My TBM wife has never had an orgasm. We’ve been married for over ten years. She’s very reserved, particularly when it comes to sex. She’s never been able to talk openly with me about our sexual relationship.

We were both virgins when we got married, so we have had zero sexual experience besides with each other. Since our marriage, I have read several books both on sexuality in general and on female orgasm specifically. I have tried to implement the things I learned from the books, but my wife has been very resistant to try anything new.

We were seeing a marriage therapist around a year ago, and this therapist suggested seeing a sex therapist. My wife quickly dismissed the idea. The marriage therapist then recommended a book on sexuality. I bought it and read it, but my wife wouldn’t touch it.

A month or so ago, I again brought up the topic of sex therapy. I said that I felt like it would be very beneficial to our relationship. She finally reluctantly consented.

At the first appointment, the therapist said that for a woman who has trouble reaching orgasm, it is best to figure it out on her own first, and then to teach her partner what works for her. From what I had read, I knew the therapist was going to say this.

My wife had previously said that she was uncertain what she thought about masturbation. So she asked her bishop about it, and he told her it was a sin. She is therefore unwilling to touch herself at all, and told that to the therapist. The therapist said that it is possible to overcome anorgasmia with a partner, just much more difficult.

It is extremely disturbing to me that a lawyer who just happened to be called as the ecclesiastical leader of my wife’s congregation is dictating what we can and can’t do in our bedroom. That my sex life is being hindered by the opinion of someone with no training in sexuality or medicine or psychology or anything related to this issue. I know there are plenty of bishops in other areas that do not consider masturbation a sin. Why would God’s law concerning masturbation be dependent on geographic location? Do I need to move my family to another area so that the bishop there can tell my wife that there’s nothing wrong with masturbation and that what a husband and wife do in their bedroom is not his concern?

My therapist who is LDS claims masturbation is okay when spouses master are each other or are in one another's presence. Would a sensuous massage at your hands be something your wife would try? I feel for you both for many personal reasons.

Maybe help her rationalize it. Hinckley gave a talk about following modern medicine, maybe that would help.

Bishops are men, he might be making a mistake.

Maybe she should get her own personal revelation about it.

I'm sure you can find some jokes about lawyers in some general conference addresses.

There's my two cents. I'm sorry you two are going through this.

The correct response from a Bishop is "that's a personal matter between you and your husband and perhaps Heavenly Father."

TSCC needs to back off talking about sex to children, young men and young women and apparently ADULTS.

It's hard to see how you can make her resolve such a personal issue if she does not want to do what is necessary to do so. Is her anorgasmia also impacting you or do you simply feel obligated to help her?

She also has very low sexual desire, so we're seeing the sex therapist about both issues. We have sex very infrequently, and when we do, it seems to be out of obligation on her part, and she just wants to get it over with.

Would overcoming the anorgasmia help increase her desire for sex? I don't know. Maybe. But I think our relationship would improve if sex became a mutually enjoyable activity rather than something she does just to appease me.

she hasn't orgasmed. Fair enough.

I'm not a sex therapist but my understanding is there are women who have not, or do not typically, orgasm who otherwise enjoy sex. And there are women who orgasm easily who are not interested in/do not enjoy sex. In other words, the problems may be related but one doesn't necessarily cause the other.

There's not much you can do about her issues except be supportive and keep encouraging her to talk to a therapist. That said, I mean, is there any indication that you might be part of the problem? Because that is something you can work on.

My husband is a TBM and a fanatic in most ways. Even he thinks masturbation is OK if you do it in front of your spouse. Would she be able to have you watch?

Does she care if she orgasms or not?? If she doesnt WANT to, then nothing is going to help or work. If she wants to, then I do think she needs to start by touching herself and figuring out her body first... she cant expect you to know more about her own body than she does.

Speaking from my own experience. It took me/us quite a few years to figure things out, we also married as virgins. There is quite a learning curve.

Wow. Same story for me. My wife didn't have an orgasm for 12 years. She won't masterbate. She tried a vibrator and will only use it whenI am there. It worked. But she very seldom uses it and that is the only way for her to climax. It takes about 30 minutes or more for her to come. Total crusher on the sex life...

???? I'm confused?? Why would masturbation be necessary if the spouse is right there?

I'm thoroughly confused--it sounds like being asked to make chocolate from scratch while standing in a Willy Wonka factory.

It's your body--Is a spouses (or anyone's) approval necessary for normal functions? What about eating? going to the bathroom? passing gas?

frustrated--I think it's nice that you want sex to be a mutually beneficial experience. It's considerate and giving. :) I can see how her lack of an orgasm would detract from your experience. Having sex with someone who doesn't enjoy it would be a major buzzkill..

I agree that a female therapist or female doctor or someone she is REALLY comfortable with is necessary to talk to. There must be publications/articles written by women professionals about this--maybe she can start there?

There are also women-owned and women-supported sex toy shops that sell books, toys, etc that might be embarassing at first to look at but they do a lot to help women become more comfortable with their bodies through education.

Many women require direct "stimulation" in order to orgasm. A vibrator can do that. My finger never had enough gas in it to go 30-60 minutes. Electricity is essentially endless. Yea, that is how it works for my wife. No fantasizing, she won't touch herself, the vibrator, for some reason is acceptable, but she won't do it unless we are in the act. Which means we take a gigantic "time out" (30-60 minutes) while she vibrates. OK, now you all know what I've been up against. Yes, we've been to professionals, read books, etc. You can't undue Mormon young women programing in some cases.

neverevermo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ???? I'm confused?? Why would masturbation be
> necessary if the spouse is right there?

Masturbation has a direct feedback loop so that the person doing
the stimulating and the person being stimulated are the same
person. This means that split-second adjustments can be made
with no misunderstanding and with no time delay. This way one
can explore one's sexual responses and learn more about them.
This information can then be transmitted to a partner once it
has been discovered and is known.

I think a lot of Mormon women are brought up being told that sex is dirty, evil, that it becomes impossible for them to enjoy it. If she was really interested in changing she would not be asking the bishop for permission.

How does she respond to oral stimulation? Does she enjoy that or is it taboo too?

Maybe she is just too uptight because of your expectations. Work on getting her to release other inhibitions that have nothing to do with sex. Take a vacation where you do lots of physical activities, and take some risks together, Teaching her to let go in another context and some physical exhileration may help her to let go in the bedroom.

some guy from the neighborhood what's OK to do in bed? Ugh! Maybe time to draw a line.

Another successful counseling session with the bishop.

Funny. Masturbation is okay for him. Why not one of the women in the ward?

My son turned 12 - I sent and e-mail to the bishop that i completely disagree with the churches stance on masterbation being a sin. Asked him to inform me when and if the topic is discussed so my wife (who still attends) and I can de-program him. I wish the church could see how much damage this issue causes...just move on already

I was taught by a TBM professor in a class called "Courtship and Marriage" at Snow College. This professor taught the reason why masturbation is bad is because of how it's spelled: "u r" in the middle of it, meaning if you're masturbating then you're losing an opportunity to have sex with your spouse. If your wife has permission from you, then she should go ahead! But I'm also conservative in bed and my husband would probably have some of the same complaints, like not wanting to try anything new, and it does take away the appeal when someone is saying "Go ahead! Enjoy!!" Has she watched the movie "Pleasantville"? It actually has a scene of a woman masturbating in the bathtub, making her black & white world turn color! That might be a sly way of introducing the subject with her.

If she isn't willing to try masturbating at all, then as people have mentioned before, more foreplay. Also, if she's not wearing socks, have her wear a pair, there was a study saying that women who wear socks have more organisms than those who don't. Certainly works for me! ;)

Women who wear socks have more organisms.

That is. . .during sex.

How are your oral sex skills? Most of my girlfriends LOVE it. Are you seducing your wife? There are books to teach you how to put your wife in the mood. My husband is so good now, he can get me to stop whatever I'm doing to join him for some fun. Sounds like your focus has been on machanics.

Sadly, your wife doesn't know what she's missing. I feel badly for you too. Half the fun is making your partner's toes curl. Hang in there:(

Took me about 20 years to learn how to masturbate my DW, tweak those nipples, lash that bale, rub and rub and make her sail!

really???! REALLY?? where is the study for this, because that seems really out there and stupid. I'm also annoyed because I HATE SOCKS. lol!

It totally works for me. I never realized it might work for others, or that there might be _studies_ on it, lol!

We're all different, I mean, I get nothing out of oral, but I know many women who can ONLY get off that way. Socks rock my boat not yours. Cool.

(F-bomb)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6k9TFjWiGs

Would she be more likely to respect a LDS therapist view? I think there is an LDS sex book at Deseret, "And they were one" I believe. I would hope a licensed therapist who is LDS would be more helpful than that bishop. I agree with the other commenter though, if she actually doesn't want to, I'm not sure anyone can make her. My sister I believe is like that, she just appeases her husband, can't talk about sex and I'm doubtful she's ever had an orgasm. She doesn't seem to care and can't understand the big deal about sex...for obvious reasons. I was shocked after I was divorced and single for a while to have a bishop ask me if I masturbated. I was dumbfounded and caught off guard and stupidly answered, "well, yeah, sometimes..." He told me something to the affect that it was a sin and I was on the edge of darkness, he could tell by my countenance and so I needed to stop or be disciplined. After a very long marriage and active sex life, I have no idea how anyone goes cold turkey after divorce and has complete sexual restraint. I was glad when I could contain it to masturbation, dating became difficult after a few dates I'd have to stop seeing the guy or it would get too physical. But I carried incredible guilt and shame over everything outside marriage. So glad to be married again. I recommend the Hitachi Magic Wand vibrator, it was designed for muscles so you could get it and pretend that is why...but it is magical for women if you can get it on her :)

Oh it is "And they were not Ashamed, Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment" by Laura Brotherson at Deseret.

In the immortal words of Russel Brand -

"You have to penetrate deeply and stimulate the clitoris simultaneously".

Oh, and keep church leaders out of your bedroom.

Haha!! Forgetting Sarah Marshall! Love that movie. Love Russell Brand.

A man went to see his doctor.

“You need to stop masturbating,” the doctor said.

The man asked, “Why?”

The doctor replied, “Because I'm trying to examine you!”

-----------



Actually here is part of an article TV's most well known Doctors.


http://www.oprah.com/own-ask-oprahs-all-stars/Dr-Oz-answers-viewer-questions-on-health-and-addiction/5

.......
GAYLE KING: Okay, this, this question also applies to women. How many times a week is it normal...for a woman to masturbate?

DR. OZ: You know, this actually is a big deal for me. Because, uh, there are probably a third of the women, at least in our television audience and maybe in the audience here in the studio, who have trouble having orgasms. And the most important thing I can tell ya is if you don't know how to masturbate, you're gonna have a difficult time having an orgasm. So, you, you better work on that if you really wanna enjoy life to its fullest. I feel the shame that women feel towards their, their reproductive organs...it's essential, and you know, a lotta women and guys, they - you know, they spend a lotta time not talking about this. But we need help. We don't know this stuff. And it is knowable. Listen, there are some things in life that are knowable, other things that are not. This is one of the knowable ones. You can take classes in this. And I don't want you being shy about this. If you don't enjoy intimacy of having orgasms, you are sacrificing years of your life, 'cause there is data there, that how long you live - for men it's linked to how many times you have sex, but for women it's not the amount, it's the quality of that sex.

DR. PHIL: If he's, if he's any kinda doctor, at the end of the show, he'll have a prescription pad, and he'll write out, "Masturbation for you women." He'll sign it you can take it home.
...............
Read more: http://www.oprah.com/own-ask-oprahs-all-stars/Dr-Oz-answers-viewer-questions-on-health-and-addiction/5#ixzz2jpTl4kEE

Would she be open to reading the Kama Sutra? I would recommend the ones with illustrations. How about reading erotica? Might gently boost her sexual desire a bit before getting into the vibrators and other things mentioned here.

When I went to the doc' to ask about the same problem.. His first question was have you had sex within the last week?

I said no... My birthday is not until next July!

Your wife might have been damaged by her religious upbringing, and there is also the possibility that she might be asexual (which is an actual sexual orientation, like heterosexual or gay).

If the fundamental problem is that she is asexual, there is no "cure" because this would be her REAL sexual orientation.

Google: asexuality.

I married someone who was very damaged by a totally messed-up religious background (Catholic, in his case, but a particular pernicious "kind" of Catholicism), however this was only part of the problem. The REAL problem was that he was asexual, but he did not know it and neither did I. He always assumed that the problem was his Catholic upbringing (which certainly amplified and justified his asexuality, but did not cause it).

Knowledge is important. If you are able to rule out asexuality, then there will be much more hope for an eventual good outcome for both of you.

I empathize.

Asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction towards others.

A good deal of asexuals masturbate. They mostly do it because it's pleasurable & relaxing.

Many asexuals in relationships also have sex with their partners for a variety of reasons.

Who knows if this lady is asexual or just has sexual hangups. I personally didn't become truly sexually liberated until I accepted my own asexuality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2013 03:58AM by Tristan.

this is, essentially, a communication issue between the two of you. It's time to have some serious talks with your wife about how disturbing it is that some other man is able to take charge of your wife's sexual experience and your own sexual experience. Please talk with her, tell her how violating that feels for you. It's not even about the church, it's about her letting ANOTHER MAN INTO YOUR BEDROOM. Phrase it like that. The communication needs to happen before the sex stuff can be worked out.

It's also time for a visit to that bishop's office and a talk with his superior as well. Tell him to stay out of your bedroom. Raise hell.

Ok.
Here's the deal. I didn't orgasm for 12 years after marriage, and I wasn't a virgin at the time. The mormon upbringing, though I was feisty, is a sexuality soul crusher.

If your wife will not masturbate, she will never come. Even my TBM sister, that will use a vibe with her no longer TBM husband, cannot do it. There's something to fantasy, and if a woman will not allow herself to do that in her own private head by herself, she will not feel comfortable to do such a taboo thing in front of her husband.

I honestly don't know what to tell you. The church is in charge of your wife's vagina, and she willingly is letting that happen. I don't think she's asexual, as someone commented, but that she is afraid of sexuality in general. It's not even her fault, but I'm afraid there's not much you can do. She may enjoy sex, she may not. Even when I was having "close to orgasm every time" sex, without the orgasm, it's really not that much to look forward to. It can become a duty. And it's hurtful to watch your husband come every time, when you can't. We read the Mormon books, we fasted, we did everything "mormon" you could think of for me to come. It comes with leaving the effing church. And water aerobics. ha ha. Once my core was fit, I had better muscle control in my nethers. TMI.

I'm really sorry. It's stories like these that really piss me off about religion.

But I have heard amazing things about the Hitachi Wand.

I would be concerned with the fact that your wife will not communicate openly with you about her sexuality and your sex life. This is a sign of emotional maturity. I would work on that first.

Tell her if your sex life does nor improve you will find a woman who will be more responsive to your needs.

Sometimes people try harder when they realize there is a little competition on the scene.

Without a doubt, very bad advice.

Making it into and adversarial issue is not how one facilitates
greater intimacy.

Orgasm isn't this organic thing that just happens with women, unlike men. We have to learn how to do it. Many don't until their 20s or later. When I was first learning how to get off, a college roommate suggested this.

When she's really close but not quite there, speed up the breathing. If you can control your breathing, that can help get you there.

But if she is brainwashed to think that sex is bad, dirty and dangerous, even with her husband, she's not going to be able to relax enough to even get close. I would just have a long talk with her explaining that a mature, adult marriage includes sex and if it doesn't, then there should be some discussion of that. It's not fair that she gets to make the decisions for both of you about quality and freqency.

I wish I had better advice every time someone posts a thread like this. I think it's the saddest thing in the world that some people go through their entire lives not knowing how amazing a good orgasm feels.

Cis-woman here.

Men and women are ver different when it comes to sex. Women need to feel close to their sexual partner. I'm going to tell you about two of my past sexual partners, one of them made my legs snap shut likea bear trap, and the other one, well, let's just say I walked bowlegged for about a year.

Guy #1 would initiate sex by doing one of three things: grab my chest, shove his hands down my pants, or take off his pants and climb on top of me. All so unsexy.

Guy number 2 would initiate sex differently each time, but it was along the lines of staring into my eyes, running his fingers through my hair, cupping my face with his hands and giving me a tender kiss, walking up behind me and putting his arms around my neck and nibbling my ear. These all had a common thread too: he read my mood. He knew when I was feeling angry or sad or happy. He knew that sex was about passion and closeness and love. (And sometimes biting and hairpulling.)

+1000!!! yes, be like guy #2

ANYTHING of a medical or psychological nature? I bet not.