Forgot that I wasn't supposed to say "f*ck" in the subject line.

I was just seeing this bit in the SLTrib:

"And, unlike other organizations that can change their policies and even their doctrines, our policies are determined by the truths God has declared to be unchangeable," Oaks said.


Many of us here on RfM have seen them change every damn doctrine on their books just in our lifetimes.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56965652-78/god-lds-marriage-church.html.csp

Oaks, from what I've seen, has no respect for anyone. He feels he's superior and his opinion MUST be taken as the only one. All else must be disregarded or you are an idiot. Either you fall in line with what he tells you is reality, or you are stupid. He's one of the apostles I can't stand.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLTrib:
>
> "And, unlike other organizations that can change
> their policies and even their doctrines, our
> policies are determined by the truths God has
> declared to be unchangeable," Oaks said.
>
>
> Many of us here on RfM have seen them change every
> damn doctrine on their books just in our
> lifetimes.

That is what is so frustrating with these f*&king assholes. They are so insulated that you can never question them. You can never call them to account for their bullshit. They can just stand up at that pulpit and make deceptive, deceitful statements and their is no way to make them support their mendacity. There is no way to debate them, they rarely accept invitations to be interviewed and meetings are behind closed doors. They are handled by PR and carefully controlled photo-ops. The cult has be been so fluid in their policies and doctrines that it would make one nauseous. B^%stards.

Back to baseball and football. Bucks 2 Cards 0.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2013 06:10PM by No Mo.

That's because they know that if you call them on their BS, your family and friends will do the dirty work for them.

"our policies are determined by the truths God has declared to be unchangeable,"

Ah, so that explains all the "mistakes" they've made.

Lately I've noticed a "God has allowed" trend. God is still perfect, and it's the humans that make mistakes, not God.... but we're still supposed to follow the humans without question.

Not only does mormon doctrine change over the years, but so do the tactics of the leaders and apologists as they get caught in their lies.

I believe Oaks thinks we are HUGE IDIOTS. To me Oaks is one who thinks that because of his positions of prestige (lawyer, GE) that he has the right, the Lard-given right to instruct us and we should bow down in front of him with obedience and thankfulness because we do not have the capability of thinking for ourselves. We are not among the elite like he is.

He is clever with words---such as in his statement that "...our [the LDS Church] policies are determined by the truths God has declared to be unchangeable." Notice he does not claim that the church has followed this policy, only that the policies are DETERMINED by those truths from God.

Anyway, this is my take.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2013 06:14PM by presleynfactsrock.

Met Oaks once on the mission. Was excited to meet one of the postholes of The Lord... But was thoroughly underwhelmed and a bit put off. He was very impersonal and uninterested in anyone who came to shake hands. Had similar experiences with Hales, Nelson, R Dellenbach (now emeritus 70), and Rasband, and probably some others from the hierarchy. 1st step to questioning, so in retrospect I should be glad they were obnoxious jerks.

The only apostle I've met personally is Perry, & he absolutely seemed no different than the old men who were in my old ward. Just a regular old guy, nothing special. He would have fit right in with my grandfather's high priest group. (I was in the same ward as my grandparents the entire time I was active.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2013 08:04PM by Tristan.

I met Hinckley and Hales at BYU Hawaii and Bednar in Michigan. Arrogant pious frauds all of them.

Link to Oaks speaking. Awful, just awful. May you survive watching this:

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/watch/2013/10?lang=eng&vid=2724154478001&cid=5

I need to vomit, I'll just take a dose of ipecac and get it over with. UGH!!!

I swear I could only watch about 1 minute of this rubbish.

This guy is a phony fraud.

That an asshole

>"...our policies are determined by the truths God has declared to be unchangeable," Oaks said.

I was able to talk for over an hour a couple of years ago at an exmormon meeting about all the changes in policies, doctrines and practices.

See also the excellent book "This Is My Doctrine" by Charles Harrell for a thorough analysis of how Mormon doctrine has indeed changed and evolved. My review is at

http://packham.n4m.org/doctrine.htm

Does anyone have a quote from the Oaks speech in which he talks about sexual purity?

I'm looking for the creepiest section, but can't stomach watching the whole thing again.

Well, in a round about way, at least he admits they have *no* doctrine, only policies.

Good point! Just like polygamy and blacks and the priesthood were only "policies" and "practices" that could be changed later.

My older sister used to call me a "stupid idiot." Maybe he was talking to STUPID idiots.

Oaks wasn't even entirely right on the trial in Carthage! Truth is that the trial against those accused of killing JS failed in large part because BY and others did no cooperate with the prosecution.

Is Oaks as mean as he looks?

Kinda looks mean, don't he? But I think that he would look good as a Muppet. I suddenly know a man who makes Muppets. I should find out how much it costs. Anyone want in?

A one word description: arrogant.

Longer excerpt from Salt Lake Tribune article:

On the second and final day of the LDS Church’s 183rd Semiannual General Conference, apostle Dallin H. Oaks bemoaned America’s dropping birthrates, later marriages and rising incidence of cohabitation as evidence of “political and social pressures for legal and policy changes to establish behaviors contrary to God’s decrees about sexual morality and the eternal nature and purposes of marriage and child-bearing.”

These pressures “have already permitted same-gender marriages in various states and nations,” Oaks told 20,000 Mormons gathered in the Conference Center in downtown Salt Lake City and millions more watching worldwide via telecasts and the Internet. “Other pressures would confuse gender or homogenize those differences between men and women that are essential to accomplish God’s great plan of happiness.”

An LDS eternal perspective does not allow Mormons “to condone such behaviors or to find justification in the laws that permit them,” said the apostle, a former Utah Supreme Court justice. “And, unlike other organizations that can change their policies and even their doctrines, our policies are determined by the truths God has declared to be unchangeable.” …

He just told Mormons to shun the likes of me (childless, cohabiting with my partner of 7 yrs)

Everything these idiots say just confirms the untruth of Mormonism--and not even from the factual sense, as in, history of America or even history of the church, itself; but everything they say confirms the untruth of the religious aspect.

With all of the complexity of society, the vast numbers of people: multiple billions, the profound difficulties in managing the environment for so many humans and other living creatures, right down to the mounting need to manage the risks to the processes creating the very air we breathe, Mormon God cares only that we legally marry young and have babies? What a narrow-minded jerk Mormon God is.

With all of the astounding achievements happening in the world, for example, global abject poverty has been reduced to the lowest level in history, warfare--though present--so far in this century, is lower than the two preceding centuries, there is greater equality and freedom for more of the world's citizens then ever before; and yet, the challenges we face are daunting. The role of religion is to develop the spiritual side of the people: their character, their happiness, their compassion, their courage. Instead, we're supposed to be convinced God is some obsessive-compulsive, who, despite the myriad arenas demanding input from the bearer of infinite potential, concerns himself solely, and single-mindedly, with who's getting married and having plenty o' babies. Basically, this all mighty God spends his days watching porn and whacking off, or fiddling while Rome burns.

What a poor excuse for a religious leader our man Oakes is. And what a poor excuse for a religion.

The fact is this thinking is obsolete and the reality is this guy will, fortunately, be dead shortly.

These ignorant quotes will remain.

But in future he will be merely "speaking as a man." Fickle Mormon God, plagued through the eternities with ADHD, will have moved on to something else.

to be abused by a bunch of ridiculous old men pretending to speak for a god who obviously doesn't exist?

Of course they have never changed their policies. Every mormon believes that. They also believe in Nephites and Lamanites, literal Adam and Eve living in Missouri, and magical rocks that can translate ancient languages engraved on magical plates.

The last phrase is actually internally consistent, unlike the other two phrases. Nephites and Lamanites refer to actual people who actually lived who were supposedly related to other actual people. We've got the DNA of one set of actual people, no DNA connects those people with the DNA of the descendants of the Nephites and Laminites in question. Literal Adam and Eve? Well, their descendants are actual us; and we trace our own ancestry to hominid creatures than never formed a singularity: one male, one female. Whoever Adam and Eve may have been, and whoever their descendants are, they ain't us--or at least, all of us. Lesson learned: don't mix the real with the fake, Mr. God.

The last phrase though, pure fake, so it works. Why wouldn't magical rocks translate a magical language engraved on magical plates? That's called fiction writing, and it happens every day. Do wanna scholarship to Hogwarts?

Oaks said, "And, unlike other organizations that can change their policies and even their doctrines, our policies are determined by the truths God has declared to be unchangeable."

This statement is clever, and I'm sure Oaks is aware of its literal meaning contrasted with the meaning many listeners will take from it. Interpreted strictly, the statement does not mean that LDS church "policies" are unchangeable. Rather, it means at least some "truths God has declared" are unchangeable.

Oaks is engaging in verbal "sleight of hand." His statement is consistent with saying, "Our changeable policies are determined by God-declared unchangeable truths, while other organizations' changeable policies/doctrines are not based on those truths."

"God-declared unchangeable truths?"

It was necessary for me to stand worthy in a holy Temple and surround an altar while I repeatedly pantomimed my death. Those were vital unchangeable truths declared by the God of Heaven as essential for my exaltation. And the same pantomimes were quintessential to fully enact the ‘True Order of Prayer.’

Now according to the 15 Profits none of it is necessary for my exaltation! And the unchangeable ‘True Order of Prayer’ has now been changed.

Does Oaks think I can’t put two and two together?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2013 12:12AM by jiminycricket.