My father exemplifies this problem. He smokes, he chews tobacco, and I'm fairly certain he occasionally drinks when he thinks no one sees him...

...but then he lies about it. Last time he came to town, he claimed he hadn't chewed in a year. Later on he went to a bar with my sisters to play pool, and my brother-in-law caught him with chew in his mouth. He asked "is that chew?" to which my father's reply was "no." Then when my brother-in-law walked away, he saw my father furtively scraping the chew out of his mouth and throwing it away, hoping no one would see him.

I suppose it's possible it was that beef-jerky chew substitute people use to quit, but then why not just say that? And even if that's the case, it's a smaller part of a much larger pattern of behaving one way and then lying about it to look "righteous".

How has such an intelligent and more-or-less good person never learned the most basic lesson of integrity?

I just want to spell it out for him directly. The person with faults and weaknesses who then admits they have them, or even embraces them, is light-years ahead of the person who engages in all the same vices and then tries to portray an image of cleanliness and perfection. It's hypocrisy at its finest.

I get that he has a right to privacy and doesn't need to broadcast these things to the world. That's fine, that's his business, he doesn't need to reveal things about himself he'd prefer were secret. But then shut the **** up about it. Stop making up elaborate stories to make yourself sound better than you really are. If you don't think the behavior is that bad, then stop fussing over it, if you do, change it. But stop pretending to be someone you are clearly not.

I just wish he realized he's behaving worse to look better.

The most recent realization for me was that he completely lied about where he met my step-mom. My mom was under the impression that he'd been introduced to my step-mom through a friend that went to church with her, because that's what he apparently told everybody....I've known for several years now he met her at a titty-bar.

He just seems to be an amped up version of classic Mormon hypocrisy. As someone said in another thread, it doesn't matter what's going on on the inside. All that matters is how it appears. And that is just unbelievably pathetic.


Here's the worst part: None of us would have minded. None of us are Mormon, so the only reason we'd be unhappy about him chewing tobacco is for his own health. We wouldn't judge him for it, or look down on him for it. In fact, we'd have so much MORE respect for him if he were the kind of person who just admitted who he was, even if he maintained the rest of his faults.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2013 11:36PM by doubtisavirtue.

Absolutely right.

Abraham Lincoln said,

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

Mormonism is a cowbird of religion and will eventually fail, having nothing pure, wholesome or of good report at its core.


Anagrammy

I like how you said that people who admit their faults are way ahead of the Mormons. My exmo brother and I are the only ones in our family who are honest about our shortcomings (many of which are genetic, by the way). We are also the only two who live without foolish drama and unexplained actions. All the TBMs are floaters drifting in a sea of lies.

It's funny that Jeff and I have the most conservative families among all our siblings. Yet we are liberal thinkers. Go figure.

Okay, so I did a tiny more digging, and apparently the story of how he met my step-mom may be a little more complex than that. So both sides of that particular story may be true.

It doesn't change the fact that how he thinks he's supposed to *appear* to be trumps who he actually is, and this leads to an endless stream of lies.

It's to the point where I'm not certain he's even sincere in most of his claimed values. The things he says about his "libertarian" political views often sound more about image than about real convictions. My sisters have even said to me they're not even sure he really has a problem with gay marriage. But he's *supposed* to, so that's what he argues for.

Because the world hates Mormons because of all of the lies people spread, so everyone has to make sure that they present the perfect picture of Mormonism, even if it's absolutely fake, so that the rest of the world knows that Mormons really are God's chosen.

It's kind of like how taking a direct quote from sacrament meeting's faith promoting speaker and sharing it with a no-mo audience who doesn't get it and thinks that Mormons are weird: that's not allowed because it makes the church look bad.

Because they are lazy. It's so much easier to appear good than actually be good. It's easier to act like a person of character than develop real character. It's simpler to dress and talk rich than actually earn a fortune. It's easier to copy people of grace and righteousness than develop the character traits true grace and righteousness spring from. Anyone can be good long enough to fool those who need to be fooled. Actually being good takes too much effort for some people. They want the frosting without having to bake the cake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2013 01:05AM by CA girl.

It's not about how things ARE. It's how they appear to be.

My parents have spent their lives working overtime in order to appear to be the best of the best in the circles of mormonism.

How has this worked out for them? Not so good.

There are quite a few people who still think they are 'all that'. However, the people who really matter (their kids) know they are a mental and emotional train wreck with a very fake spiritual life. Their family is a broken down mess that even the very best of therapists couldn't mend.

It's a sad sad ending for two people who gave their life, time, children, money, future, and all they had or will ever have to the mormon church. The church has abandoned them in their old age. Their own children don't know them. Their grandchildren don't even know their names.

You all have good answers. I thought of one that hasn't been mentioned.

I think people (Mormons included!) who fake what they think "goodness" should look like, often do so because deep down, they harbor self-loathing. They believe they are "bad" by some wacky internalized definition and they want/need to do whatever they can think of to keep that a deep dark secret because it pains them so much.

Of course, as you all say, the charade only makes them look worse, not better. They're in hell.

that since Mormonism both creates the wacky internalized definition of "goodness" and encourages the charade, Mormonism creates and perpetuates the hell for Mormons.

Thanks, Mormonism. Just what the world needs.

The church is an empty shell. Image over substance has always been the rule. I was active in the church in its supposed "golden age" -- 50'S-60's -- and even then it was more about how you looked than how you behaved. One of my favorites -- "If you are at a party where they are serving drinks, always have 7-Up in a bottle so no one will think you are drinking." Went to BYU and was struck at the time and expense they invested in keeping everything beautiful. Landscaping was much more important that what went on in the classroom.

The church places the importance on the exterior because it is so much easier to judge.

But here is the best example - a personal one.

My late hubby and I had two sons. (also two daughters) The older son was preppy personified. Always looked good and "proper". Younger son had sort of "grunge" look. Long hair (which cost him the Teachers Quorum Presidency), baggy shirts and jeans and army boots. Older son kept me up nights with worry. Younger son was a dream. Hubby was talking with the bishop once and expressed our concern that older son might be using drugs. Bishop's response? -- "But he is always so well groomed!!" Like, how could a well-groomed teen be using drugs?

It's ALL ABOUT THE IMAGE.

Don't I know it. Image is everything to them.

My brother was a bit of a pothead during our teens. I think he may have gone on to do harder stuff at some point, not sure. I do know, however, that he was also dealing pot. And that he didn't stop smoking until a few WEEKS before heading out to the MTC to start his mission.

When he was being interviewed for his worthiness to go on a mission? My dad apparently explicitly directed him to lie about the marijuana. It boggles my mind that this is spiritual to them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2013 02:23AM by doubtisavirtue.

It's a corporation trying to make money. Everything they do is spin, damage control and ensuring members present a good image.

Mormons live in a world where righteousness is of primary importance but how you are doing can only be judged by outward appearances and actions in comparison to others.

Fortunately there is always someone who isn't doing quite as well as you which fosters a feeling of superiority. (Good thing there are ex-Mormons and non-Mormons around.)

Unfortunately there is always someone who (at least outwardly) seems to be doing it all better than you. That creates a lot of anxiety and feelings of inferiority.

They can't win. There is no safe place to be yourself because just as you are watching others you know they are watching you.

The Mormon bubble can be a scary place.