A lot of you have read my posts over the years and know my story/stories well. I live in Arizona and had been going to the meetups of the local Arizona ExMo group (meets in Mesa/Gilbert). Some of you on here may know the story but I would like to share my side of it.
For about two years I had been going to all of the Ex Mo socials I enjoyed sharing my story of how it was teenage social pressures that drew me into Mormonism.
I also have ASPERGERS SYNDROM as many of you know.
I also enjoy talking about Sex in various contexts. It is only because I enjoy human sexuality/ and am a curious person (much like ex mormon blogger Laci Green). I thought that I was always carefull to explain where I was coming from and what my condition was and why I said and asked some of the things that I did. If anyone said or gave a non veriable impression that they were uncomfortable, I apologized/stopped/and changed the subject. Apparantly that was not good enough for several women.
On one occasion I went on a date with an Ex Mo girl close to my age for my Birthday. She was aware of what was going on with me and I enjoyed talking to her. We ended up kissing, and more and more I just wanted to connect with her (not necessarly romantically) and it helped me to be able to talk with her. I could tell on several occasions that I was not coming accross well and what I was doing could be percieved as Stalking. Eventually I had no other choice but to stop digging myself into a whole with her in trying to make it right and apologized to her and her father and ceases contact with her. It latter came back to me that she was tramatized and felt unsafe about it. I understood exactly why she felt that way and felt teriable about it. But have not tried to contact her since.
THE SHOCK:
I kept going to the Arizona Ex Mo Socials pretty regularly for about another year, I met a guy who seemed to understand me pretty well. About two months ago I asked him if he would add me to the Ex Mo board on face book. He said that he would have to ask some people on there if they would be ok with it. He got back to me and it turned out that SEVERAL women who had met me stopped going because of questions I would ask them and did not feel safe around me. Some even felt that I might be a SEXUAL PREDATOR! The gentle man went to bat for me and assured me that I was not a predator or dangerous I made a statment on the board that I was sorry never meant for people to feel that way and would no longer attend.
HERE IS THE FRUSTRATION:
Even after this guy assured the women that I was not dangerous, had Asperger's Syndrome, and felt bad about what I did, Most of those women said they would be upset/uncomfortable having me at the socials. There are maybe two or three women who I think I may have offended but the others I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THEY EVEN ARE OR WHAT I SAID. I was also told that a lot of these individuals were just jumping on the band wagon and had even stopped talking to the guy who defended me. So therefore I have been told by a couple of people on my side that it is best for me to not go to these meetings anymore because even after all of this it would still upset a lot of these women (who are a mystery to me), out of respect for the men who defended me and the woman who I had gone on the date with, I am no longer going to go, at least for a long time.
I am now going to be a lot more reliante on this board for support If THAT IS OK with everyone. A lot of you have been very supportive of me and my situation for years now. I now need your help more than ever. I would just at first like to hear anyone's thoughts on this. Thanks.

in social situations. It's generally considered rude and insensitive to discuss these topics unless everyone present has clearly agreed they like the idea.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. Sometimes exmos overdo in these two areas because they've been stifled for harshly from their mormon experiences.

It's rough when you try your best to get along and it's still not good enough for people.

Of course it's okay if you are reliant on the board. That's what we are here for.

My advice to you is to not discuss sex *at all* in social situations. I agree with Cheryl that there are several topics that are often best avoided: sex, politics, and money. I
also feel that you would benefit from some social skills training. A physician, counselor, or autism spectrum advocacy group could help you with that.

People with Asperger's CAN learn to control talking about certain unacceptable [in public] topics. Believe me, I know. If you have someone who helps you [caretaker???? relative??] learn these things, please talk to them about learning to control discussing certain private personal things.

Most people are VERY uncomfortable discussing sex in public with people they barely know.

I agree with Cheryl and others that you should avoid discussions about politics, sex, or money. Don't use your Asperger's as an excuse to do or say things that offend or make others uncomfortable.

There are counselors that can help you learn to act in a way that is safe to others.

As for the women, if you think about it ganging up on a person and believing what you are told unconditionally is what people in the church are taught. How many times has someone (including me) been attacked for something you did not do and everyone else follows blindly. One or two may have been uncomfortable but instead of letting you know on a one on one basis they grouped together and attacked.

Why not attend with the nice gentleman and talk about how the learned behavior of following blindly that needs to be changed as an exmo. It might bring up a good conversation. But don't attack the ones who were offended and don't bring up the sex comments. Just talk about the behavior of ganging up without first hand knowledge.

One thing that is hard is that the main reason that I joined Mormonism is because a core group of Mormons were and still are the most accepting of me. But when I saw through it I looked for other ex mos for support. Now this happens.

I'm a woman and an aspie myself. At work I usually only associate with men. We love to talk dirty and have a lot of sexual innuendo talk. they love it and initiate a lot of sex talk. It is the highlight of my day.

I usually am not the initiator of sex talk, other people are. It is just how I play it safe so they don't think I'm any weirder.

I don't think I could ever have sex myself, I have never had a boyfriend.

I would suggest play it safer with sex talk until a comfort level has been achieved amongst the group members or the individual you are dating.

As an aspie of course I never fit in with the Mormon church. but it has nothing to do with me leaving the church as I 'm pretty opened minded and did my own research and found out the lies.

According to the latest DSM, Asperger's doesn't even exist. Not to de-legitimize your illness, but in 5-10 years a large swath of people are not even going to know what you're talking about.

Second, it doesn't excuse your behavior. Saying "I have Asperger's" is on par with saying "I have Tourrettes" when you swear at a wedding. You can control it. You can talk to a confidante / close friend (or heck, even people on this board) and have them coach you on proper social interaction. Ultimately, remember that the women are at the socials for their own reasons -- their happiness and comfort, to them, comes before yours. Rather than discarding their concerns, make a solid effort to become more socially stable. Your competency posting here leads me to believe that you're probably capable of managing social situations just fine with some practice.

Nt



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2013 12:05PM by homoerectus.

Alpiner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the latest DSM, Asperger's doesn't
> even exist. Not to de-legitimize your illness, but
> in 5-10 years a large swath of people are not even
> going to know what you're talking about.
>
> Second, it doesn't excuse your behavior. Saying "I
> have Asperger's" is on par with saying "I have
> Tourrettes" when you swear at a wedding. You can
> control it. You can talk to a confidante / close
> friend (or heck, even people on this board) and
> have them coach you on proper social interaction.
> Ultimately, remember that the women are at the
> socials for their own reasons -- their happiness
> and comfort, to them, comes before yours. Rather
> than discarding their concerns, make a solid
> effort to become more socially stable. Your
> competency posting here leads me to believe that
> you're probably capable of managing social
> situations just fine with some practice.

Yes but in the rest of the world, DSM has no standing.

You may be encountering some stigma toward people with disabilities.

It is all well and good for people to say they accept a person with a psychological handicap UNTIL they do something that is perceived as socially unacceptable.

Instead of responding with compassion, people can respond with fear even when they know about the disability.

I suggest you use this experience to learn how to be more appropriate in social situations and just move on. There are many, many opportunities to interact with people who have an interest you share.

The bond of formerly belonging to a certain relationship is actually a very thin bond because it is based on the past. Far healthier for you is to focus on your own interests and join a group that is doing something you love.

The most rewarding of these are the creative outlets (as opposed to collecting thimbles, for example). Like sculpting, making pottery, painting, refinishing furniture, fixing things up and selling them on eBay, etc.

If you don't have hobbies or interests developed, then read the book "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron --it's a workbook-- and start nurturing your creative side.

Best

Anagrammy

I understand that this is difficult for you. I have a younger brother with Asperger's and I know it isn't easy. He has also had trouble with social cues at times. He has a hard time figuring out personal space.

It does sound like you could really benefit from some social skills counseling. I agree with the others that it is a bad idea to discuss sex in a social setting. It may be a topic you are comfortable with, but it doesn't mean that those women were comfortable with it. And you may feel that you stopped talking about it as soon as you sensed they weren't okay with the topic. Obviously, it wasn't enough. Please understand that for an exmo woman, ANY man asking her about sex may feel incredibly invasive. We sit through years of interviews where bishops probe into our sexuality, and we're not allowed to protest. So it is hard for some of us to feel that we can shut down the conversation when a man asks us about sex. It's easy to see how those women became wary of you. If a man was asking me about sex in a casual setting, and I found out he had been asking others about it too, I might wonder if he was a sexual predator feeling out victims. And I certainly wouldn't want to be around him anymore, especially not in a group that was helping me recover from TSCC.

You can't change how others will react to you, but you can change your approach. It isn't just a social skill, it's the best way to protect yourself from future situations like this.

To present another side of the story, tombs1, I'm the husband of one of the women you repeatedly asked about sex ... while I was sitting next to her ... even after we asked you to stop. The next event we came to, the situation repeated itself.

It made both of us very uncomfortable. While I understand that you might have difficulty with social cues, your questioning came across as overly aggressive and disrespectful.

I watched you offend way too many women, many of whom never came back. All the other regular attendees would say the same. You had plenty of learning opportunities, but kept doing the same thing. The girl you talk about in your sob story tried to help you understand for months and you abused that and lost her trust. On top of the awkward sexual conversation you love so much, I heard you more than once replaying your violent revenge fantasies against the mormon people/church. Your very aggressive nature when telling these things was unnerving.

The gentleman who 'went to bat' for you wasn't near as aware of your history as the rest of the regular attendees, since he hadn't been to many events. But he was kind enough to approach you when noone else wanted to for various reasons. You were specifically removed from the arizona exmo fb group because of your actions. You were also removed from other mormon related groups because of your actions.

I can't believe you're trying to say that you have no idea what you said to offend people. Like I said, you've had plenty of learning opportunity in the group. You've had people explain it to you. And you're still claiming ignorance. Bullshit.

I meant to reply to tombs, not Moroni. Oops.

It means that you don't learn socially acceptable behavior in quite the same way that others do. You have the same ability to control yourself that anyone else has. No one can fault you for not understanding, initially, that sex talk was inappropriate, but now that it's been pointed out to you, you are perfectly capable of finding other topics to discuss in social settings.

YOu are welcome here Tombs1! I realise it all must be very difficult for you, but keep coming here and learning and healing, it is why we are all here!

Haven't been interested in attending any of the ex mo meetups but apparently I'm missing out!

Well tombs1, I suffer with the same issues. i am an aspie and have been told that what i say and want to know is not appropriate. EVEN ON THIS BOARD.

I have never attended an ex mo meeting as i turned to this board to fill the function of social interaction that the mormon church had played in my life.

I learnt that all groups have their haters, their liars and posters who simply talk crap.

find a local group that works for you. i have found that being self consumed in this world is the only way.

You dont sound aspie?

Whoops

Okay. I am on the autism spectrum and a woman and a sexual assault and rape survivor. I have zero to no sympathy right now. The OP made women feel uncomfortable by asking them sexually invasive questions even after being asked to stop. This is sexual harassment. It is not okay. You do not get to victimize women and then play the victim.

I dont know who this guy is, I have never met him, but if I knew he or someone like him was going to be at an event or in a community I was interested in, I would bail the hell out and not go or participate. Just reading the post made my skin crawl and then seeing posts by other people he has inflicted himself on confirms it.

I dont wanna hear anyone accusing me of ableism here as I said, I have multiple disabilities including autism and I have yet to sexually harass someone and I sure as shit would never use my disabilities as an excuse for hurting someone. Sexual harassment isn't a social oopsie like using the wrong fork at dinner, it destroys lives.

To the OP, go seek mental health treatment and stay the hell away from women.

To everyone else in the thread especially women, I highly recommend the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. It's a fantastic book about trusting your gut about situations that unnerve you and helps to empower you to say No to situations you feel uncomfortable in.

You don't sound Aspie?

Okay? I wasn't aware my doctor posted here.

Anyway, I dont have Asperger's, I have Autism. I'm "high functioning" even though high and low functioning isn't like some scale of how acceptable you are to neurotypical people, it just depends on when or if you started speaking. I started speaking early so high-functioning autism it was.

And sorry not sorry, not going to accept a disability as a free pass for harassing women.

First, as far as clinical psychology goes, Asperger's no longer exists:
http://www.autism.com/index.php/news_dsmV
Now, it's all just autism-spectrum disorders.

Second, PaulHutchison, where do you get off telling people they 'don't sound Aspie?' wTF? Plenty of folks with high-functioning autism are indistinguishable from those without autism on a message board, because they can review precisely what they're saying and moderate themselves before clicking 'Post.'

Alpiner, the DSM V is not considered the be-all and end-all of pschiatric diagnostic material. Most of the world goes by another manual, which still recognizes Asperger's Syndrome. Just because a manual doesn't have it printed anymore doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I was diagnosed in the 90s.

I do agree with the view that a lot of people are getting diagnosed just for the sake of being diagnosed, rather than having any real need. When I was growing up, I needed help and I got it because I had a diagnosis. But even now, with all the 'programs', there's very little help because everyone expects 'Rain Man' or the 'Rocking Figure', as I call it.

Tombs1, I agree with everyone else that you cannot use Asperger's as an excuse. There are forums where you can discuss such things in excess all you like, but a support group/social group that is not oriented around that is not a good idea. Myself, the one thing I've kept from my Mormon upbringing is my distaste in openly discussing sex. Your story has simply affirmed my preference to view that as something that's really only between partners, and should not be a 'public discussion'.

Tombs1, it sounds like you were making people uncomfortable and were asked many times to stop.

As a therapist for people on the autism spectrum and with other disabilities, I have to say that you cannot use your aspergers as an excuse. You need to get yourself some social skills training. You also should apologize the women you continued to ask personally questions about their sex lives.

Good luck.

Thank you everyone for your help here. To the two AZ ex Mos on here, will you please accept my apology. While I do not remember everything on here the same way you do I have no doubt that your side of the story has Meritt. I am always working on myself the best that I can and as I know, I will be staying away from the group out of respect for everyone involved. Please know that I am not a sexual predator. Thank you.