I wish I could say this blew my mind, but it didn't. I am not at all surprised, just sad I guess. Poor girl.

http://newyorkerinutah.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/another-byu-modesty-note-the-toxicity-of-shame-in-lds-culture/

When I see bare shoulders I want to whip it and wank right in public.

Where was her burka??

Someone had a great quote once: "Men put women on a pedestal so they look up their skirt."

whoa chicken! Don't do that! What you should do is approach the offending woman describe in detail how her bare shoulders cause your priesthood parts to swell with the spirit of contention, and give her the opportunity to repent. It's important when talking to her that you describe in detail the nature of your impure thoughts toward her. Include objective information such as length, and girth. if she seems confused, or put off by this and as the spirit directs, you can at this point expose your priesthood, and admonish her through the authority of Jesus to hold firm to the rod. This is and always will be the true order of the priesthood.
In the name of Jesus Christ amen.

If anyone doubts the truthfulness of this, please doubt those doubts.

You know what bothered me the most about her blog post? This line: "the fact that breasts have no sexual function." Obviously this girl has no sexual experience. The poor little fool.

uh, she's right. Breasts are not genitalia. Neither are hands or tongues - see where I'm going with this?

On more of a side note, I lived for a while someplace where female toplessness was the norm. No such thing as "boob" guys in that culture... turns out breasts are glorious for approximately two years after puberty, then the long descent...

Wow, the shirt in question is SOOOO scandalous. What is she, a hooker?? *eye roll*

God, BYU culture is the worst... sometimes, I wish I would have gone to BYU, because I'm pretty sure it would have caused me to leave the church. That could have shaved off about 7 more years of TBM'ism!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2013 12:40PM by queenb.

What if the guy looking at the essayist simply thought she is pretty, appers to be intelligent/cultured/some aspect of his feminine ideal, and nothing more than that? He was sitting a table away. Perhaps he was enchanted by her eyes, her hair, or maybe even her coursework.

Perhaps he was trying to work up the courage to go to her and politely introduce himself, and nothing more.

Over-reaction on everybody's part.

P.S. Is that poor handwriting and grammar representative of the BYU student body? THAT is what I find offensive!

I doubt that very much, as was evidenced by his embarrassment when she gave him the "look".

"What if the guy looking at the essayist simply thought she is pretty, appers to be intelligent/cultured/some aspect of his feminine ideal, and nothing more than that? He was sitting a table away. Perhaps he was enchanted by her eyes, her hair, or maybe even her coursework."

This is how -normal- people outside of Mormonism's bubble act and try to attract the opposite sex. She makes it look like he was lustfully leering at her, but he could have been just admiring her all-around beauty. I'm a thinking at BYU, just admiring someone's all-around beauty is always construed as leering, since the girls are really waiting to be setup with their RM/future husband...so no mating-dances/mating-rituals are involved.

I so agree about his unreadible handwriting and lousy grammar. I believe it just might show where his eyes and attention were during his English classes.

presleynfactsrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I so agree about his unreadible handwriting and
> lousy grammar. I believe it just might show where
> his eyes and attention were during his English
> classes.

The note was dropped by a female student. This is the way they police each other for the oppressor class. An extreme example is the women fertility monitors in Communist China. They don't just keep track of illegal pregnancies--they actually monitor women's menstrual cycles!

So the fellow female student can't write correctly. It's not as though she'll ever need effective communication skills at work, out in the real world!

Fram that story...which highlights why BYU is basically BAD for developing a young adult:

"It was delivered to me quietly by a young woman I had never seen before. While I certainly appreciate her subtlety, (she didn’t make eye contact and sat down immediately after) I felt my heart sink as I saw the folded paper before me."


Female BYU students KNOW what it means to get a -note- handed to them by other females at the library or other venues at BYU...They KNOW that they have been targeted and being blamed...for SOMETHING...usually out of their control.....

Young girls/college women can be mean in general but there is a who pecking order/ritualistic thing in NORMAL society when meeting or trying to meet the opposite sex. To CONSTANTLY curb that of yourself, curb it from others, or have them curb it from you is not natural...

Forgot this part of my quote:
"Everybody at BYU knows what a library note from girl to girl means. "

Sigh.

Sexual repression and social awkwardness are so damaging.

Imagine a healthier scenario:

Guy sees an attractive woman in the library. Guy approaches her and makes casual conversation, giving off just the right amount of vibes that he's interested in her, a winning smile, a confident demeanor. Moments later they exchange numbers, and soon they're on a date.

See now, isn't that so much less creepy than ogling, feeling religious guilt, writing a creepy letter, having someone else deliver it, walking away in shame, and perpetuating a pattern of natural, healthy desires never being met?

Oh wait I get it. The girl wrote the letter. By the atrocious handwriting I unfairly judged it to be from a male pervert stalker type.

Is this really the penmanship of college students these days?! Ugh.

Women in Burqas get raped all the time and then blamed and stoned or mutilated.

Many jungle tribes around the world live with the women bare breasted and practically naked, and yet have very little problem with rape, and their sexual interactions are much more civilized than the repressed, strained, dysfunctional idea of the Mormon approved breeding program. (I could not say Mormon sexuality because I don't think it exists, as sexuality is a a wholesome word.)

Anyone but Mormon's know that evolution has left most men horny as hell, and they don't need a bare shoulder or a sliver of cleavage to get things going. There's a reason why Nun's are such a fantasy, as forbidden fruit is the strongest aphrodisiac of all and that's what got Eve into such a mess in the first place. I am of course talking about fantasy Eve, not the actual black mother of the human race from Africa from millions of years ago.

It is not wrong to fantasize or be attracted sexually. What is wrong is to live in a culture where even your normal outlet--masturbation--is forbidden. Even worse, the only counsel the Mormons have for this complex issue is the word NO. Repression at its finest.

Where is education to the young as to what what will and won't get you in hot water with our current society's mores?

Telling men not to have sexual thoughts, to be turned on, is like telling a Mormon to stop being arrogantly ignorant of facts. It ain't gonna happen.

Expecting a man not to look at a beautiful woman and/or expecting him not to desire her is like taking away his natural need to breathe!


We're hard-wired as sexual creatures. Religion robs that that from people and it's insanely damaging!

blueorchid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Women in Burqas get raped all the time and then
> blamed and stoned or mutilated.
>
> Many jungle tribes around the world live with the
> women bare breasted and practically naked, and yet
> have very little problem with rape, and their
> sexual interactions are much more civilized than
> the repressed, strained, dysfunctional idea of the
> Mormon approved breeding program.

I have to take exception with you, blueorchid. The idea of tropical peoples, dressed in loin cloths, grass skirts (or less) enjoying highly erotic, guiltless and freely available sex from puberty on is a secular myth, promulgated by Margaret Mead's "Coming of Age in Samoa" and subsequent tomes. She had an intellectual's concept of aemoral sexual-liberation ideology, and went there to prove it. Decades later, researchers re-interviewed her contacts, who disavowed her findings. They basically said, "we don't have free sex like she described. Some of us told her what she wanted to hear, some of it she just made up, and things we told her that she didn't like she just didn't include in her book."

We want to consider this when we claim "science" justifies our beliefs. We know bad science is used to ideologically validate Mormonism. Bad science is used to bolster other belief systems, too--even non-religious ones.

The tragic fact is that rape, child molestation, sexual oppression, prostitution, and other manners of exploitation occur everywhere, from aboriginal societies up to highly "civilized" ones. Consider it empirical data for the doctrine of original sin.

Your point is well made.

However, I actually was not referring to the studies or references you just made and they could be taken into consideration.

I do not have references, but did watch some shows where two white guys from England lived with indigenous tribes for some six months and what I saw was not what you described in the Margaret Meade study. I have also seen many studies of african tribes which do not appear to be what you described either, and did seem to indicate that they were not societies filled with sexual abandon and disrespect.

I did not mean to suggest that all was rosy in a topless society, my only intention was to illustrate that men will be men and women will be women regardless of whether shoulders and cleavage are covered. And more specifically, the real point is that men's thoughts come from evolution, are not inherently impure, and are certainly not automatically the fault of women.

... do not have more sex, or are hornier than those covered up more. They're just used to it, and they have their sexual behavior rules like any other cultures.

+1

Men are responsible for their own thoughts and actions.

I like boobs.

Thank you ladies for flaunting what God clearly wanted you to show off...with class of course.

I was surprised to read that, because I don't remember modesty being that much of a thing when I was forced to participate over 30 years ago.

I can tell it is now, with crap like this all over the place:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1047513,1047513#msg-1047513

Notice it was arranged by women, for younger women.

To me it's looking more and more like standard mean-girl B.S., albeit with a stupid Mormony twist.

This girl with the blog isn't seeing it for what it is, and she's participating and perpetuating it by blaming the men and pretending to appreciate the other girl's compliments and discretion.

Ugh.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2013 02:21PM by munchybotaz.

Key word here is pretending. I think she does see it for what it is, but the Mormon cultural norms are lines she is trying, somewhat unsuccessfully, not to cross.

Must be an Old Navy shirt. While I don't think it was too low-cut or revealing, it was darn near see-through. She was wearing a yellow bra. Perhaps THAT is what Dude was staring at. "They make them in YELLOW?"

Either way, the note was inappropriate, but she should be conscious of what color bra she's wearing with Old Navy clothing. The fabric they use for most things is notoriously cheap and thin. I wear tanks under ON shirts all the time for that reason.

I just scrolled down to the bottom of the article where she took a selfie of herself from the chest down in the shirt in question.....

She has a nice rack. There's no getting around that. That is not "her fault" for having one or wearing something that makes her look good. It's "my fault" for staring. But I think it's normal for me (a man) to notice a pretty woman.

Ladies, pls correct me if I'm wrong.....

Anyone want to comment on this comment from the girl in the article?

"The selling point of our Heavenly Father’s Plan of Salvation was agency. Men are blessed with a choice to entertain impure thoughts or not, regardless of their surroundings."

I thought agency was the right to chose to NOT believe in the plan for salvation

Yet she shames the guy for choosing impure thoughts. While ogling is inappropriate, it seems as this guy was caught in a trance and completely forgot about his surroundings -- of course I am giving this guy the benefit of doubt.

I personally think that the reason boys are "tempted" so much by bare shoulders and low cut shirts is because they are so sheltered in the LDS world and because they are made to be "punished" and embarassed by their impure thoughts or actions of exploring porn, scantily clad women, etc...that a T-Shirt that is in no way immoddest turns them on because they aren't used to what's in the real world or they're too scared of having to report their thoughts to their bishop. Also, this would ONLY happen in Utah...I grew up in Southern California beach cities where girls walked around in bikins and daisy dukes all day. I'd love to see those boys then! I'm sure they'd either want to scrape their own eyeballs out or walk around with boners all day. They need to grow up and accept the fact that those feelings and thoughts are perfectly normal and are HUMAN reactions. Just because you're mo-mo doesn't make you exempy from human and natural feelings. God didn't put breats and long legs on women by mistake...

This is evidenced by glancing at a young missionary's face as he wanders around his first state-school college campus that isn't in Utah-daho. I live near the FSU campus and have encountered missionaries. Actually, I observed them walking past the dance studio where I taught for a while. They were giggling and red-faced, much like I'd expect 13-year-old girls to behave in the same situation.

"His outlook on female modesty needed an adjustment, not my outfit."

Maybe the girl who handed the note needed an adjustment. Clearly the one who took the time to write that note thought it was her fault for his behaviour.

Kind of ironic how she gets shamed for immodesty, but she deems it appropriate for convicting men of thought crimes.

I'm sorry but your attire makes me want to masturbate.

I took a handwriting analysis course years ago - the textbook was written by a woman who was a profiler for the FBI. The sort who tried to figure out the criminal minds of those leaving anonymous notes. The bottom zone of handwriting corresponds to the physical and someone who makes unusually large loops on letters like "y" and "g" tend to be very sexually oriented. My guess is the girl who wrote this is finding herself disturbed by being turned on by a pair of nice, co-ed breasts and feels the need to stomp on her sexuality by shaming the girl that is turning her on.

LOL!

The yellow bra makes a light subtle glow of green around her chest!

Of course the poor kid is trying to figure out what is with her shirt!


Maybe a black bra would be better...or she could wear a red one and have a light lavender 'glow"?


She could also form a committee to hand out modesty notes to the men.

Or she could form a committee, after she has graduated, to find models for a 'beefcake' calandar to print off featuring the ladies pick of 'hottest' guys on campus!

But be sure you have your diploma in your hand before you do that!