I was just thinking that it's highly likely that, along with various racist and false statements that various GAs have made throughout history, it's probable that some of them said some extremely stupid things also. It's probable that some of them did some very stupid (not just deceptive, but stupid) things in their lives.

Hinckley seemed to have his share of stupid moments. I remember once in Conference when he said that he "searched in vain" for a group of men like those who were in the Continental Congress in the colonial days. Did he forget that many of them were slaveholders? I wonder how the Quorums of the Seventy felt when he said that. What a dumb thing to say.

So, I ask you to submit your nominations for stupidest (not just least educated, mind you) GA ever. Feel free to support your nomination with examples.

There are so many to choose from. My top one is "when the prophet has spoken, the thinking is done". There is also the one about not liking hoistorians because they value the truth and the enemies of the church being gays, feminists and intellectuals.

One was BKP and I don't remember the other for sure-maybe Oaks. I have been out for years and don't follow the GAs any more.

I believe the second ones posted by bona dea was good old BKP - pretty sure.

They show an understanding of the untenable position of the LDS Church. Packer's a jerk but he clearly understood relatively early on just how damaging the Church's history would be to it, and how threatening feminism and gay rights were to its patriarchal structure. You have to remember there was a time, and it isn't really that long ago, that even the leaders of the LDS Church thought its history would ultimately vindicate it. Packer knew that was b.s.

Darth Packer was the one who hated historians, as quoted by D. Michael Quinn.

Here is the "thinking done" reference:

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."1

Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945

http://www.mormondoctrine.net/did_they_really_say_that/thinking_done.htm

axeldc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
" To think otherwise, without immediate repentance,
> may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony,
> and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."1
>

if by the kingdom of God they mean LDS kingdom ... let's all hope so! Let's hope more 'think otherwise, and become a stranger to the kingdom'. Amen to that.

In retrospect, what BKP says may seem stupid, but it is actually the truth, and I don't think anyone has said a more truthful thing when it comes to the LDS church.

He is not as dumb as he looks.

Paul H. Dunn. He was a great story teller. I loved his tapes. But they were all only stories. Why didn't he just say that in the beginning?

If he would have said these are only fiction, but I tell them to make a point I would have been fine with that.

Kind of like the Book of Mormon right now.

Because when he warned the students at the BYU Marriott center fireside not to masturbate, he wept.

Jeff "Droopy Dog" Holland making this statement about apostates in his October 2009 General Conference weepfest:

"...and if he or she leaves this Church, it must be done by crawling over or under or around the Book of Mormon to make that exit."

I didn't crawl over, under, or around it (sounds like something you'd have to confess to as an unnatural act when being grilled at a temple recommend interview). However, if I were a boy, and if I were a dog, I might have lifted my leg on it, which might have given the paper the look of aged, ancient paper. Mark Hoffman then could have used the peed-on pages to fashion another unflattering historical document Gordy would have used tithing dollars to purchase, real hush-hush-like.

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Droopy-Dog-cartoon-classics-299389_800_600.jpg

Did he tell them that it killed kittens?

In the Imporovement Era, June 1945 contains the following quote as part of a Ward Teachers’ message:

When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan–it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.

This is the law of common consent, paramount in the LDS teachings and part of the law of obedience.

In a speech given in 1981, Apostle Boyd K. Packer made these comments:

There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful.

Historians seem to take great pride in publishing something new, particularly if it illustrates a weakness or mistake of a prominent historical figure....

The writer or the teacher who has an exaggerated loyalty to the theory that everything must be told is laying a foundation for his own judgment....

That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith... places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities...

Oh that silly ole grizzly bear. You just can't stage manage him.

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan–it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."

But what if they're just speaking as men?

Dallin Oakes from the pbs special a few years ago, "The life of the mind can be seen in flat out opposition to one's faith." I ask, give me a break, now how is that exactly done?

Another from Mr. Hoax, same pbs special, " It is wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true."

What is this, Nazi Germany???? Who in this day in age, of any credibility can get away with saying such ridiculous things, and actually have most of their followers agree and obey such crap. What a pile. What a convenient way to insulate themselves as GA's from ANY criticism whatsoever. He seems to be screaming in his second statement, " Okay, we may be liars, but we do not want to hear about it!"

Was it not Oakes that also made the statement posted above about when the profit speaks the thinking is over. I remember hearing that and saying outloud, "Mine's NOT, my thinking will never be over!" Someone please let me know who said that.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2011 11:49PM by think4u.

At least in terms of common sense and consistently-applied logic.

"To the Young Men Only" booklet

Totally designed to make teenaged boys feel like pieces of s**t.

And Boyd, my factory isn't little!

you go 6-iron!

Okay, it was not the most offensive, but the pickle talk (don't remember who gave it) was sure stupid.
'as a pickle is, a cucumber one day may be'... and vice versa. Kind of a comparison to the man may become as God is, and God was once a man crap, that GBH is not sure that they teach that?

Maybe they no longer teach that, maybe all they teach now is about pickles and cucumbers?

Anyone has that talk? It was about some pickle and the brine thing.

David Bednar! What an asshat.

Ron

Spencer Kimball, who told a serial bomber, "I love you."

He claimed passionate kissing an abomination and results in unplanned pregnancies. Did this guy even know where babies came from?

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/dating/passionate_kissing.html

Another two for Spencer W(TF) Kimball:

1. For proclaiming some Lamanites were changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

At the October 1960 LDS Church Conference, Spencer Kimball utilized 2 Nephi 30:6 when he stated how the Indians "are fast becoming a white and delightsome people." He said, "The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation" (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3).

During the same message Kimball referred to a 16-year-old Indian girl who was both LDS and "several shades lighter than her parents..." He went on to say, "These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated."

[I tried to include the link to the site from which I copied the information, but the warning in red font (and we all know red font means you fuckered up) said I was bad--even, very bad. I had to remove the link before it would let me pass Go and collect my $200.]


2. For being the author of that MormonMindFuck known as "The Miracle of Forgiveness."

counselor in the First Presidency from 1959 to 1963. Wiki says his extravagant building programs placed a considerable financial strain upon the church and President David O. McKay found it necessary to relieve Moyle from many of his administrative responsibilities.

I hear he damn near ran the church into bankruptcy and was so clueless that nobody could reason with him. They had to exile him to Florida, where he died. His family says he "died of a broken heart" which tells me he was clueless to the very end.

Plus, his middle name makes me think of "Dimwit."

That said, I think I have to concede that SWK is the winner. Some poster here met him when SWK visited a mission in Europe, and said that in unscripted conversation he was really very simple-minded, embarrassingly so.

+1

I think this is a trick question.

The real question is "has there been a bright GA?"

William Law was bright enough to get out of the church and try to expose JS. Though he was dim enough to still believe that the church was once true. But who can blame him, he lived in a time when they had not yet figured out alot of stupid beliefs were false.

George P Lee was pretty damned stupid,fuckin child molester.

Didn't Steve Benson post a letter here that Stapley wrote to George Romney warning him against being in favor of civil rights? What a clueless racist.

I remember hearing him speak at the Marriot center and could not believe what a dimwit he was, and a special witness of Christ no less.

What a guy.

Didier. It's no contest. Dumb as a stump and mean too boot. Dangerous combination.

Ron

Ever read his talks for content? There is very little there, except for judgment and disdain. I don't think he knows very much else. I doubt he reads much or knows very much about history or doctrine, except for whatever supports his sneering, piss poor attitude.

I do want to add a female GA, namely Julie Blech for THE WORST GC TALK of all time for me:

http://lds.org/ensign/2007/11/mothers-who-know?lang=eng

These statements really piss me off:

"Mothers who know desire to bear children. Whereas in many cultures in the world children are “becoming less valued,” in the culture of the gospel we still believe in having children."

No shit, Sherlock! Children are also prized in other cultures! Just look at the Duggars!

"Mothers who know honor sacred ordinances and covenants. I have visited sacrament meetings in some of the poorest places on the earth where mothers have dressed with great care in their Sunday best despite walking for miles on dusty streets and using worn-out public transportation. They bring daughters in clean and ironed dresses with hair brushed to perfection; their sons wear white shirts and ties and have missionary haircuts."

So only appearance counts?

" Another word for nurturing is homemaking. Homemaking includes cooking, washing clothes and dishes, and keeping an orderly home."

Gees, I've never found that in any thesaurus.

"These wise mothers who know are selective about their own activities and involvement to conserve their limited strength in order to maximize their influence where it matters most."

So we're the weaker sex, eh?

"Mothers who know are willing to live on less and consume less of the world’s goods . . . . "

How can you do that when TSCC advocates having as many kids as possible??

What a fucking jerk!

I am sorry to do this, but most of the other nominees are not even close. Paul Dunn was masterful in his story telling, that makes him clever & deceitful, not stupid. Sure he got caught sooner than he expected but look at all the other fairy tale garbage that MORmONS so readily swallow with out question.

Gordon Hinckley was pretty damn dumb, but James Faust was even more stupid than that. Its pretty hard to top going on national TV & uttering the title "Jesus Smith" as Hinckley did to Tom Brokaw, or lambasting clinton presidential corruption while pimping your personal book titled "standing for Something" as Hinckley did on Larry king live, only to have his LDS Inc church outed as the cash source for the 2002 OLYmpic bribes scandal just days later, but James Faust could do it.

3. Faust of German Heritage,(sorry Germans, I know how this hurts as I have german lineage too) had family on both sides of WWI, Faust divulged in a conf talk that after the war family discussions revealed that close family members were actually on both sides of a specific battle line at the same time & exact place, & that it was entirely possible, evenlikely, that family members could have traded rifle shots at one another. Faust was quite proud of his family blind comittment & devotion to duty, whatever the flag! EVEN if it meant shooting each other!

It would have been the most opportune time as an (ahem) *apostle* to note the foolishness of war, the propriety of (supposed) christian condemnation of waring & the desperate need to avoid such foolishness, INSTEAD Faust concluded that it was OK to be caught up in such idiocy because its a common liability of being subject to fallible governments of man.

As a MORmON *apostle* Faust showed that there is no sense in longing for the higher peaceful aspirations of Christianity,
because the common brutality so prevalent in this world even in the violent zenith of war is entirely understandable, acceptable & excusable in the long run. With that in mind, WHy was it that Jesus even bothered with a Mortal ministry! MORmON!

2. Faust actually purchased & openly displayed the personally aquired gold fillings extracted from an impoverish south american member's mouth as the members only way to contribute to regional LDS Temple construction. Faust was most proud of this faith promoting dental prop. The fact that Nazi's had like wise seen jewish dental work as a resource went right Faust's dim bulb head. LDS INC reacted by pulling Fausts talk where he used the dental prop when this embarrassing detail was pointed out.

1. Faust told the story of "the little engine that could" in general priesthood meeting. the presentation was so infantile & foolish that Even Hinckley was forced to quip about it after ward.

Thank your for the info about Faust. I look at Dunn as fun but you have helped me to see Faust in a way I never have before.

Let me guess... the gold dental fillings most likely belong to someone from the AMAZON or North Brasil area? It is a very unfortunate thing, but I was the first person baptized by my father in the Amazon, in the Amazon River, in 1976. My family had just moved to Manuas as my father was working as an engineer on a large project. The church did not exist there at the time, and we held meetings in our living room every Sunday. After about 1 year we found another family and in 1976 I was baptized, and shortly after my sister. We eventually had about 4 families meeting in our house.

Then we had the 'pleasure' of accepting Faust into our home while he 'officially' dedicated the 'church' in the Amazon/north Brasil area. It is such a shame that at the time my family were hardcore mormons. The cancer of this church spread very fast in that place, and people will do all kinds of fanatical sacrifices, including pulling their fillings out.

When the Sao Paulo temple opened up in 1978 (at the same time that the black's magically where allowed to received the priesthood - but only after the Brasil government treathned to not only halt building, but also remove the church's charity status), Faust was very eagar to tell stories of people that sacrificed their own teeth fillings in order to be able to afford to attend the temple. Or he would tell stories of poor people that sacrificed for years to get their education, but the final exam happened at the same time as the planned temple trip, and they skipped the exam, but attended the temple, having to them redo an entire year's worth of school, or forget it all together as they could not afford.

He was an A$$hole of the highest degree to guilt people into thinking this type of sacrifice should be expected or applauded from anyone.

All this talk from someone who is filthy rich and does not know a day of sacrifice in his comfy life. Why does he not rip out his own teeth and tell people how he was able to help a poor soul with his own gold fillings? That would have been more worthy of a story.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Mark E. Petersen.

Mark would win meanest for sure, in ny opinion

So many to choose from but Spencer Kimball takes the cake. When that nutcase wrote The Miracle of Forgiveness he removed all doubt that a village somewhere was missing its idiot.

-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65

"Immorality [petting, premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality and masturbation] brings generally a guilt deep and lasting. These guilt complexes are the stuff of which mental breakdowns come; they are the building blocks of suicide, the fabric of distorted personalities and the wounds that scar and decapitate individuals or families."


Really Spence? The man had zero understanding of human behavior. He seems to have made huge assumptions from his own sexually troubled existence and put them in print for all to see. The man probably had an eye for the family dog and the neighbor's sheep.

that it is hard to choose just one. I'll go with ALL OF THEM FROM THE BEGINNING.

I don't know any names, but who was it that used the "Pickle" analogy a few years back?

This was the man that bought Mark Hoffman's forgings for a lot of money and then found out they were fakes. Now why didn't they get suspicious when Brother Hoffman kept finding these rare historical finds?

Hinkley talked about the great depression and frugality but was a huge spender of church funds. He burned through money like there was no tomorrow.

Gordon loved media attention. He hired a Jewish Madison Avenue public relations agency to help mainstream the church. He hung out in private press clubs with media heavyweights. He did interviews. He looked like a scared fool denying basic church doctrines but was happy as a clam to point to church assets and say this was a sign of success.

Hinckley gave permission to build the huge downtown mall project. This committed the church to spend billions of dollars right before a commercial and residential real estate crash. It will suck money out of the coffers and be a white elephant for years to come with empty space. Hinckley tears up downtown Salt Lake to build something that has gone out of style and the economy doesn't need. Hows that for prophecy?

For agreeing to turn over his 14 year old daughter to Ol' Joe after being threatened with the angel of death and a flaming sword. . . .

. . . .that or he was just evil and traded his daughter over in exchange for joining the poly club and having access to his own brood of young women.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2011 02:07PM by mav.

Someone asked about smart GAs. Among the smartest was B. H. Roberts, who actually did some independent thinking about problems with Mormonism. Hugh B. Brown also made some really insightful statements about following the truth with no fear for where it might lead. And Ronald Poelman delivered a talk about free agency that was sharp enough to require really extensive censorship from his more authoritarian brethren.

Joseph Fielding for denying evolution.