I've been watching the MacNeill trial and today it just hit me, when you swear under oath as an atheist what is it that you are really swearing to. And in a court of law where you are swearing to "tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God", how does that apply when you don't believe in God?

The secret is that atheists get to lie. Shhh...don't tell the Mormons. They'll want in.

You're on a roll tonight Don! Love your comments!

Perhaps we atheists have just figured out a way to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth without any help!

love it! But you know atheist can not be moral! It takes religion and threats of your demise to make one "good".

Well, of course! Everyone knows that!

And the threats must also not end with just your demise, but they must carry on into an afterlife of some sort. There you'll be justly and lovingly tortured for all eternity for telling your wife that dress didn't make her look fat!

Many courts will allow a person to skip the God part and not have to touch a bye-bull now. Probably not Utah.

I think the 'so help me God' is a way of saying you will answer to God if you don't 'tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.'

I'll be curious to know if an atheist has ever refused to say 'so help me God.' I know in mock trial in high school, it was simply left out.

I believe you answer with a yes. In Florida, you have the right to swear or affirm. Affirm basically means you pledge to tell the truth, without the God stuff. They also don't use a bible. I don't know any states that still do. Maybe Utah? You just raise you hand to the square and swear or affirm.

Dirty little secret, though I have been called to court a number of times to testify, never once have I ever actually had to do so. The accused always plead a deal with the prosecutor first. It was all misdemeanors and citations anyways.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2013 09:32PM by forbiddencokedrinker.

Just look at the words themselves: 'God help me to tell the truth and the whole truth'= I invoke a higher standard than my partial and often self-serving perceptions. I know, it may be simply lip service, but it's supposed to make the witness more meta-aware and to cut through all personal distortion. In spite of presumably honest intentions, atheists are just as prone to personal distortions and need the ratcheting up to a higher level of objectivity as anyone. (Even putting all witnesses under sodium pentothal wouldn't eliminate their unconscious biases.)

Nothing there about accountability to the divine if one skews the truth, though I guess that's entered the connotation.

It's like having to swear to Mickey Mouse. There's Mickey Mouse on the money. There's Mickey Mouse in the flag salute.

Having god on everything cheapens things for me. It's like having a cartoon character involved in things that I take seriously - like telling the truth in court.

Imagine how people who believe in god would feel if god were replaced by another pretend character like Mickey. Of course they won't understand why an atheist like me would view Mickey and God as equally made up. They probably would not be so keen on having a cartoon character inserted in their oaths- and being expected to swear to it.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for the laughs!!

If you refuse to say those magic words they put you in jail.

Saying, "under penalty of law" would make more sense.

here in PA, you are permitted to NOT say those words or attest an oath to them, and use alternate wording, instead. Just ask about it prior.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2013 11:48AM by bookratt.

I think I love PA!

Why, oh why, do I still live in mormondumb?

January 9, 2013

This week, as members of the 113th Congress were sworn in, Representative Kyrsten Sinema (D - Ariz.) drew attention as she placed her hand over a copy of the United States Constitution, instead of the Holy Bible. The last time this change of pace occurred was in 2007 when Keith Ellison (D - Minn.) requested to be sworn in using the Quran. 


http://www.policymic.com/articles/22443/kyrsten-sinema-uses-constitution-not-bible-to-take-oath-of-office