Yep, it was when Spencer Kimball was visiting the "Lamanites" in Arizona(?) and said to the mother "I do belive your children are getting whiter!". I shit my pants (virtually).
Have people walk in to my house(just open the door) I did not know call me by name and tell me they loved me and I need to come back. This happened 3 time in 6 weeks the last time my dog bite the husband. And yes I did call the cop's 1st.
I was at a point where sitting through Sacrament meeting was painful, but I didn’t fully realize why. When a “call” came to be the ward clerk (again), the stake president suggested that I “strengthen my testimony.” I took the challenge seriously in that I started to explore the many issues I had previously put on the shelf. In a matter of weeks I was out. God being shown with an erection in my scriptures was the tipping point including the Book of Abraham in general. BoM historicity issues and observed changes in doctrine (such as the Lectures on Faith being removed from scripture, that clearly state that God is a spirit without a body) were also major contributing factors.
Tipping point for temple was going through with daughter and realizing that it was all about polygamy. Never went back again.
Tipping point for attending PH was sitting there listening to a lesson on apostacy and realizing that it was full of lies and historical inaccuracies and I couldn't sit through any more of that nonsense.
Tipping point for the church in general was probably Prop 8.
I don't think there was any last straw for me. It was more like a series of WTF moments over several years. Among them, was the cognitive dissonance from all the anachronisms in the BofM, the fact that the church doesn't even agree with the doctrines presented in the BofM(polygamy is bad, god is a spirit, etc). One of the biggest WTF moments was when, in tithing settlement, I admitted to being a partial tithepayer, and the Bishop wanted to confiscate not only my temple recommend, but my wife's TR as well, even though she paid a full tithing on her own income. His position was that my money is also her money, so if tithing is not paid on my income, she is just as guilty as I am. I continued to pay tithing for another 2 years after that, even though I never went to the temple. I hated it, but DW likes to go. I finally came out to my wife at the beginning of the year as a non-believer, and told her I was not going to pay tithing anymore. I guess it just takes time to cut the cord completely for some people.
Realizing that if the God of the Book of Mormon is real, he was not once a man. Mormonism then became a man made institution once I realized Mormonism could not keep the nature of God straight, and to this day, still can't.
At BYU when I discovered some of the racist quotes from Brigham Young. I was seriously pissed. I asked myself what kind of a god would appoint a man who believed and preached this crap?
When I went home, I decided to bear my testimony to see if I felt anything; I felt absolutely nothing but contempt for the religion I was forcibly raised in.
Finding out the best I could hope for would be a man that would only be with me because he felt sorry for me and then becomeing a blind baby makeng mashine.
1. I never felt the spirit and I couldn't fake it.
2. Paul Dunn lying. I was in the army and was interested in military history, I figured his storys were not truthful, but I figured he was just speaking as a man. I mentioned this to the bish, he went ballistic. I found out later that Paul was lying.
3. The altered history. Mountain meadows, etc.
4. The constant demand for more, but no thanks.
5. A bish that gave the worst marriage advice ever.
Yes, when I was in a history class, (not at BYU), and someone in the class said, " you know joseph smith copied the BoM from another book from a guy named Spaulding". Honestly, the thought never even occurred to me. Cognitive disadence kicked in and it took me another couple of months till I realized that it was over.
First was at the very beginning of my mission. Nothing direct or overt, just a vague feeling that the people I was preaching at would not be happier if they were Mormon, and the beginnings of a latent notion that the mission would be my final service to the cult but it didn't dwell in my conscious mind much and I never justified it.
Second was the notorious BoA. I was exposed to many "anti" points during my mission but I took the BoA problem square in the gut. My testimony of Joe Smith spontaneously vanished out of my mind as if I'd been carrying feathers in a windstorm. I had felt so close to "Brother Joseph," even had a bigger testimony of him than of Jesus. But it effectively vaporized with the BoA exposed. I then saw him as a magnetic leader flying by the seat of his pants, but suppressed it.
Strike three was also on my mission, the fall 2002 priesthood session of conference. Ballard addressed the missionaries and said "remember elders when you go home you are released from your mission, not released from the church." That was a major epiphany where everything rose to the conscious mind. Ballard provided me a precedent. I had no conscious idea releasing myself from the church was even an option. From then on rather that internal conflict I enjoyed a sense of inner liberation for the second half of my mission, since I knew I was to be released from the church, not just the mission.
FARMS and FAIR’s responses to the BOA created the lid and a bag of nails for me.
The final nail was the destruction of the “heaven” that I was taught. That heaven was destroyed when I was reading the book “A Friendly Discussion: Mormonism - Pro and Con” by Ed Bliss.
That’s how I learned about Emanuel Swedenborg. Joseph stole Mormonism’s concepts of heaven from Emanuel and called it revelation and that was the last nail.
For me, it was seeing that the members and church officials had no interest in honesty. They would either turn from the facts stating it was "anti" material, or just outright lie.
When I would bring something up from the history of the church that was less than flattering, they would say, "Well, you can't know that, you weren't there". But at the same time, they had no problem with the history as long as it spoke highly of the church in some way.
When was the last time you heard a mormon say, "Yeah, Joseph may have seen god, but I can't really say, I wasn't there". They had no integrity, and that was all I needed to see.
the deceit--I can see clearly the deceit. It's very difficult for me to trust but now that I have left and am attending another church where I'm getting help with this problem this I feel much much better.
She gives good descriptions of the culture in the FLDS, the way the people live and believe and relate to each other. Or not.
Although the FLDS is not the LDS, I see disturbing similarities in the way they think, what fears and limitations drive them, and the isolation of individuals from each other vs the LDS culture. As it should be I guess, seeing as how the polygamists have held on to the original J.Smith world.
I'm thinking of abused and degraded Sister-Wives who cannot leave because they have to have a man to get them into heaven. what a cruel man that Joseph Smith was, cruel and wicked.
And then my Personal Priesthood Interview with a real-life General Authority to discuss my concerns. He was the most arrogant and pompous ass and did nothing to help or answer my questions.
I could name fifteen problems that made the Mormon church intolerable, but for some reason I wussed along. The last straw was the Book of Abraham. It's a provable fraud, and by the time I learned about it, I was unwilling to put up with any more of it. Then when I heard all the weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth from my Mormon friends and family, I knew I had done the right thing.
After years of turmoil I finally left when Hinkley said that people in their private prayers were not to pray to Mother in Heaven. I wasn't involved in that practice but thought it was immoral for him to insert himself into private prayer life which I believe is a sacred space.
I officially resigned 12 years later when Elizabeth Smart was found with a polygamist. I didn't want my name to be affiliated in any way with an organization supporting the doctrine of polygamy which substantially motivated her mentally-ill kidnapper.
in the Sun Also Rises that a character lost his mind, "gradually then suddenly."
This quote was also used often to describe people who found themselves financially ruined.
For me, it was this. A long string of tiny little cracks, and then the dam seemed to burst so suddenly that I can't remember a "last straw" particularly.
I had been reasearching for many months on the B of A, having decided that it was the one thing that could be completely proven or disproven, and trying to resurrect my faith. When I heard that the professor that taught heiroglyphics at BYU was publishing a book about the Papyri, I was excited. This was his chance to vindicate the B of A. He could translate egyptian!
When I got the book, I was shocked that all he did was dance around the real issues. He didn't offer a translation of the facsimiles or papyri. THAT would have settled the question of whether JS was a prophet. But he avoided that. hmmmm I WONDER why?
He tried to say that we have the wrong papyri and that's why they don't match the B of A. But he ignored the fact that the facsimiles were published by JS himself when he was the editor at the Nauvoo newspaper. JS personally approved them and wrote about it in his journal. Gee also tried to downplay the importance of the Alphabet and Grammar. Basically, he tried to discredit the critics of the Book of Abraham point by point without actually TRANSLATING the facsimiles or discussing the accuracy of the translation.
That was it. His unwillingness to address the quality of the translation said it all to me. I felt sure that if JS's translation was any where NEAR correct, he certainly would have shouted it from the rooftops. Come to think of it, the church would have shouting it from the rooftops since the late 60's when the papyri were first found.
By leaving OUT the translation, he perpetuated a LIE. He certainly must KNOW the B of A is a complete fabrication, and yet he tries to keep people from learning the truth by writing a book defending it.
I grew my hair out in support of my character (for my magic shows) and moved to a new city. I was the same person, but I was treated very differently and so was my family. It was a blind experiment in the making. I could not figure out how the discernment of the BP and SP did not know that I was the same motivated TBM I always was. The abusive behavior by many ward members and especially the leaders was interesting to watch (in hindsight) and painful to live through. But, because of it, when my shelf fell (my epiphany moment), my family was prime to follow with me. For the critical three month time period, I prayed so hard, trying to make all the pieces fit. When the shelf broke, I noticed that all of the pieces fell together, and the puzzle was complete. Mormonism was a fraud and I did not have to wait until death for the answers.
Three cheers for AssHat leaders!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 10:54PM by luminouswatcher.
My Mormon-hating atheist grandpa with the pink car told me when I was very little that there was no god, and I suspected he was right and never really believed any Mormon stuff, although I did try because my parents made out like they knew what they were doing.
If I had a last straw, it was my wasted year at Ricks Big Churchy High School. Really, though, I just quit going to church because I no longer had to. I didn't even attend services that whole year at Ricks, and nobody said anything about it ... not to my face, anyway.
I'll never forget our conversation together around the breakfast table that Saturday. I had asked the children why they made a fuss and even cried, and always begged me not to make them go to church:
Several times, when I was at church, my sons would go back to bed (they delivered the early morning Sunday paper), and the male adult leaders would walk into my house and into their bedrooms, and throw them out of bed and onto the floor, and kick them with their feet, until they got up. We were new in the ward, and those men were strangers! Can you imagine how frightening that would be to a 12-year-old, or anyone, who was sound asleep in their own bed? After this happened to my older boy a few times, he screamed at the men that they were trespassing, and that he would call the police. These thugs later were promoted up the ranks to Stake President, Mission President.
They hadn't told me, because the Mormons had threatened that I would become angry and punish them. I was a supporter of the cult because I played the organ and piano over there every Sunday; therefore, the children thought I would naturally take the church's side against my own children.
The Bishop's model missionary son had put his hands all over my little girl, while she was asleep at a ward camping trip. The Bishop and the other leaders there had threatened my daughter and her friends who witnessed it, that if they told, they would be punished. They were told to "forgive", like Christ forgave! They were told they would be held accountable for the souls not baptized if the creepy boy were not allowed to go on his mission. Garbage! This bishop was promoted to mission president and then to the general authority Seventies.
I still believed that the church was true, but the second I heard my children's stories (my children don't lie). I told them that they never had to set foot in a Mormon church again! And then I apologized that I had tried to force them to attend. And then I asked their forgiveness, that I was so strict that they felt they couldn't tell me things, or come to me for help.
Maybe someday I'll forgive myself.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2010 03:46AM by forestpal.
forestpal Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'll never forget our conversation together around > the breakfast table that Saturday. I had asked > the children why they made a fuss and even cried, > and always begged me not to make them go to > church: > > Several times, when I was at church, my sons would > go back to bed (they delivered the early morning > Sunday paper), and the male adult leaders would > walk into my house and into their bedrooms, and > throw them out of bed and onto the floor, and kick > them with their feet, until they got up. We were > new in the ward, and those men were strangers! > Can you imagine how frightening that would be to a > 12-year-old, or anyone, who was sound asleep in > their own bed? After this happened to my older > boy a few times, he screamed at the men that they > were trespassing, and that he would call the > police. These thugs later were promoted up the > ranks to Stake President, Mission President. > > They hadn't told me, because the Mormons had > threatened that I would become angry and punish > them. I was a supporter of the cult because I > played the organ and piano over there every > Sunday; therefore, the children thought I would > naturally take the church's side against my own > children. > > The Bishop's model missionary son had put his > hands all over my little girl, while she was > asleep at a ward camping trip. The Bishop and the > other leaders there had threatened my daughter and > her friends who witnessed it, that if they told, > they would be punished. They were told to > "forgive", like Christ forgave! They were told > they would be held accountable for the souls not > baptized if the creepy boy were not allowed to go > on his mission. Garbage! This bishop was > promoted to mission president and then to the > general authority Seventies. > > I still believed that the church was true, but the > second I heard my children's stories (my children > don't lie). I told them that they never had to > set foot in a Mormon church again! And then I > apologized that I had tried to force them to > attend. And then I asked their forgiveness, that > I was so strict that they felt they couldn't tell > me things, or come to me for help. > > Maybe someday I'll forgive myself.
I had a lot of problems with quite a bit of it. I was always extremely uncomfortable with the Mormon conceptions of God. But I tended to put those away and focus on the other things that I liked. When I began reading Brodie, I found my worldview becoming increasingly rattled. I had even considered looking into the RLDS for a time.
In the later chapters of Brodie's book, I was exposed to Joseph Smith's polygamy. I simply could not get over his taking the wives of other men and the marrying of very young girls. Then came the chapter of John C. Bennett. I was so terribly shaken by the whole thing. I saw JS appoint a sleaze, perhaps the sleaziest in the whole cavalcade of sleazedom which is Morminism, to the highest quorums of the church. I knew then that he had no gifts of discernment, that his whole credibility was questionable at best, that much of Mormonism depends entirely on his testimony alone, and given that he was such as a questionable person, how on earth could I accept anything he taught as true?
I am fascinated to learn what other people's tipping points are. Polygamy is a frequent one. I remember Latayne C. Scott saying that her's was noticing the figure JS identified as pharoah was actually a woman.
Of course, the gay issue was the tipping point for me, but it still took me a long time to get out.
I went inactive and I always thought I'd go back. When I didn't keep going every week (every day) for the indoctrination, eventually it all just fell apart. I oftentimes tell people who are struggling when they start losing belief to just take a vacation and don't think about it. If you don't get that programming on a regular basis, it does fall apart.
In 1973 I was 14 years old...My parents had stopped attending church but I kept going....I was told one Sunday my parents were going to hell because they didn't attend church...Haven't been back since...
When the bishop came to my home to straighten me out regarding my too-many disturbing questions in sunday school, he said the words of Joseph Smith supercede those of Jesus Christ because he (Joseph) is the later prophet.
Initially, it was the idea that if everyone is a god, there is no god. Later it was the realization that I had been duped to believing this church worshipped Jesus Christ the same way "other" Christians do.
Couldn't stand the small minded views of homosexuals. I knew that if Christ were real, he wouldn't be espousing the homophobia I was seeing. He would be the fit to wine and dine with them, just as he did with others, as per the Bible.
I was already on shaky ground theologically when my bishop called me in and asked me if I was having sex with another guy in the ward. I know who tipped him off and why, and it was completely untrue.
On the way home, I was so angry I said to myself, "Who does he think he is?" Then it hit me, he's just a busybody old man with no authority over. The only reason I let him interrogate was because the church told me to. Once I realized that I was giving him all his power, it was over. I never attended regularly again.