I have another question to throw out there. Catholics have done this also and I couldn't unnderstand. Why is. it so much more important to deal with the victim's forgiveness than dealing with the abuser's deeds. Why is it so important that they keep the abuser in church, while kicking out the victim or isolating them?
It really doesn't help any religion. It self defeating. Yet, i see it time and again that the victim must forgive ie. Shut up. That it appears to be more important. The victim may not be telling anyone except the priest, but it is still the same.

I was listening to a forgiveness meditation CD today and it said something interesting. Repeatedly. It said "Just because I forgive does not mean I give the person permission to keep hurting me."

It had several different ways of saying this but the message was the same. Too often, people think forgiving lets the offender off the hook. That should never be the case. The offender should receive appropriate punishment for his/her misdeeds and, more importantly, they should never be allowed in a position where they can hurt you again. Forgiveness only means that you evict the person who hurt you from renting space in your head, your heart and your life. It's for you - to get them off your nerves permanently. But like so many other good ideas, it has been hijacked by people who think YOU forgiving THEM is their "get out of jail free" card. Or, like my FB page says "I may be big enough to forgive you but until further notice, I'm not stupid enough to trust you."

CA girl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The offender should
> receive appropriate punishment for his/her
> misdeeds and, more importantly, they should never
> be allowed in a position where they can hurt you again.

> Forgiveness only means that you evict the
> person who hurt you from renting space in your
> head, your heart and your life.

These two points exactly.

I agree with those who do not like the word "forgiveness."

For me, I struggled with feeling like a bad person because I cannot "forgive and forget" the terrible thing my exhusband did to my son that resulted in his grisly suicide attempt, followed by a psychotic break so severe he never recovered.

After years or wrestling, I have found peace in using the term "letting go." I visualize my feelings going into a basket under a hot air balloon and then see it going up, up into the heavens, finally becoming a dot. My anger and hatred represent a mother's love for her child, something I cannot deny and will never forgive--but I can rename it as my loyalty, my love for my child and watch it disappear into the sky.

Then I walk out of the meadow holding the hand of my child, now a man in his forties. He is still alive and there are good meals to eat and laughs to be had, a life together to live.

And that's not nothing.


Anagrammy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2013 11:56PM by anagrammy.

I had asked for a bit of additional data, hence the post below.

Perpetrators must be punished,
Damages restored as much as able.

Forgiveness frees the victim, as delineated by CA Girl.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2013 05:48PM by zenjamin.

Alot, but I am only going to point to the public law suit about that pedphile being sent out to babysit by parents who knew he was a sex offender and now that there is a civil law case apparently people are being flown out to stop people from testifying on the basis of forgiveness. It is in their public claims against the guy, his parents, several high counselors and the church. I think that if. Salt Lake had known about it, they would have thrown him in the deepest shark infested excommunication they could have because they do not want to have anything to do with pedophiles but....
I can't tell you how many times I have heard this. If you are sexually molested, you have a right to funds to help you get over the trauma at a minimum.

Cynicism to follow:

The victim is the easy market. They're easier to connect with and drag into your system. Using their damage as a target for marketing what the forgiveness you sell/control/provide keeps them in your loop. This means prestige, power, often money.

The abuser isn't seeking punishment, and without societal authority, it's very difficult to punish and not run afoul of the law yourself. The abuser generally doesn't care about what they did so you don't have a hook into that person. To gain them as a client/customer, you have to treat them lightly if you want them to grant you power in their lives or their money.

Thus it is usually only when an abuser breaks the law provably that they get punished.

The LDS church seems have the mindset that by not outing the abuser, they can tap into the abuser's money stream via tithing. The abuser goes along because tithing is less onerous than a guilty verdict.

Institution suffers much less damage if the victim is blamed.

your second paragraph contains so much insight, I can't believe it isn't spilling over into other posts. Well, it's spilling into this one. +1

Because it's good for you, because being bitter only hurts you and not the offender, because jesus won't forgive you if you don't forgive the a$$hole, and any other number of vague, unfounded, psychologically damaging claims.

I prefer to not even use the term forgive. It's better to let go of the past.

I have struggled to forgive people who have hurt me, including a sexual attack when I was a child. I beleive it is something I do for myself. It is NOT a 'get out of jail' card for the offender. They are as guilty and as in need of punishment as ever, I simply want to remove the pain from myself and not allow them any more power over me.

I think that someone refusing to testify against someone they have forgiven is RIDICULOUS!!! Forgiveness does NOT mean it never happened!!

I had this exact conversation with DH this weekend. His best friend (a TBM) was IMO a neglectful and verbally abusive husband/father. His wife finally divorced him after 25 years with a lot of emotional support from their daughters. He was angry about their supporting their mother and has been estranged from them ever since.

Well, now he's sick (probably dying) and wants their forgiveness (and their help). DH thinks they aren't being "Christian". I say forgiveness is their decision, but even if they do forgive him, they aren't obligated to include him in their lives again.

The perpetrator has no greater weapon than forgiveness. My father pounded me down into anxiety and self-loathing. He beat me up with fists and scorn. When I was big enough to fight back, he sent me away to a boy's ranch. He lied to me about my grandmother's estate, and then he shared the fortune with others. He was always hateful to me.

Then one day he demanded forgiveness. I was in my late forties by this time. I gave him no quarter. In my eyes he is damned.

I personally think 'forgiveness' is way over-rated and not always necessary goal. Forgiveness can work in certain situations but I think it carries way too much importance and human energy than it should.

I think carrying a grudge is a perfectly sane and healthy alternative than trying to contort oneself to forgive.

+1

Whatever the works for the victim is fine by me.

What's objectionable are demands that everyone must forgive to suit the perpetrator's needs.

BOTH are important!

Forgiveness is not about the perpetrator. Society (especially religion) tries to make us think that's what it's about, but the reality is they don't care or they wouldn't have done the harm to begin with.

What it is about is the victim letting go of the hurt. As long as you are holding on to the hurt and anger it drains your energy and takes from your life. When you let go it is like letting go of a heavy burden. BUT it should also involve trying to learn what the victim can do to prevent it from happening again. Not blame the victim, but more "how can I get stronger/smarter or whatever it takes so this never happens to me again." And that should almost certainly include not trusting the perpertrator again.