I work with a few Hispanic Mormons, they are pretty much the only Mormons where I work. They are highly educated (masters degrees) second/third generation. They were both coverts at an early age and went on missions and stuck with it. Out of all the Mormons I've ever dealt with, they are probably the nicest (I realize that is anecdotal, but I digress). They aren't your typical cultural Mormons, and many aspects of their culture seem to trump typical Mormonisms. They associate with me despite the fact that they know I'm an ex-mo, and they are the first to laugh at their own church.

My question to them is why they would stay in a church who's top leaderships is virtually all white in spite of the fact that most Mormons are in fact brown. To me, making Elder Schwarzenegger... err Ukdorck a member of the presidency is adding insult to injury. I mean seriously, how many Germans are lining up to join the American Imperialistic Mormon Church? Hardly any (I know because a couple family members of mine "served" in Deutschland and b'tized no one sans a few kids of inactive members).

Yet this doesn't seem to bother them much, at least not the Hispanic Mormons I know. And what is even funnier, and maybe a hint at what keeps them going to church, is despite the fact that the Hispanic Mormons I know speak fluent English, they attend Spanish Speaking wards. They say they like it better, that their English speaking wards are boring. And one dude I work with was telling me that even his Bishop in the Spanish Speaking ward was a white dude. Not even the local leadership is Hispanic. But they stick with despite those facts. I don't get these guys, wake up!

This would be an interesting topic for a formal study.

I didn't stay, but my extended family remains at least nominally LDS.

Loyalty to your religous community is a deeply-embedded value, so it doesn't surprise me that many remain despite the fact that we are not represented in SLC leadership.

Before I left TSCC, I also attended Spanish-speaking wards because the social environment was better. It's not unusual for Spanish speakers to be bilingual, BTW. According to census data, 80% or more of self-identified Latinos who speak Spanish at home also speak English either "well" or "very well." Language use is a choice.

I'm not defending their choice to stay in TSCC, just giving a couple of observations that might partly explain it.

It was the nearest ward when I lived on the West side of town. Since I am bilingual, I enjoyed it very much. The people were great, activities were fun.

Then I moved to the East side, to be closer to my job. The new ward was NOT nice. So now I'm an exmo.

It never was really about the religion for me. It was about belonging to a group. My first ward in Louisiana and my Hispanic ward in NM were great - both like extended families, so that's what I thought "Mormonism" was about. I was wrong.

Same reason most Mormon women stay in their super sexist church



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2013 12:24PM by Demon of Kolob.

It's all for social reasons.

There are at least three Spanish-speaking wards in my city--at least, there were three last year when I left the church. They had fairly low activity rates. The leadership of the wards was all Hispanic, which is a good thing in my mind. (And these wards were feisty--if the stake had tried to move a bunch of gringos into leadership positions in the Spanish wards there would have been rebellion.)

There was significant conflict between the Spanish wards and the English wards. As previous posters have said, most of the attendees of the Spanish wards spoke fluent English but the cultures were so very different that there wasn't even much cross-socializing. I still think it's really sad, even though I'm out.

Same here. I don't get polynesians and Latinos. If I were told that I was the posterity of dirty, filthy, sinful parents - I'd be like WTF. Yet they shrug is off. Idiots.

I hate to say it, but Mormonism beats Catholicism in some ways.

Birth control and medically necessary abortions being two of the obvious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2013 08:59PM by archytas.

archytas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate to say it, but Mormonism beats Catholicism
> in some ways.
>
> Birth control and medically necessary abortions
> being two of the obvious.

I agree. However, virtually every Catholic I know (Hispanic and non-Hispanic) uses birth control--and I don't mean the rhythm method. Catholic women also have abortions. So, I'm not sure those would be their reasons for converting if they became Mormon.

Isn't the LDS church anti-abortion also, or am I wrong?

Pretty much every Catholic I've known, both Hispanic and non-Hispanic has used birth control as they're having smaller families than previous generations. Many even get vasectomies or tubes tied when they know they're done having children.

Th LDS, Inc is anti-abortion unless it's from rape/incest, or to save the life of the mother if she's going to die from continuing the pregnancy. I think they also allow abortion if the fetus is going to die before or just after birth. Other than that, they're very much against abortion for other reasons.

very educated and some of the nicest people I have ever met. There is a group of hispanic guys that I regularly play in raquetball and I love playing them because they are always friendly and never take it too seriously. Good guys.

I am a so-called ex-Lamanite.

I NEVER bought into the BOM lie of being cursed by God with dark skin. Neither do I feel that I am somehow special or chosen as a so-called Lamanite. It's racist bullshit!

I don't believe in forced segregation by ethnic group or language. Let members select which ward they want to attend. In every other church on the planet, all races and ethnic groups attend together. What's so hard about that?

Those who can't speak English should be able to choose a specific hour on Sunday when Spanish, or other languages are offered. It should be their choice and not mandated.

To tell you the truth, I've always been puzzled by other Hispanics who believe in the Book of Mormon and the hype about Lamanites. How does it make them feel chosen or special?

The BOM is simply a 19th century allegory about delightsome Cowboys and evil Indians -- a figment of Joseph Smith's twisted ego and overactive imagination.

No, not all races and ethnic groups worship together. Baptist and other protestant denominations are HIGHLY segregated. There are lots of black churches, lots of Korean churches,... the list goes on.

And all the gays go to the MCC ;)

I don't have any issue with bilingual people making a choice other than English. I often choose to interact in Spanish with people who also speak English.

Maybe they believe there were Lamanites as much as they believe there are elves living at the North Pole. They could be playing along. That the gringos believe it is an inside joke.

There are several Spanish-speaking wards in the Toronto region. They're certainly louder in the hallways, in that they laugh a lot more.

The only way you will find out for sure is to ask them why they

stay.

When I was younger, my local ward was about 1/4 Hispanic. The kids would be dropped off for services, but the parents generally only showed up just enough to stay on church welfare. That was also the case for about a third of the white people in the ward as well (the town had three stakes, and the one I lived in was by far the poorest).

Black mormons are an enigma to me.

I believed it was true.

My TBM niece is Hispanic.

She and her daughters perform Polynesian Dance.

They are into it BIG TIME...Travelling to Hawaii to compete etc...

I know it is because of the Lamanite thingy, but I still haven't figured it out as to why they think this is __________?


Mormons are strange birds...

White people attending Buddhist meetings don't question why the monks are all Asian.

My family is hispanic, we never questioned any of the doctrine. My father would never hear of it. My parents converted from Catholicism, sp?, when I was 2.5. My never-mo husband has asked him why he can't be one of the GA's or prophet and he says he just can't. I want to scream it's because we're not WHITE and RICH!

My father was bishop for the standard 4 yrs and then Branch President for 8 yrs. I was gone for the BP stint and only my father attend the Spanish ward. English was the main language in my house and out of the kids, I was the only one that could speak and understand it.

I never cared about being Mormon and I had heard all my life about being white and delightsome and how the brown skin was cursed. The thought never occured to me about racism until later on in life.

The joke amongst my extended family is that I was born Catholic... :)

Hispanics or latinos as you might consider, are a white race.

You are correct....however, Hispanics don't see it that way. Most look for "brown" on whatever form they are filling out (it's not there) and often leave "white" unchecked because it doesn't apply to them (or most believe.)

Race and ethnicity, two different things.

I agree that there is a difference between race and ethnicity. With being Latin/Hispanic, it can be pretty tricky at times.

I'm an Afro-Latina (grandmother's from Panama, my mother's side complete embrace being Panamanian). Like a lot of Americans (since people call it a melting pot), many Latinos/Hispanics are mixed or combinated. Yes, some are of Iberian ancestry, some have African ancestry. Some have Asian ancestry, some are fully Amerindian, many are mixed.
I learned through a DNA test from 23andMe that I have both African and European ancestry, with distant East Asian and Native American ancestry. I've known quite a few people that identify as Latino/Hispanic that have the same ancestry.

They are very clannish, I see it at work, Hispanics always sit together and stay away from white people generally, which is too bad. The whites tend to do it as well though. When it comes right down to it the two cultures are that much different. I do see that Hispanics are more upfront in what they are willing to talk about, they are very personal, they have less boundaries than white people. Whites tend to have more careful-calculated manners and tend to usually be able to say the right thing, that help them network up in a white world.

In my view these Mexican wards in Utah probably should be dissolved. These people really ought to integrate completely in the white culture so they can advance.

Wow, so offensive on so many levels.

Stereotypes galore (no boundaries? no manners?) and outright assertions of inferiority (we need to join white culture--whatever the f*ck that is--to "advance"?).

I was in one of those Spanish-language Utah wards in college and my dad was in one of the first branch presidencies decades earlier. He taught high school into his 70s and I'm a tenured university professor. I would argue that the breadth of perspective that comes from operating in multiple languages and cultures gave us both an edge in life.

If I had to evaluate your conclusion based only on the two preceding posts, I'd have to agree.

Ew. Your post pretty much shows why they want to stay separate. I wouldn't want to be around someone so backward at church.

According to your composition you contradicted yourself.

Why does your post have to be so racist?

Tactical like yourself? Is this the education you receive at Church?

White culture is a rat race to an early grave. How advanced is that?

I hear you.

I just can't get over how the Hispanic Mormons didn't see red flags when they heard about the golden plates. I mean, you know, white guys talking about the golden plates.

Hispanic covers a huge range and group of people, from the whitest of white, to the darkest of dark.

What many consider Hispanic in the US is only one group of Hispanics, normally those of mestizo descent.

Calling only those of that descent as the only ones that are Hispanic, is like saying the only US americans are those who have Native American descent in them or are from a multi-cultural/racial marriage.

The term Hispanic covers just as much a range as that of saying you are an American (as in from the US). Latino is a smaller range, but probably just as broad in regards to what people may consider different races or skin tones (if that is even important, which it isn't).

Hispanics used to be more of the European/Spanish heritage in the US, and due to that were considered white during the years where racism played a major factor in bathroom usage and marriage.

As more have migrated up from Latin America where interracial marriage is far more common, and many (take a look at Brazil) have so many cultures and various groups intermixed in their background that there is no saying where their roots really come from.

I'm not sure why the LDS church would segregate (is that what I'm understanding from this thread) in separating those of Hispanic descent from those who are not. Is that what the LDS church is doing?

I should have read your post before posting mine!

According to the postings, the issue that has arisen in the church is Social Class, not Race!

Why would it be weird for them to be in a ward where they speak the language? Is English better than Spanish?

Hispanic Mormons stay for the myriad of reasons that all Mormons stay. Why did you stay even though JS was a pedophile? Even though you were expected to perform hours of free labor? Even though your sexuality was shamed? ...

I am a Hispanic. Here are my answers:
We tend to be more culturally attached. We pride on our culture and lifestyle. Sadly, many of us look up to the white kids who came to our countries to teach about the "white god" who also loves the american indians (us) and that was a huge sale point in my country.
Hispanics tend to idolize the leadership, specially the brethren even more that other cultures. It always pissed me off.
We tend to believe more in miracles, saints, evils spirits... I think that was forced into our ancestors so badly that many of us still carry it.
During the 80' the mormon religion placed us "lamanites" as such an important part of Jesus plans to return that many hispanics are holding dear to those teaching even when many of us have seen how those teachings are slowly disappearing.
I am disappointed and really sad as how our culture is still lied with "mirrors".
Many people who now live here in the US, used to serve in high positions in the church. It is normal to find former bishops and former stake presidents among your regular member here. Most of them used to work or still work for the church (another reason to better believe and stay or else).
Also, we tend to like spanish wards because in american wards only about 60% would welcome a hispanic/american family. If the family is 100% hispanic then the welcome ratio falls to 15%.

Source: my own experience

TBMs don't use their full mental capacity because they shut much of it off when it comes to religious beliefs.

Make no doubts that many are holding out for a sudden surge of Latinos and other races to lead the church. Where I served on my mission, somebody would cut out the church leadership and highlight all the names of Latinos and other minorities that were in the 1st and 2nd Quorum of the 70s. This would be hung for all the members to see while they passed by in the hallways of meeting houses and the stake building too.

Many wanted to remain faithful to see the great day when the Lord would call faithful Elder _______ to serve as the first Latino Apostle. It is a big dream for many that may never come about.

> Many wanted to remain faithful to see the
> great day when the Lord would call faithful
> Elder Olddog to serve as the first Latino
> Apostle. It is a big dream for many that
> may never come about.


I would have been such a rock star as an apostle! Oh, the weeping and wailing as the faithful saints surged forward to clutch at the hem of my fancy pants...!!

But then I would have met Saucie (that was ALWAYS fated to be!) and my fall from grace would have been equally spectacular! (Actually, it would be a rise to grace!)

But let us not lament/lamanite what could have been, but rather let us celebrate how ordinary I am! (And yes, Cheech Marin would have played me in the movie, "The Rise and Fall of a Nutty Brown Apostle.)

One thing about Hispanics is that all (or almost all) of the Hispanics who have Native American blood in them are obviously descendants of the Nephites/Lamanites and thus of the House of Israel. Thus the Hispanics believe they are the ones having the Book of Mormon prophecies fulfilled now as they, the modern Lamanites, blossom as a rose.


Now I'm aware that some anti-Moroni people don't believe this. They think that either Moroni was a big liar or that Joseph Smith was a big liar. Supposing that Moroni was a liar is absurd but some people really do this in two big ways.

1. They claim, usually indirectly but they can't deny what they are doing, that Moroni must have been clueless in knowing about all the other civilizations/tribes in the Americas that were around the Lamanites/Nephites. Keep in mind that Moroni was a great prophet-seer-revelator himself and that he knew ancient Nephite/Lamanite history & Jaredite history very well and who became an omniscient resurrected angel of the Lord when he talked to Joseph Smith.

2. They dishonestly ignore the history of the Jaredites in making their claims on their mixing theories and then pretend that Moroni covered it all up. The mixing theory is that the Nephites/Lamanites mixed with local populations of people with DNA markers that were like those of people in Siberia/Mongolia. However anyone who reads the Book of Ether, accounts of Joseph's visits with Moroni, and everything in full context will know that these mixing theories are bunk.

Oh and there are the others with their unthinkable theory that Joseph Smith made it all up. How in the world could they ever think that this great prophet who told us about parts of the Kinderhook Plates and who translated the Book of Abraham facsimiles so marvelously could've gotten the Book of Mormon wrong? Just go read those passages in the KJV of the Bible that match up to the Book of Mormon in comparison to the JST inspired translations of the Bible to better understand this. And besides wasn't he a great transparent husband in Nauvoo?

isthisnameok? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And what is even funnier, and maybe a hint at what keeps them
> going to church, is despite the fact that the
> Hispanic Mormons I know speak fluent English, they
> attend Spanish Speaking wards. They say they like
> it better, that their English speaking wards are
> boring.

As a native Californian (gabacho--of white American South, and white American Midwestern, ancestry), if I (despite the fact that I am nevermo) was going to Mormon activities, I would VASTLY prefer the Spanish-speaking wards too.

Even if the underlying content of the material was ostensibly "the same," the language and the ambiance would be infinitely more interesting in the Spanish-speaking wards, not only by language but also because of culture and cultural references (easy examples: "La Llorona," and "Las Mananitas").

Plus: any food served there would likely be FAR preferable to "non-Spanish-speaking" Mormon food!

In Spanish-speaking wards, I bet the "inside" references are funny and culturally comforting, and that attending these wards would be an excellent way to increase and expand everyone's Spanish linguistic abilities (so: less intellectually painful than English-speaking wards, less boring, and substantially more challenging in good ways, which could be even to the point of actually having FUN!).

Que Bueno!

You don't like Jello?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't like Jello?


:D

Or funeral potatoes? ;-)

Why are they called "funeral potatoes" anyway?

Church fulfills and number of needs on Maslow's hierarchy. Belonging love acceptance belonging to something larger than oneself, herding instinct.

Me either.

Can you explain the non-Hispanic Mormons to me?

Working on a new Religion!!

GNPE's SOL was born in Mexico, he was welcomed into family because he is (was?) an RM. DD & he have 5 kidlets, pretty sure no more.


They 'honored' him by calling him as Br. President of the Hispanic branch a few yrs ago, not sure what his 'calling' is now, he works nites, that's a killer for a church calling. They're right in middle-class social-economic.

Curious thing is, he's pretty much a loner as far as his wife's (my DD) side of the family, he's 95% into Hispanic social things as far as time goes....


I can't recall Hispanics being called as BPs in non-Hispanic branches, does anyone?