Why do we know that and don't have to repeat it over and over?

Yet, as Mormons we have to constantly repeat our testimonies and proclaim we "know".

Why does truth have to be repeated into us?

I don't know about you, but I don't think scientists constantly go around to each other saying "I KNOW abiogenesis is true, I KNOW evolution is true, I KNOW the Earth is 4.5 Billion years old." They don't have to, because they know that these theories hold water. They have evidence. They don't have to try and convince themselves using emotions or someone else's personal witness, they are simply convinced by the rigorously tested and peer reviewed empirical evidence.

They go on the evidence. They don't go around saying "I KNOW
IT'S TRUE" because if the evidence changes then they will adjust
their belief to fit the data. Just the opposite happens in
Mormonism. If you show that a scientific theory that has been
widely believed, is wrong, they give you a Nobel Prize. If you
show with solid evidence that a religious belief that the Church
has widely taught is wrong, they excommunicate you.

"If the Führer orders it, two and two makes five!"

--Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring


Mormons are trying to remind themselves that they aren't brainwashed. But they are...

Excellent reference. In Nazi Germany if you questioned the Fuhrer you were shot. In TSCC if you question the canonized doctrine you are excommunicated, which is interpreted by TBMs as death.

I love this point. It's so simple and yet so telling.

I would love to read some detailed analysis of this phenomenon. Why is it that if we repeatedly vocalize something like this, we convinced of it ourselves? Or is it because we hear others say they know that reinforces it in us?

It sickens me that I've gone through so much of my life just feeding of some giant brainwash orgyfest, and that church practices blatantly reinforce the brainwashing.

Perhaps more to the point, no other church uses repetitious testimonies or requires members to testify to each other. Imagine sitting in an Episcopal service hearing the congregation recite "I know the Anglican Church is the one true church," "I know The Common Book of Prayer is true" or sitting in a Methodist church listening to tearful testimonies of "I know the Methodist Church is true" or "I know John Wesley is the prophet."

Because their only "proof" is their collective "knowledge"

When we left the church I had a conversation with my TBM mom. She asked how our kids took the news that we were resigning. I told her that we took each of our three kids and met with them one-on-one to have age appropriate conversations about us leaving.

I explained to my mom that we told our 11 year old, "it's like we were always taught that 2+2=5. And we believed that was true....our entire lives. And, now we found out that's not true and that 2+2 really equals 4. And it's easy to realize the truth and test it when you've learned a little bit about math."


My mom stayed pretty collected actually. I'm sure she was dying inside though.


In hindsight, I guess I should've just prayed and got confirmation by the holy ghost that even though all logic says 2+2=4, I should simply "doubt my doubts". Oh brother.

2+2=4? Why limit yourself to such stifled black and white thinking? You people who are so into facts and truth and stuff make me sick. The Celestial reward is for those of us who think outside the box. We know that 2+2 can be anything the prophet wants it to be. You need to repent and then you'll see.

+1

When the prophet speaks, the addition has been done! Even when the sum is dumb, it's done.

Math teacher: the kicker to your point is...we also do not need apologists to defend our mathematical equations. 2 + 2 = 4 and no one protests or rebuttals the doctrine.

Its just there, its simple, and its true. No need to set up a math apologetics website to defend the math!

...but in case you're doubting or a "2+2=5" lurker.. http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/as2446/224.pdf

Wait. You have never been to the regular "gravity testimony" meetings that are held each sunday to make sure people don't stop believing in gravity and fly off of the planet?

truth demonstrates itself. It needs no apologists.

Actually, not always.

Two clouds plus two clouds equals one cloud.

Two quarters plus two quarters equals one dollar or ten dimes or five dimes and ten nickels or ...

Two rams plus two ewes plus time equals a herd of sheep.

2+2 = 4 only under specific circumstances and definitions. The formula does not always describe reality. The basic problem with Mormonism is that much of it doesn't describe reality, at all, ever.

So yeah, stick with the analogy, but keep in the back of your mind that it is flawed.

At least that's what it comes to in Base 4. Maybe they're just working in a differently based numerical system. (Yeah, right.)

THANKS Math teacher - a refreshing post. And so true.....
I KNOW IT IS TRUE........kidding.
for Dave the atheist - I have wondered about that apologist thing for quite a while. Do other religions have apologists? Yes some do.
The name APOLOGIST implies that they are sorry about something. But it really means to come to the defense of whatever you are the apologist of. It does seem that Mos have way more apologists than other religions though. Maybe I am just more aware of them because of this board.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2013 04:55AM by enoughenoch19.

"Are you such a dreamer
To put the world to rights
I'll stay home forever
Where two and two always makes a five".....Radiohead

.....and everything Radiohead do is right!