Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: ConcernedCitizen ( )
Date: October 06, 2013 09:09PM

Question? How can we cash in on a gravy train like this?

...oh yeah, on a Lufthansa a Church "stipend"?

Alma the Aviator Saves Hostages, Leaping over Tall Estates on a Single Modest-Stipend
Thursday, Jan 17, 2013, at 08:42 AM
Original Author(s): David Twede
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF -Guid- ↑
Many New Order Mormons (NOMs) and some traditional members feel Apostle Dieter Uchtdorf is the most honest, humble and interesting Apostle in the LDS church. On 13 January, 2013, Elder Dieter gave a church education devotional.

At around 33 minutes into the broadcast, Dieter says the following:

"Remember that in this age of information there are many who create doubt about anything and everything at anytime and everyplace. You will find even those who still claim that they have evidence that the earth is flat. That the moon is a hologram. It looks like it a little bit. And that certain movie stars are really aliens from another planet. And it is always good to keep in mind just because something is printed on paper, appears on the internet, is frequently repeated or has a powerful group of followers doesn't make it true."

True, how true. This may include the opening paragraph of Dieter's biography at LDS.ORG.

On December 17, 1973, the president of Lufthansa German Airlines received alarming news. Five terrorists had hijacked a Lufthansa 737 jet in Rome, Italy, and were making their way to Athens, Greece, with hostages on board. In an instant, Lufthansa's president ordered into the air his chief pilot for the 737 fleet. Thirty-three-year-old Dieter F. Uchtdorf was to take a small group of emergency personnel and follow the hijacked plane wherever the guerrillas took it. In every setting possible he was to negotiate for the release of the plane, the pilots, and the hostages. Then, when all of this had been accomplished, he was to fly the hijacked 737 back to headquarters in Frankfurt.

With fortunately no more bloodshed, this mission, like so many others he had been on personally and professionally, was successfully accomplished.


From this bio, (apparently penned by Jeffrey Holland See we learn that Dieter flew a small group of emergency personnel to follow the hostages in a hijacked 737. His company president ordered Dieter "to negotiate for the release of the plane, the pilots and the hostages." He was told after having accomplished this, he should fly the recovered aircraft back to Frankfurt headquarters, which apparently happened without bloodshed. Reading the bio, it would seem Uchtdorf was at the center of negotiating, rescuing, apprehending and recovering the hijacked hostages and plane. That's major hero action.

Uchtdorf gave the church permission to relate a story that apparently isn't corroborated in other accounts of the hostage event. See the references & sources of this Wikipedia article to get the facts (see Still some ask, is Dieter F. Uchtdorf pulling a Paul H. Dunn? Is he as trustworthy as some believed?

What I have uncovered about him may cause more concern. Not only about the junior Apostle, but about some of what the LDS church is doing related to him in real estate dealings. This is preliminary, but so far, what I've found is alarming.

Apparently, the LDS church is buying lots of land in Utah resort and vacation towns. Some of these are in highly prestigious gated residential communities. One is the Red Ledges development (See Homes (estates & mansions) here start at half-million and move up quickly into the several million. LDS inc seemingly owns three of the larger (undeveloped) plots (lot 77, lot 99 & lot 184).1

These LDS owned lots are small enough not to serve for church lots, but large enough to place a nice sized estate upon. Why did LDS inc purchased residential lots in a gated elite community?

The reason they purchased home lots could be, perhaps, tied to Dieter F Uchtdorf. He received the very first (Lot 1) finished town home late last summer (See

He bought it for $782,000, and it is a tenth the size (at 0.063 acres) of some lots owned by LDS inc in the same development.

Uchtdorf's home is not his principal residence. That's in the upper-crust North Salt Lake area at 399 Aerie Circle. This primary residence is worth $778,000, and the taxes for it are mailed to the Church's offices at 47 East South Temple St in SLC.

What we see is, Hero Dieter owns two homes worth three-quarters of a million each. Hero Dieter, who quit his aviator position at Lufthansa in 1996 hasn't worked a job in 16 years, but bought two homes with combine worth today of $1.5M. The latest, last year, in the development where the LDS church already bought homestead plots bigger than Dieters.

This is just preliminary, and already I have found other interesting bits which I will address in future blogs. But I'd like to point out that for supposedly a modest stipend, the junior apostle is doing very well. When Uchtdorf tells his religious student audience to beware of critics who are just like flat-earthers and alien watchers (because the internet isn't very true), he's like Alma telling Korihor that his denial of Christ is crazy talk. Alma, we're told, worked for his living without even a modest stipend to obtain fancy estates in high-society resort developments. Readers contrasting Alma the honest with Korihor the agitator feel they can trust Alma.

Dieter asks in the same 13 Jan CES talk:

"How can we know that this truth is different from any other? How can we trust this truth? The invitation to trust the lord does not relieve us from responsibility to know for ourselves."

He assures his listeners that truth is found in the whispering of the spirit which only comes from living the gospel. He encourages them to accept an assumption about how we source truth (through feelings). And goes on to end with this:

"I add my witness as an apostle of the Lord that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God. I know this with all my heart and mind. I know this by the witness and power of the Holy Ghost."

Can he provide any more evidence of these claims than flat-earthers or moon-hologramers do of theirs? Can we trust the hero, mansions-owning pilot? He's no humble-living Alma. He's Dunn.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: upsidedown ( )
Date: October 06, 2013 10:55PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Chloe ( )
Date: October 06, 2013 11:02PM

So, it looks like the church pays the property taxes for its apostles too.

Your tithes at work!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lori C ( )
Date: October 07, 2013 12:00AM

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Don Bagley ( )
Date: October 07, 2013 12:33AM

I've never known a royalty fan whom I respected, and that includes family. The Mormon worship of Mormon celebrity is a clear indication of intellectual dishonesty. Are we to have purebred bloodlines like dogs?

The most corrupt states are those that have ruling families. The LDS Rocky Mountain Empire is run by a group of related people, just like any mob. Forget about doctrine; it's just a distraction. Think about who benefits from the system.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dasboot ( )
Date: October 07, 2013 02:01AM

It pissed me off this summer I played golf at red ledges and the caddie said that was uctdorfs crib. I saw that house and that was the final straw for me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ConcernedCitizen ( )
Date: October 07, 2013 10:03AM

...a foto of the family's summer home.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Leah ( )
Date: October 07, 2013 01:26PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: kimball ( )
Date: October 07, 2013 11:52AM

ConcernedCitizen Wrote:
> Can he provide any more evidence of these claims
> than flat-earthers or moon-hologramers do of
> theirs?

Bingo. We're done. You can all go home now.

Uchtdorf is critical of other people's beliefs that can't be substantiated by science and evidence, and yet expects everyone to be accepting of his. He can go fuck himself.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: brothernotofjared ( )
Date: October 07, 2013 01:55PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In

Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **    **  **    **   ******   ********   **     ** 
 ***   **  **   **   **    **  **     **  ***   *** 
 ****  **  **  **    **        **     **  **** **** 
 ** ** **  *****     **        ********   ** *** ** 
 **  ****  **  **    **        **         **     ** 
 **   ***  **   **   **    **  **         **     ** 
 **    **  **    **   ******   **         **     **