month or so, then I would be talking to a lawyer......