http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/kosovo-police-arrest-terror-suspects-20862708

Anyone else hear about this before now? It happened on November 3rd, about 10 days ago but was just reported yesterday, for the first time, as far as I can see. It was the AP that reported it, not the Mormon Hierarchy of course. Maybe we can force them to acknowledge it & report what happened, the condition of the Sister or Elders, etc, now that the cat is out of the bag. Are they alive or dead? We definitely need some details on this situation.

Mormon missionaries being attacked by suspected terrorists is a pretty big deal and news story! I wonder if the parents of the missionaries even know yet?

Who even knew that there were Mormon missionaries in Kosovo? It was news to me. It is part of the "Adriatic South Mission that encompasses Kosovo." They Just started sending them in 2012. They started with 6 & who knows how many are there now?

They planned on sending Sister missionaries this year for the first time, according to the article below. Why not? I think the debacle in the Philippines that just happened, proves pretty clearly that they don't give a damn about the safety or protection of missionaries, especially Sisters.

http://religionandpolitics.org/2012/08/15/what-are-mormon-missionaries-doing-in-kosovo/

It's like how they just put 5 Sister missionaries into the most dangerous area of Nicaragua, TIPITAPA. The water is green(some days no water at all) & they have to be home by 8, because of the drunks roaming the streets with machetes. NO JOKE! They are harassed daily by the men in the streets and are distressed by it. They are also physically ill most of the time! This info comes directly from current missionary blogs.

Missionaries are now required to call in their numbers DAILY, which only causes more stress when they're sick or people won't listen. It was weekly on my mission. They report getting yelled at & reamed by their leaders & being so upset, crying, etc.

The District Leader calls them every night at 8, to make sure that they all made it home safely, alive, without being attacked, stabbed, killed, raped, etc. Sounds like a great place for Sister missionaries, doesn't it?

Everyone was shocked that the Mission President would even send sisters there & to other dangerous areas. This is just another symptom of the sudden overload of missionaries, especially sisters, that NO ONE was prepared for. They have to send them somewhere & now that includes very unsafe areas that up until now have been "ELDERS ONLY!" Sisters are being sent recklessly where NOBODY should be!

Sadly, most likely, only tragedy will come from it!

This was just barely posted on the trib webpage:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57125799-78/beaten-kosovo-missionaries-church.html.csp

Why didn't their garments protect them?

You're simply a heatless fool

I have read all the comments here, and most of you should feel ashamed for who you are as a human being. You resonate so much animosity and hatred toward an organization that helps countless millions of people while you all sit on your ass and complain, judge, and make harmful assumptions. It doesn't even matter if you were once a member of the church. Who cares? Move on, get over it, and let people believe as they wish. You are not being personally harmed in any way. Life is too short and there are too many organization that pose real threats in society.

I personally know one of the missionaries attacked. They're safe, and recovering. Yes their parents knew about it immediately following the incident. There was no massive coverup and was intentionally kept quiet to capture more people tied to this particular terorist organization.

I am not a member of the Church and although I don't agree with some of their teachings, the mormons I have met and interact with are excellent people. How do their beliefs affect you in any way? If you don't want to be part of their church, don't. If you are the type of people responsible for this website, then this site has lost all credibility and reflects who you really are. I only post to let the few people on here that expressed genuine concern for the missionaries of their status. The rest of you should question who you are as a human being. Completely shameful.

Read closer - you will find everyone concerned about the missionaries - many here are returned missionaries.

Adverse comments are directed at the corporation and the hierarchy that is exploiting the missionaries. Adverse comments will be made about the stupid rules they are expected to follow and the lack of concern for their safety - because we here have experienced this ourselves and know what they are going through.

While you are on the board, check out the threads about humanitarian assistance the corporation has provided in the past - it is a scam. A tiny fraction of the money members provide is used in highly publicized PR charity efforts to bolster the corporation image and generate more funds from members.

wrong place



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2013 04:38PM by spanner.

Not being personally harmed "in any way"? Would you like to substantiate that?

The Trib article doesn't give the date of the beatings. I might sign on and point that out and ask why it's just being reported now.

Yeah, I was looking on all the big news sites, and since this isn't breaking, none of them are picking it up. Sounds like the church tried to cover it up, until one of the family members talked, and the Trib got the story.

I posted and asked the question. I said it's suspicious that this story showed up the same day ABC News published an article about the terrorists and happened to mention American Mormon missionaries. I didn't say it in my post, but the story appeared exactly an hour after this post appeared on RfM.

Trust me, it's no coincidence. I tried to get their attention long before posting it here and posting it here was what finally did the trick & forced their hand, pretty quickly as you point out.

I know it, I know that they know it & I/they cannot deny it!

The biggest fear in the world for Mormon Inc. is bad PR that may affect their precious money train. They didn't want to get too far behind a big story like this one. For most people, it was the first time that they've even heard that there are Mormon missionaries in Kosovo. What a sad way for everyone to find out eh?

Now the whole world knows & wants to know why. It's reckless & dangerous, as we have now seen. Now they're left to explain how they were put in harms way to begin with and why other missionaries are still there as we speak. There are no easy escapes for the Mormon Hierarchy on this one.

Trying to convince Muslims to abandon their faith & turn to Christianity, is pretty damn dangerous & I'm sure they aren't very popular. We also know that Mormon missionaries target kids & that would be especially dangerous over there, in my opinion.

Oh yeah & missionaries are now traveling in groups of 4 in Kosovo, so they're perfectly safe. Nothing to worry about now, what a relief! I hope there aren't any remaining members of that possible terrorist group still walking the streets! It would NEVER cross the Mormon hierarchy's minds to just pull the missionaries out..that would look bad, like a retreat..I mean they are "God's Army", right?(with no idea how to defend themselves of course!)

"Another sad aspect of this story, are the pathetic TBM comments over on the Mormon Jesus' KSL. So cold and heartless.."we all chose to willingly go and serve, helping people is more important that the risk, they knew the risk, it could happen in Utah, it could happen anywhere, maybe we shouldn't send missionaries anywhere then, there are dangerous places in Utah, Kosovo is no more dangerous than Chicago or Detroit, they do EVERYTHING in their power to protect us, being beaten for sharing the truth of the Gospel is never something to be ashamed of, the ladies(who were attacked & beaten) that were serving there would go back and reopen Pristina if The Church would allow it"(only because they're so damn brainwashed/indoctrinated/programmed just like YOU!), etc, etc.

It just makes me SICK!

The other big story I'm breaking tonight, that no one else has covered, that I've seen, is that Sister missionaries are re-entering South Africa for the first time, right now, this week, since that brutal gang rape back in 2006, which I covered thoroughly, earlier in this thread.

What has changed to now make South Africa suddenly safe? It sounds like they'll be all alone in some town, probably isolated, that has never had the church before. There will be 3 sisters. Let's hope the best for them. I'm sure there'll be Elders there with the Priesthood too, to baptize or maybe they'll just show up on Sundays for church & baptisms, if there are any.

If anything happens to these Sisters, we all know who to directly blame, as the big 15 have claimed to pray about it & get the answer that they were to be sent back in this week. That is exactly what was told to the sister who was just told she was being called to a very special calling & going back in to South Africa.

She feels very honored but is also very scared, from all the stories she's heard. She doesn't seem to know about the 2006 gang rape & shooting, as you know they'd never tell her or any of the Sisters going in WHY all of the Sister missionaries were really pulled out back in 2006.

I remember on my mission, being told that we were in danger, that people were threatening Americans & the First Presidency had received a revelation & ordered us to remove our name tags..yeah, because the bad guys out to get us would NEVER, EVER realize we were the American missionaries without our name tags..the suits & ties would NEVER give us away. I guess it was like Clark Kent & his glasses hiding that he's really Superman. Missionary name tags are like a spell!

Even at the time, as a die-hard TBM, I thought that was stupid & it made no logical sense to me! I still watched my back & didn't believe that would make us safe!

Thanks Limes for the link to the Trib. News spreads quickly!;) They also just had BREAKING NEWS on Utah's Channel 2, KUTV about it, promising more details later. The church had no statement or details for them at this time(other than what was given to the Tribune), but KUTV promised to dig for the details & let us know later. No question Mormon Inc. was trying to cover this one up for as long as possible.

At least we now know it was 2 sisters & that they "have been moved out of the area" & "are making a full recovery." I'm sure their next statement will be that they "will finish their missions", of course & probably be sent right back to the same area where they were beaten, since the bad guys, who are suspected terrorists, were arrested!

We need THE TRUTH! How badly are they injured? Why didn't we know before now? Will they make ths Sisters' family pay for the medical bills? Are ANY Mormon missionaries safe now in Kosovo? Are there still missionaries there, in that same area?

Who cares about their psychological, mental well being, right? As soon as they heal PHYSICALLY, they'll be ready to roll, for the rest of their missions & life after the missions. No counseling or help needed. They have the Mormon Jesus & prayer.

No harm no foul & no cost to the Mormon Hierarchy, just the way they like it!

Who is "church spokesman Cody Craynor" anyway? He must be their newest, designated LIAR FOR THE LORD?! What a job that must be eh? I wonder if it's now an unpaid "calling?" Who would want it?

With so many missionary deaths this year & tragedies, maybe they're just taking turns now or playing rock, paper, scissors.

Guess Ruth Todd was busy dealing with something else today..probably another missionary tragedy/death that we're about to find out about!

Somewhere in the middle of the article it says that the suspects were arrested on November 5th, two days after the attack, so November 3rd. That's pretty slow reporting, 10 days is forever. And nothing on the church newsroom website as of right now anyway.

I've got to check some State Dept reports to see if the info made it to the embassy. I'll let you know if I find anything.

I am so sad for this. Anxiety has ruined my 20's and 30's from PTSD. I would give anything to turn back time, and learn better tools to deal with traumatic experiences. There is at least ONE that will be emotionally distraught from these type of incidences, and ONE person's life is important to me.

I am so disgusted...and sad. :(

If they were women, and they were attacked by a religiously inspired mob in that part of the world, then there is a very high probability they were also raped. If so, the church is probably hiding that part too.

That was my thought also. The only time that I had problems shopping in bazaars or even walking on the street when I lived in Central Asia were from Eastern European men. They had no compunction about grabbing me, which illustrated that they had no respect for me as a woman. It was difficult for this "worldly" woman to handle these situations; these young sheltered inexperienced girls are sitting ducks. I despair at the treatment of them by the church that sends them into dangerous areas with absolutely no training and the Holy Ghost as their only protection.

That's actually a common problem in societies that over emphasize modesty. Basically, when you tell women they have to cover up, so men won't have impure thoughts, what you are really doing is telling the men is that they can't control themselves if a woman is not completely covered up.

You even see it in the states, where female rape victims get blamed based on how they were dressed. It's only a small step between, "that man wouldn't have rapped you," to "that man couldn't control himself." Of course since people of the same exact religion and racial makeup are able to control themselves when they are raised in western countries, that shows how full of crap this kind of thinking really is.

Its ridiculous and dangerous to send missionaries into a place that has had decades of religious/ethnic strife. Sheep to the slaughter. It angers me that anyone would be sent there, and that parents would be so brainwashed that they would agree to this, and even fund the missions.

Wonder whatever happened to those two sister missionaries who were gang raped in broad daylight in Africa?

Talk about having PTSD for the rest of your life .....

Glo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wonder whatever happened to those two sister
> missionaries who were gang raped in broad daylight
> in Africa?
>
> Talk about having PTSD for the rest of your life
> .....

Details?

Danny Brock was the pathetic South African Mission President(daughter, ironically, MOLLY Jolley) and said, RIGHT AFTER they were robbed, violently & brutally raped at knife & gunpoint FOR HOURS, one shot in the stomach:

"The two 'sisters' voluntarily gave up 18 months of their lives to make a difference in this country. Now, they're getting the best care money can buy. When this is over, THEY PLAN TO REMAIN IN SOUTH AFRICA AND COMPLETE THEIR MISSIONARY WORK."

and

"They were walking alongside a busy road (the old Harding highway), which they knew well. Moreover, it was one of the busiest times of the day with cars whizzing past. Safer than that, you would not get."

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Mormon-missionaries-gang-raped-20060703

So they weren't planning on sending the Sisters home to heal, physically, emotionally & psychologically, rather keep them there the whole time in South Africa, AWAY from their loved ones. How cold, despicable & cruel! It's as if NOTHING HAPPENED & life would just go on..they get better physically & start knocking doors again..UNBELIEVABLE! How could Danny Brock be that cut off from reality..that COLD?!

"Safer than that, you would not get", even though they were robbed, gang raped for hours & one of them shot? Sounds safe to me Danny!

When his daughter MOLLY Jolley from Bountiful was interviewed, when asked what happens now, she said:

"The Work Must Go On."

I think that sums up the Mormon mindset perfectly!

I found the video of her interview:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1laxd_molly-jolley-says-the-work-must-go_news

"They've concluded that the sisters were doing what they were supposed to be doing", as if there was doubt that maybe they brought it on themselves, right?

Church says: "The church makes every effort to ensure the missionaries are well informed about the areas where they serve."

Oh yeah, so it was their fault after all..they should've known better not to be walking down a busy street, alone, in broad daylight, in the violent crime & rape capital of the world.

Here's a great article from the Deseret News about it, back in July, 2006. You'll notice the church's statements are almost identical back then, to the canned ones they read today, every time a missionary dies or is killed or injured, which has been a lot this year.(13 including Peter Allan Maughan in Mexico, which they still won't discuss or count.)

They don't even make any effort to come up with a new, different or personal way of consoling the family, because THEY DON'T CARE! Mormon missionaries are simply just numbers!

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/640192113/Sister-missionaries-are-robbed-raped.html

As they say, the more things change, the more they stay the same, especially in Mormon Inc.

I'd also like to know why they send out these pathetic Spokesmen or women? Where is ThomASS Monson himself? Where is Eyring or Uchtdorf? Anyone of the top 15 Apostles available?

Too busy I guess preparing their next conference speech while eating catered food in the Joseph Smith Memorial building dining room, covered in gold..what a tragedy!

I also found this, which I didn't know on the Cumorah site:

http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=missiology_articles&story_id=75

Health and Safety

"Violent crime poses major obstacles for Church growth. South Africa suffers from the one of the world's highest rates of violent crime and rape. The sexual assault and robbery of a pair of sister missionaries serving in the South Africa Durban Mission in 2006 resulted in the withdrawal of all sister missionaries from South Africa in that year. Full-time missionaries limit proselytism on the basis of areas and time of day for safety reasons. Driving also poses safety hazards, evidence by the death of a missionary in the Johannesburg mission in 2008.

South Africa's population has the fourth highest percentage of those infected with HIV/AIDS in the world at 17.8% of the adult population. HIV/AIDS generally spreads through illicit sexual relations and drug use. Other sources of infection include contaminated needles and HIV-positive mothers. Church members infected with HIV/AIDS are less able to contribute to long term growth and establishing families in the Church due to the disease shortening their life spans and limiting potential for raising a family."

I also found this article, about the rapists being convicted:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/missionaries-rapists-convicted-1.386871#.UoQ4tXDqi48

So according to the Cumorah link above, they pulled all sister missionaries in 2006, "THAT YEAR", due to this horrific rape, but did they ever put them back? OF COURSE THEY DID! They're there right now, in 2013 as we speak! I wonder what changed to make it safer for them?

I found the blog of one of the 3 sisters that is being sent back in to re-open South Africa for Sisters & this is what she wrote & it's very interesting, especially the part about the FP & Apostles approving it(so if anything happens...):

"I'm being transferred to South Africa.... AHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Once upon a time, for years and years, South Africa has been strictly forbidden to sister missionaries. Its just too dangerous for us. Well my mission consists of all of Botswana, all of Namibia, and a tiny sliver of South Africa. I am being transferred to that tiny sliver. Its a place called Mafikeng. I got a call from my mission president on Friday. He told me that with transfers coming up he had a special assignment for me. Last time I got a 'special assignment' I was called to be a trainer. So I thought that might be the case again. Nope. He told me that my special assignment was to open a new area. That alone made me nervous. Opening a new area means you go to a place where there currently or in the past there have not been missionaries. Then he told me what area I would be opening. Mafikeng. South Africa. I am literally re-opening an entire country to sister missionaries. As far as I know, I will be in a three- some with two other sisters and we will be the only sister missionaries in the entire country.

He told me that this is a really sacred trust from the Lord. My mission president had to approve this with The First Presidency and the 12 Apostles. They prayed specifically and approved us three sisters to open this area. Honestly, I'm terrified. I think its just the unknown. But at the same time, I am so so so excited. This is such an incredible opportunity! The Johannesburg mission had been trying to approve sisters to come back to South Africa for a long time but it was always rejected by the 12 Apostles. But for some reason, this is the right time and we are the right 3. So as nervous as I am, I am so excited."

So does anyone know whatever happened to these sisters from South Africa? We don't even know if they got HIV/AIDS or not? According to Danny Brock, they were going to "finish their missions" before even knowing if they had HIV/Aids! WOW! You must be proud Mormons! So much love, understanding & concern!

I hope that they're doing well or as well as can be expected & got all the help they needed, one way or the other..we all know that they didn't get it from the CULT!

Now sisters are back in South Africa, nothing has changed & I guess all we can do is hope for the best & that nothing like that ever happens again. It doesn't sound to me like they're gonna have any help or protection in their new area, 3 sisters all alone. Let's hope that isn't the case.

I guess the CULT will never learn(because they don't care) & unfortunately, neither will many of the die-hard members, who send their children into harms way, naively & foolishly believing they'll be safe, protected & watched over!

Thank you SO much for taking the time to research this subject and make it known to the public. The information about the health and safety of the missionaries serving the LDS church is being suppressed and flat out lied about. The church is almost criminally careless about caring for their missionaries. What you quoted above:

"Church says: "The church makes every effort to ensure the missionaries are well informed about the areas where they serve."

is such utter B.S. it makes me sick to my stomach. I was a sister missionary in Spain. I don't remember the church EVER giving me information about the safety of the area I was in. Church members would warn us to stay out of certain areas but other than having boundaries about where to teach and admonitions about not teaching guys alone in their apartment, no specific safety information was EVER given to me from the mission leaders. Missionaries would also caution other missionaries but there was no real information. It was just word of mouth. And the danger was compounded by the fact you weren't allowed to watch the news or read the paper. There could have been a murder three houses down from you and unless a member or one of your neighbors told you about it, you would have just blissfully gone about "the work" feeling safely protected by legions of angels protecting the chosen messengers of God. In our mission, two sisters were raped coming home late from a teaching appointment and THE MISSION PRESIDENT NEVER TOLD THE OTHER SISTERS. Maybe he thought he was protecting the sisters' privacy but to not warn all the other sisters of the very real danger ... I can't even think of the words. He just let us go right along, doing the same old thing, clueless.

The amount of denial parents and their missionaries are in is unreal. They honestly believe God will keep them safe because they are special. It's delusional. Not all missionaries - one of my better companions used to say "God don't help the stupid." Meaning you had to be careful and informed. But in some areas of the world, even that isn't enough and even the best and brightest are in serious danger. But that doesn't matter to Mormonism Inc. It's an outrage.

Couldn't believe this quote in the story:

"Now, they're getting the best care money can buy. When this is over, they plan to remain in South Africa and complete their missionary work."

Oh, yeah. Best care money can buy will really do the trick.

I've been to Serbia (of which Kosovo is a province). Really fucking stupid place to send Mormon missionaries. Kosovo wants to secede from Serbia and their common border is the sight of armed skirmishes. When we travelled to Serbia in 2008, Kosovo was considered a very dangerous place by the Canadian government and travel there was NOT advised, so why would the MORG send mishies into a war zone?

Ron Burr

Here is a church publication which shows the "challenges" (and inherent dangers) of proselytizing in this area.

http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=view_other_articles&story_id=482&cat_id=30

Are there really people in Kosovo who want to convert? Really?

Supposedly, the young ladies were from Bluffdale, Utah.
http://www.kmvt.com/news/regional/Two-Utah-Mormon-Missionaries-Beaten-In-Kosovo-231923781.html

BIG Question:

Would they have survived if the perpetrators had not already been under surveillance?

Looks like there is more to this story.

They would have been targeted because they were missionaries. Unless they were rescued rapidly, they would have been sexually assaulted (male or female) -Muslim scripture actually allows if not dictates that treatment of non-Muslim female prisoners of war, which is what the terrorists would have considered them to be.

This is actually a religiously condoned method of sex for fundamentalist Muslim terrorists.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Rape#Raping_Prisoners_of_War

Mormon sister missionaries are absolutely targets for fundamentalist Islamic nutters who consider attempting to convert Muslims to be an act of war.

I am totally gobsmacked and livid that any missionaries are in Kosovo. My husband served there in the Army - he went missing for a week after getting caught up in ethnic cleansing only a few years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2013 04:39PM by spanner.

If the church, the parents and the nominees collectively are all willing and eager participants in the euphoria, what, sadly can be done, realistically to stop this utter madness?

No emergency message or warden message has been sent to US citizens in Kosovo, about this incident:

http://pristina.usembassy.gov/mobile/emergency_messages_for_us_citizens.html

Terrible to hear. But that area is not known for safety and security and I hope they knew that at least, before going.

I also hope they were legally registered there when this happened, so that those who supervised them weren't afraid to get them any help they needed, immediately; that they were treated properly by the authorities, and also, that the crimes against them when discovered, were treated as such.

I have my doubts about all that. And for that reason, I am really hoping they are as OK as they can be right now.

It wouldn't take a lot to figure out the very limited choices of which sisters it was in Kosovo.

This is one of several sisters that posts locations and names (of missionaries and converts and members) and pictures quite openly.

http://motrahoover.blogspot.com/

Unlike many of the Russian missions (and Ukraine and some others) I've been surprised they've been letting the Adriatic South mission blog as openly as many do.

You can find blogs of some of the others in Albania from the above blog since she gives names.


As far as South Africa, this blog is interesting as well - two sisters and one was in the Jo-burg mission though served in Botswana (so is now in the Bostwana/Namibia Mission) and blogged quite a bit as the missionaries in Zimbabwe were getting kicked out, and a lot about legalities and such if you look at the earlier entries (her sister is in Scandinavia somewhere so they sort of alternate updates).