THE CHALLANGE - DON'T U thinkg u should be going back to those sheep u used to brainwash and THELL THEM THE FUCKING TRUTH???

I know that here ( in Latvia ) there are RM's who r coming back to Latvia together with their US families to revisit the victims of their brainwashing techniques.

but are there any RM's who have left the cult and THEN go back to their missions to tell the truth???

I think it's particularly true about the UTAH mormon missionaries.

they should take on partially the responsibility for all the shit bloody joseph did.

here in Latvia no mormon knows anything about polygamy, 5 billion mall, kinderhook plates, adam god doctrine, 9 accounts of the 1st vision, salamander letter (by the way those living close to the jail where mr. hoffman is residing say hello from me and give him 20 mayby 25 buck for cigarettes - I'll refund u via PayPal, many thanks) or any other bullshit related to morg.

Latvia isn't utah where people find it possible to defend the "pigs fly" theory like mormon apologists can do it in utah.

when I read accidently all the shit about joseph I was out within 2 weeks!!!

SO U Return Missionaries WHO HAVE LEFT THE CULT - don't u think that this is the right time to go on mission (on a real truth spreading mission even for only a week) to apologise or to share the truth at least to those YOU BAPTISED or USED TO DO HOMETEACHING or apologise to those people u disturbed by knocking to their doors (ok, the last on was not serious about door knokcing).

SO NEXT time u want to book a holiday to sunny hawaii or spain, rebook it for bloody russia or cambodia or latvia. and prove to yourself by your deeds u stand for the truth. otherwise u're still a lying morg. and you're lying to yourself that you have left the cult. in your heart you're still in



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 09:52AM by douchbag.

Nope. They're grown. They made their own decision.

FUCK U!!!!
they made their decision based of LIES, HALF TRUTH, manipulation and abusing their broken life situation( divorce, loss of job, death in a family etc.)

what r u talkin about???

U R STILL A MORMON

Sheesh. Take it down a notch.

Nope, not still a mormon. You can read my many posts and exit story if you'd like to confirm that.

I convinced those 21 people on my mission to join the church.

"Convinced"

I didn't force them, coerce them, or indoctrinate them from birth. I didn't threaten to ground them if they didn't go to church.

I shared with them what I believed and asked them to pray about it. They all did. They all claimed to feel good about it. They all decided to join.

Later on, if they discovered the information I did, they had the same choice to stay or leave. That's on them.

That's how it works.

totally...I mean TOTALLY disagree.

Specifically, which points do you disagree with?

1. Do you think I forced them to join the church? What methods of force did I employ? Gun? Torture? Ransom?

2. Do you think coerced them to join the church? Did I blackmail them?

3. Do you think I indoctrinated them from birth? How would I have accomplished that? I'd never even met them until my mission.

4. Do you think I threatened to ground them? How? They were adults.

5. Do you think I didn't believe in mormonism when I was on my mission? What do you base that on? You don't even know me. Why would I be recovering from mormonism if I never believed it?

6. If they discovered the church was false, are you asserting they no longer have a choice to stay or leave? Why is that? Why do you think they don't have the same choice any of us had?

You said you TOTALLY disagree with me. What exactly is it you disagree with me about? Hmmm?

u made few good point which made me realize that i'm still growing in my opinion about RM responsibility to repair the damage and at the same time I find a lot of BS in your talk. though less than I heard in a GC few weeks ago.
let me reorganize my forces and I'll shoot back SPECIFICALLY what I mean. it's a coffee and cigarette break at the moment for a douchbag

AND, when I read these options--looking for where to place the blame, the question needs to be asked, "What percentage of the responsibility lies with the convert? With their upbringing? With their unique past? With their particular set of genes? With their inability to sort out reasonable fact from bull?"

I think you're the one who would steel if it wasn't illeagal. you wouldnt feel bad about it. thats why we need laws and rules and law inforcement.
though I'm not sure about killing. you still might dislike it.
good job.

I think you're obviously working through some anger, and that's a good thing. Feel free to point it in my direction as much as it's helpful to you.

It still won't help your case...

I made a decision to go on a mission when I was 19 years old, after being fed a constant diet of lies and half-truths from everyone I knew, and I mean EVERYONE, from the day I was born.

Now what?

Oh, and since I've figured things out about the church, I proselytize my new anti-gore-spell spiel to anyone who is curious or wants more information regarding the same. I certainly don't bring it up unless asked, but anytime coworkers / friends / acquaintances want more info, they get an earful from me.

Including when I travel to central america every year on vacation.

Are we good now?

If all the tithing that I estimate I paid (between the ages of 8 and 36) earned an average of 5% interest every year (simple interest rate, amortized annually), it would currently be worth:



$1,308,895.00 USD



Shall we really talk about harm inflicted? I want a check!

HOLY SH..!!!
1.3 millions!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 02:29PM by douchbag.

Calm down dude. Holy shit.

I went to Spain - I'm pretty sure anyone I baptized figured it out on their own. The only person I really stayed in touch with quit being Mormon before I did.

How are things going now in Spain, church-wise?

I feel the same way, CA girl. I was in Bolivia 30 years ago and am sure that anyone I converted was long gone probably before I even left the country.

Actually, I did. Once I got back home and got my head firmly around the things I had learned, I contacted the few people I had taught on my mission and told them what I had found. I apologized for having tried to get them involved in something I now regretted having been involved in myself.

The responses were all pretty much along the lines of "You were doing what you thought was right" and no one seemed upset about it. Of course, I had not been very much of a missionary, since I had begun realizing the truth about the LDS church before I went on the mission, so I didn't really do a whole lot of teaching.

But, still, I thought it important that I "undo" as much damage as I could.

Whoa dude, chill. As one poster said, they are adults. Just as I believe it's no good to go proselytize for a religion, I believe the same about doing it against one. I really have learned that people believe what they feel most comfortable with. That's why so many stay in Mormonism and don't want to know the the truth.

I doubt any of the people I baptized were actually converted. The just did it to make us happy or to get us to stop nagging.

as long your mission caused a person to pay x amount of cash as a tithing it's already a damage worth repairing. doesn't matter they were converts or not. don't forget in 3rd world countries poverty means smth different than in us. one considered poor in us might be pretty well off in 3rd world country.
so the damage done in terms of tithing is very relevant.
and even if it wasn't 3rd world country but a person y payed amount x as a result of your mission you are at some degree responsible.
suggestion:
find them, contact them and offer to share the damage 50/50. as u're both victims of dick joseph.

Yes, I would like to, but have no idea how to get a hold of any of them. Since retention rates are so bad for converts, I bet most of them are out anyway.

Self flagellation sucks.

Guilt sucks.

Repentance sucks.

Don't ever buy into it. Don't atone.


Knocking on doors sucks too.

Luckily for me, none of the 8 people that me or my companions baptised have anything to do with the church any more. It was in Puerto Rico, where many mormons are still catholic at heart, or have the attitude that anything from god is good. I don't believe that anyone that I baptised actually believed it was the one and only true church.

You make several assumptions:

1) You assume that we were somehow considered so complicit in the scam that we now have a moral obligation to right the wrongs we committed. Unless someone went on a mission knowing the church was false but chose to spread the lie anyway, I disagree with your assumption. The missionary is as much the victim as any member who converted under their watch.

2) You assume that we have a good income and plenty of money to pay for a return to our mission fields, and to pay for hotel, travel, and food while we spend who knows how much time wandering the land, looking for those we converted, which would no doubt take weeks (and that we can afford to take weeks off while searching).

3) You assume we have any contact with those we converted. That may be the case for some, but it is not for others. Many who have that contact have used it to inform the converts of their disbelief.

4) You assume that if all of the above were true, that those who we converted would welcome the news that we had deconverted and that the church is in fact not true. Many would feel sorry for the poor deconverted missionary and stay true to the faith, others would not be ready to hear the truth.

I expect you're feeling misled and betrayed, but that wasn't from malicious missionaries, it was from the organization, who used and abused those missionaries.

And now it appears that:

5) You assume we can afford to pay back their tithing, or at least half of it. Maybe if TSCC paid me back my tithing I'd have some free cash to pay back 1/2 my convert's tithing. Of course in that case TSCC would be paying back their tithing too.

Again, the missionaries were not evil agents rubbing their hands together gleefully as they anticipated getting a bonus for getting you into the false church. They paid hundreds of US dollars a month for the privilege of being over-worked, abused, unappreciated, and often under-fed and denied proper medical care, all in the service of a lie.

what I wrote was a general guideline.
every case is different.
just take the cult's principle - do all that's in your power and god will take care of the rest.
if you're a poor american exmormon who's become a hobo so god will forgive u for being unable to contact the victims.
if your busy paying alimintets to your ex tbm wife to support your 10 exkids thats fine.
but if youre an avarage yankee exmormon just move jour ass. who cares that there would be ones that feel sorry for a lost sheep like u.but u would still comence an eye opening proces for those who have a potential to get out. AND SAVE A LOT OF THEIR MONEY. because not evreybody is poor in Latvia.
but I agree that we are all victims.
actually my opinion has evolved during this thread.
now think any RM who resigned after the mission should do at least something to inform their ex wards and ex members in those wards. doent have to be just utah missionarie.
AT LEAST SHARE THE LINK OF THIS SITE

It is hard to contact people from 15-18 years ago. When I went to an old mission area I found it no longer is there it is now a freeway.
I will never again force religion on other people. I will not preach to Mormons against their religion unless they want to know.
I do make it known that I am a member anymore.
I was able to find two converts thru facebook both had already left the cult and were glad to hear I did also.

Despite the aggression/anger in your post, I actually understand where you are coming from. Many times I have wished I could afford the trip back to Moscow, and contact those souls whom I influenced in some way! I was super close just a few months ago -London-, but the visa requirements from Russia were a total pain that I needed to have started months before. However, I think that in the Spring, I am actually going to do it if money goes like it should (its not like just taking a long drive cross-country here in the States...) Yes, I do feel a responsibility - More of a Karma thing i think...- Because I know that what I taught really did impact those people, and they changed their lives. Its kind of like the residual duty one has when you are trying to make restitution. In my case it might not be possible due to expenses, but I sure as Hell wanna try sometime....I loved those people, and I would never want them to believe something that I had found out was based on the most egregious and god-offending lies ever!

Only about 1 in 5 converts stay with the church. The damage done is like the T2 model -it usually repairs itself given enough time.

If there are any people left that are still TBMs that I influenced on my mission, their response would be the same as any other TBM. They would think I am crazy and influenced by Satan.

averaged 8 baptisms per mission, of those 8 baptism, most went inactive.

It is our own sentient intellect that gets us in or out of anything.

Sorry you got duped douchebag, but it will happen to everybody many times in their life. No one is exempt from being conned and fooled. And the ones who think they can't be are the biggest fools of all.

Your agenda seems a lot like shooting the messenger. Or, blaming the mistress instead of the cheating husband.

Only if the mistress didn't know the husband was married, which is the case for missionaries.

i agree. it's close to shooting a messenger but not spot no.
why did uchdie talk about mistakes done by members in the past?
because THE GOOD NEWS OF THE TRUTH HAS SPREAD.

and that's probably the main goal of mine. just start doing somewhere something BUT REAL. so the cult feels the damage in therms of apostasy and money (actually it's not apostasy when u fall away from lies - it's converting to truth, another misrepresentation).

venting on this site is good but real therapy comes from real action.

my opinion is still developing and being fine tuned

Those people chose to accept Mormonism in their lives. Most of them are inactive, but the few who might have remained active are probably only active because they are getting something from it.

Their choices are not my responsibility.