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Posted by: jujubee ( )
Date: November 15, 2013 09:59PM

is it true you can't be a higher up in tscc if you've been divorced? and you loose your job in the CES if you get divorced?

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Posted by: neolithicsneakers ( )
Date: November 15, 2013 10:19PM

I spent several years in the heart of the Morridor as a divorced man. I had a pretty cool bishop who tried to include me by giving me callings such as were permitted to a divorced one such as I was. I was SS Pres. for awhile, then SS teacher.

I don't think it's any secret that divorces are considered broken in the Mormon culture. People were generally nice to me but the fact that I wasn't included in many activities was not lost on me.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: November 16, 2013 09:17PM

I don't think that divorced men are as hard up in Mormonism as are the divorced women. Divorced women are a kind of scourge in the Mormon frame of mind.

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Posted by: Brambleberry ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 09:06AM

I have been inactive for a year after 14 yrs of discrimination . I was aware I was excluded from activities, and callings. When I got callings they were the ones the 'all is well in zion brigade' demeaned too menial for them to do…such as activities committee ( not chairperson) and librarian…vacant for 6 yrs….my family have been easy prey for bullying and manipulating and there has been no protection from leaders who chose to believe the bullies ( after all they are priesthood and therefore good men..ahem!)….and then the lies my stake president screamed at my accusations of pure fiction…not thank you had quite enough of this…and yes they admitted I did not get callings as I was unreliable and would fail..never would cope…( I am a college lecturer and I travel a lot and teach managers) I have not had sick time in 6 years does than make me unreliable????or not cope..its a high profile job...

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Posted by: allegro ( )
Date: November 15, 2013 10:51PM

Well I was in several wards because of school after the divorce and job transfers. I had passes made at me by 3 Bishops, told by a Bishop that I was lying about keeping the law of chastity in a TR Interview. Told by a Bishop I might as well have a big red D on my chest, told by a Bishop no auxillary wanted me for a calling, had a RS President call me at 11pm (I was sound asleep after spending the day in clinicals) asking me where her husband was, told that my children would be a a severe disadvantage in life. Interesting that her daughter ended up a drug addict and my kids are all very grounded and doing well.
There is more, but suffice it to say, before divorce--RS counselor and President, after--nothing. There are a few people on that state in their profiles they are divorced or widowed and lost their jobs at CES(sickening). I remember two were not shy about saying they wanted to get married as soon as possible to have their job back.

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Posted by: allegro ( )
Date: November 15, 2013 10:56PM

Well I was in wards in 5 states because of school after the divorce and job transfers. I had passes made at me by 3 Bishops, told by a Bishop that I was lying about keeping the law of chastity in a TR Interview. Told by a Bishop I might as well have a big red D on my chest, told by a Bishop no auxillary wanted me for a calling, had a RS President call me at 11pm (I was sound asleep after spending the day in clinicals) asking me where her husband was. I asked a Bishop point blank if I would be treated as badly if I was married and in the ward. He looked at me and told me no.
There is more, but suffice it to say, before divorce--RS Counselor, RS President,various teaching posiyions, always asked to join activities, and after--nothing. There are a few people on that state in their profiles they are divorced or widowed and lost their jobs at CES(sickening). I remember two were not shy about saying they wanted to get married to keep their jobs.

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Posted by: anondivorcedone ( )
Date: November 16, 2013 02:55PM


It's worse for women than men. My experience: ex-DH got sympathy, dinner invitations, and blind dates set up for him -- even before we actually filed! The week after he moved out (still two months before we filed), he got a calling in the singles ward. He started dating other women the week he got his own apartment -- with his new bishop's approval. The bishop refused communication attempts with me or my bishop.

My bishop, incidentally, told me that I would lose my exaltation if we divorced, but DH would get "hundreds" of faithful wives given to him in the CK because I had failed. He didn't care what DH had done/was doing. He held my recommend for four months because I went to lunch with a male co-worker the week the divorce became final (it wasn't even a date).

I got shamed, shunned, spied upon, and gossipped about. My kids were targeted in some very nasty and scary ways. HTs refused to show up -- I got one visit in three years, during which they gave me a blessing that was mostly about how tragic and hard the rest my life would be.

Looking back, it amazes me that I didn't have the sense to realize that all of that was NOT what Jesus would do.

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Posted by: wideawake ( )
Date: November 17, 2013 12:55AM

WOW, that story is just unbelievable! these people make me absolutely sick with their petty double standards!!!!! so what, its better to stay miserably married than be divorced? and why are the men treated like kings and the women paupers afterwards? absolutely reprehensible behaviour. just when I think this disgusting cult can't sink any lower a post like this appears.

so sorry you had to go through all that anondivorcedone.

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Posted by: dk ( )
Date: November 17, 2013 01:56AM

Single women, whether never married or divorce, are a dime a dozen in the mormon church. Men worthy enough to hold significant calling can be scarce. I've known loser males just converted to the church, pressured to marry some poor divorced sister with 5 children.

If mormon women wanted to show their true power in the church, they would all stay home one Sunday and let the men run things by themselves.

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Posted by: Brambleberry ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 09:12AM

I can perfectly believe your experience. It is not so different from my own. The only difference for me was my husband was not a member.( They had wanted him desperately because we were new comers to the area and he was senior management and therefore potential leadership)..when he abandoned us attitudes changed radically towards me. Also people made comments such as ' look on the bright side you can get a temple marriage now' ..except there are no men in the church to marry…not ones I would consider worthy that is..( some very dodgy characters indeed).So I remained single, excluded and like you fodder for discrimination, and exclusion and bullying.

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Posted by: ChrisDeanna ( )
Date: November 16, 2013 03:25PM

There were so many blatantly unhappily married women in our ward -- that I became the litmus test for "What would divorce do for/to you?"

I was immediately NOT invited to anyone's house.

By contrast: My children's father did not seem to be lacking invitations for him and our children (during his visit times) to join the happy LDS families for dinners or boating or playing out doors.

My experience was that I was damaged and I no longer fit in!

BTW, I am a convert and an RM.

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: November 17, 2013 01:39AM

Yes, it's true.

I was shunned, no longer invited to speak, lost my callings, was dropped from the Stake Women's speaker circuit and when I went into surgery, no one inquired about me, brought a cassarole or even phoned.

Even crazier, the men started requesting a chaperone to ride in the car with me, who the ward clearly now considered a "Loose cannon" or maybe I should say "a vagina on the loose."

The bishop told me they could not find a home teacher for me whose wife would permit it.

And this while I still had a temple recommend!!!


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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: November 17, 2013 09:45AM

anagrammy you write my favorite posts. "a vagina on the loose."
That made me laugh out loud. Sorry you went through this.

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Posted by: snuckafoodberry ( )
Date: November 18, 2013 08:06PM

He he! I know it isn't funny but the vagina on the loose thing ..

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Posted by: Brambleberry ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 09:18AM

Oh you made me laugh! But what you said is really what they are thinking! I have wound so many men up about this…'careful now you better not come with me…I am single , I might rape you!'
Then again I also wound the men up when they were being very phariseeacal regarding not driving women home even in bad weather at night because their souls might be at risk…I suggested that there were hidden dangers in all the men driving to stake priesthood meetings as they do…after all that male bonding they ma begin to have thoughts of same sex attraction like they do int he military! Faces were dismayed…did not know what I was talking about! But they knew exactly what I was saying…it was discrimination.

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Posted by: The other Sofia ( )
Date: November 17, 2013 07:35AM

I had the similar experience as Anagrammy. In spite of the fact that I still had a Temple Recommend and had received Temple Cleareance from my Bishop and Stake President and there was not even a hint of sexual impropriety on my part, I suddenly had women in the Ward afraid to have their husbands anywhere near me. I had to be given new OLD Home Teachers. Women looked at me with suspicion if I even spoke to their husbands. It hurt.

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Posted by: LabansWidow ( )
Date: November 17, 2013 09:09AM

Huh, I got some of that too after my husband died. For the first 12 months I got a lot of sympathy and support but after that I could not chat to a married man without getting the evil eye, from the husband, the wife, or both. Single Mum on the loose obviously trying to crack onto the husbands. HTs and VTs dried up too except for one elderly very kind man who had been friends with both my husband and myself.
I also noticed I was forgotten in my current calling and was only once asked to give a sacrament talk. I'd been asked 3 times in the year prior to my husband's death.
FYI I was a TR holder, RM, married in the temple, clean record, self-supporting woman.

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Posted by: allegro ( )
Date: November 17, 2013 09:20AM

Wow, these stories are incredible. I was told the same thing from a Bishop that they could not keep HTing me because their wives did not like it! Very few people believed my experiences. I am so sorry that other have experienced the same things, but grateful that I am not alone.
There are a few things that really scare leadership. One is a happy, self supporting, TR holding divorced woman. That is why we are not up there giving talks. We are not sad and downtrodden. We look and feel better than alot of the married women. It shows we did it and were successsful. That will come across over the pulpit and leadership cannot have that.

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Posted by: Brambleberry ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 09:20AM

So that is why I was not given talks for 6 yrs and then only because someone was sick and they needed it at short notice.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: November 17, 2013 09:55AM

There were many women (some divorced, some not) who really liked my husband. Then there were some of the girls who never married from our old singles ward who still had their eye on my husband. When he left, you could almost hear the cheering. He is still almost 18 years after he left invited to Sunday dinner by some of the singles ward women. One of them said something about me "needing to let him go."

He's gay. Of course, they can probably save him because I obviously couldn't.

I was single until age 27. I already knew what it was like to be single in the lds church. I went inactive when I found out he was cheating. I wasn't going to go through the fallout in public and I wasn't going to allow my children to be treated like second class citizens.

One time--before I had stopped believing, my dad asked me when I was going to go back. He felt I was "happier" when I was active--not taking into account I found myself where I was because of the church. I told him what it was like to be single in the lds church. I rendered him speechless and that very seldom happened with my dad.

What I really love now is when I'm seen around town with my boyfriend. The old bitches from the ward can't seem to hold in their shock.

Oh--my HTs were a couple.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2013 09:58AM by cl2.

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Posted by: jujubee ( )
Date: November 17, 2013 06:26PM

LOL So a married woman is less of a threat when she talks to a married man? I guess marrieds don't cheat.

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: November 18, 2013 06:13PM

Actually, the church is very aware that not only do married cheat, but they cheat with the opposite sex married who are working with them on callings. longer are married-to-others assigned to prepare youth events together. Married couples are assigned as a team if they need a couple.

Too many temple-worthy, HOly-spirit-having, happily forever married people jumping each other's bones in the chapel in that last push organizing an activity to strengthen the youth to resist temptation.



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Posted by: tapirsaddle ( )
Date: November 18, 2013 07:41PM

You're not safe even if you remarry. I remember lots of gossip about a remarried woman in the ward I grew up in.

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Posted by: sexyanonymousgirl ( )
Date: November 18, 2013 11:17PM

There was a couple that got divorced in my own ward with a newborn and three kids under 5. all the ward members still loved the woman and shunned the guy. I was surprised caused they cuddled in church, and they were praised as the golden couple

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Posted by: tomie ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 01:40AM

I remember a woman at church said other members would avoid her in the grocery store after she divorced her husband.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 01:58AM

Starting to see why my SIL is choosing to stay with her abusive husband rather than return to her divorced mom status and face an abusive church. Not that I condone either form of abuse but this thread has made me understand her mindset a bit better.

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Posted by: T-Bone ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 02:17AM

Some say that it's worse for women, but that doesn't mean it's not bad for men. My brother is divorced and his son lives with him. When they moved in to a nice neighborhood (my bro is an executive) some of the neighbors came over and made no attempt to hide that they were snooping around.

One couple even asked, "Where is your wife?"

A few of the parents won't let their kids play with my nephew. To my brother's credit, he said he doesn't want that type of people around his son. His son now has a poor opinion of Mormons, not just because of the recent snooping, but because of other events at school where Mormon kids displayed typical Mormon behavior.

Outside of the Morridor, nobody would ask about my brother's wife. Most normal people realize it's none of their business unless somebody wants to tell them. But Mormons don't recognize boundaries. We already know that.


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Posted by: adoylelb ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 03:11AM

I guess I was seen as a vagina on the loose, as well as someone who defied the priesthood because I filed for divorce against my abusive TBM ex-husband. I instinctively stayed away from church the Sunday after I filed for divorce as I could tell how I would be treated. The example of that was seeing someone I recognized at the local Target, and she grabbed her children and walked fast to get away from me.

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Posted by: anondivorcedone ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 05:03PM

<vagina on the loose>

Yes, this! I had similar experiences being shunned by married women in the ward while in public places, especially the grocery store. The ones who did come up and say hello were obviously scanning the contents of my grocery cart for anything sinful (like coffee) so that they'd have something to tattle about.

It was rumored that the Primary president's husband had an eye for me. I don't think he did (he never even said hello to me at church or anywhere else), but she apparently didn't like me enough that she instigated several nuisance complaints to the city about me and got the city to force me to evict the lady to whom I rented my basement (also a single mother). Several of my neighbors also rented, but they were left alone.

Shortly before I moved from that neighborhood, another neighbor admitted to me that the woman had started a campaign to get rid of me because "it just wasn't right" for a single mother to be living in their neighborhood.

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Posted by: Dee ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 02:15PM

I remember a young woman in my ward,whose ex-husband had filed for divorce after only 6 weeks of marriage. From what I heard from my friends (I was a fairly recent convert) the whole marriage came about rather strangely. She and the guy had never even sat together in church. He just approached her one Sunday and said,"I've got enough Frequent Flyer points to go to Sydney. You want to go and get married?" How romantic! (Sydney, far as I know, has Australia's only temple, though there was talk of building one in Melbourne)
According to an old gossip, whom I was close to, this woman had been bone lazy, claiming she couldn't prepare meals, because she'd cut herself at the temple, losing her job selling Electrolux, due to too many sickies,etc. The general consensus at church was that it had been a very long 6 weeks for the former husband. The woman was shunned by all and sundry,for having failed as a wife.
She had a thing for the youngest son of the aforementioned old gossip and he treated her like dirt,which didn't exactly endear him to me. (He liked me, which was most unusual around there, another story for another time. I wasn't interested, he was a 30-year-old Mummy's boy.)
His mother would never have let him marry the divorced woman anyway, as he was set to inherit the big, posh house and everything in it. Word had certainly got around, what a bad housekeeper the divorced woman was. I was told all this, when I went around to see the old gossip and talk to her about the way her darling son had been treating this poor woman. She took the attitude, "He's an adult, I can't control him." Whatever!

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Posted by: icedtea ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 04:51PM

It doesn't surprise me that the ward members were finding all sorts of nasty, judgmental things to say about the divorced woman -- nor that the gossip focused on the two qualities on which every Mormon woman must be judged: her ability to keep everything perfectly clean all the time, and her ability to work hard even if she is sick or has a medical condition.

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Posted by: sizterh ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 06:14PM

I took a college class with a TBM. I said something to her about being there early when it was just the teacher (a never-mo). She acted like this was a bad idea. I asked if he was a creep. She scoffed, "well he IS divorced."

I dunno, he seemed like he was a nice guy. I don't know why he was divorced but it did not seem to make him an automatic horrible person.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 06:21PM

The worst "divorce" comment I heard was from my then-divorced SIL. Her first husband left her for another woman and she moved and was having a rough time in the ward, being single with little kids. I suggested she try to find other single mothers and get a play group together - or even one or two other moms - just people in similar circumstances so she'd have someone to relate to and her boys would know other kids whose parents were divorced. So they wouldn't feel like they were the only kids in the ward who was uncomfortable singing "I'm So Glad When Daddy Gets Home." That sort of thing.

SIL replied "No way - I want my sons to hang out with NICE children."

The comment was horrible on so many levels...

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Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: March 10, 2014 09:16AM

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