I was talking to my cousin (who I am trying to drop hints to of reading materrials etc.) to help her get out. We were talking about FLDS and mainstream LDS. I told her one of the big differences is that the FLDS do their polygamy continually (before AND after death) while the mainstream LDS do their polygamy after death mostly. There are some who practice polygamy before death. My cousin about came unglued.
She has always viewed herself and other mainstreamers as being VERY DIFFERENT from FLDS. I guess that was a bit of a jolt. She couldn't really deny it but it was obvious that she has not thought of it like this before. WOW! I thought that was just a given. It is shocking how much informtaion is just sitting there which has NOT BEEN THOUGHT OF LIKE THAT BEFORE. Like those upside down stars at the temple. Most people walk past them without even thinking about them being Satanic symbols. We need to WAKE UP as a society and stop walking around in a daze. The brainwashing is so thorough/pitiful.

As a kid I attended meetings for several polygamous mormon groups.

Here's what I saw:

They used the same hymns as mainstream mormons.

They say the same kinds of prayers including the sacrament prayer.

They tell the same kinds of faith promoting stories about early saints and mormon prophets.

They use the same basic scripture but still include the Journal of Discourses.

They believe in priesthood, revelation, heavenly father, Jesus, the holy ghost, garments, what they call high standards, the preexistence, eternal progression, Joeseph Smith, Brigham Young, the crickets, the pioneers, and the golden plates.

They use all of the same unique mormon phrases and terminology.

These groups have more in common with mainstream Mormons than the different Jewish factions have with Orthodox Jews or the different Catholic peoples and the Pope.

Some of these polygamists still attend regular Mormon wards but stay quiet about their polygamous lives.

The main difference is they still practice polygamy in their daily earthly lives, not just on paper or in the hereafter.

In the non-Mormon world outside the Zion Curtain most people don't know much about Mormons but the one thing they do know is that Mormons were polygamists. It is very interesting to see how the modern LDS have completely erased and re-written their own history from the minds of the membership.

Yes, it baffles me too.

I'm a direct descendent of Lorenzo Snow. My ancestors kept a lot of journals. I remember conversations with grandparents. Years ago it was all an accepted part of conversation.

Not any more.

Mainstream mormons today are unaware of what early mormonism was all about. (Or, what it still is under its current marketing veneer.)

I just had this same conversation with my dad. He didn't like the fact that I brought up that Mormons still believe in polygamy in the celestial kingdom. My dad is 70 years old. He's been a Mormon his WHOLE life and he's never thought of it like that. I hope I put a spark into his head. Unfortunately, I think the spark will die.

The other mind blower for them is that the polygamist communities believe in Joseph Smith, the First Vision, the Book of Mormon, the great apostasy and the restored priesthood, and a living prophet.

They like to think they have the same belief system as their Christian friends and neighbors, the Catholics, the Baptists, the Methodist, with a more full restored gospel. The reality is that they have far more common beliefs with the communes of Southern Utah than their mainstream Christian friends.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2013 02:46AM by gentlestrength.

gentlestrength Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The other mind blower for them is that the
> polygamist communities believe in Joseph Smith,
> the First Vision, the Book of Mormon, the great
> apostasy and the restored priesthood, and a living
> prophet.
>
> They like to think they have the same belief
> system as their Christian friends and neighbors,
> the Catholics, the Baptists, the Methodist, with a
> more full restored gospel. The reality is that
> they have far more common beliefs with the
> communes of Southern Utah than their mainstream
> Christian friends.

After I pointed this out to my father, he claimed that Warren Jeff was the same sect as the Community of Christ. I had to explain to him the difference between the RLDS and the FLDS. He had no idea that the CoC used to be known as the RLDS. He also thought Warren Jeffs was part of the RLDS sect. Of course this comes from a man who doesn't know ANYTHING that's going on with the LDS church since he hasn't been to church in a while. I know more than he does and I've been out for years.

Back in 1989, I was taught right in YW by my Beehive advisor (the crazy one that thought Satan broke her washing machine) that plural marriage would be practiced in the CK. This was a lesson right out of the YW teachers' manual. We were told in this lesson that if we were the 1st wife, that we had the right to deny our husbands additional wives, & that it would be perfectly OK to do this. I was disgusted & creeped out by the whole thing. Some of the other girls (they were mostly not Molly Mo TBMs) actually thought the fact that they could deny their husbands additional wives was very cool.

Tristan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back in 1989, I was taught right in YW by my
> Beehive advisor (the crazy one that thought Satan
> broke her washing machine) that plural marriage
> would be practiced in the CK. This was a lesson
> right out of the YW teachers' manual. We were told
> in this lesson that if we were the 1st wife, that
> we had the right to deny our husbands additional
> wives, & that it would be perfectly OK to do this.
> I was disgusted & creeped out by the whole thing.
> Some of the other girls (they were mostly not
> Molly Mo TBMs) actually thought the fact that they
> could deny their husbands additional wives was
> very cool.

That was something my dad brought up about his mother. I told him grandpa is going to have two wives in Heaven and he said his "real" mom would get the choice of whether or not my stepgrandma is grandpa's second wife. Then he says he thinks it's fair that men can have more wives but women can't have more men. This he says after denying that celestial marriage includes polygamy. He just doesn't get it.

He was also adament that the church wouldn't change their treatment of women not being able to hold the priesthood. I told him I think that's going to happen after gay men can. He said neither would happen. I said women were able to do more things during Emma's time. Look it up.

There is a show on tonight "Breaking the Faith" on Tthe Learning Channel, TLC at 10. It is about the FDLS and young folks fleeing it. The FDLS is pure Mormonism the way Smith and Brigham Young taught it.

I sincerely hope that they get into that they follow Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith had 34 wives and was jailed at age 39. Warren Jeffs had 55 and was jailed at age 51. Warren Jeffs is the same as Joseph Smith.

Have your cousin watch that show after you tell her these things.

Enoughenoch19,

You are a genius!What a clever way of putting things.Bet it got your cousin thinking.

Well, today I spoke with her again to tell her about the TLC show "Breaking the Faith." She thinks the polygamists in So. Utah/Arizona are awful. I hope she continues to watch it and I hope she does notice the similarities. I really sincerely hope that the mainstream TSCC DID NOT pay off TLC to not mention the serious similar beliefs FLDS and LDS share. One big check from LD$ Inc and TLC could be out of business. (and the people continue to clean the toilets).....what a sad situation.
Thanks for the genuis comment, but that was my mom's. She really hated polygamy and mentioned this HUGE fly in TSCC's ointment with regularity. When her sister (my aunt) got a divorce, she hounded her until she got a Temple divorce just so she wouldn't be forced to be married to the guy she divorced after she died. My mom said just in case it really worked that way (which she doubted) but she wanted my aunt out of the polygamy even after death. I am going to start a new thread that was one of my mom's philosophies.
I do want to say that my cousin IS THINKING. I can tell now (for several months) that she is avoiding certain topics of conversation (sometimes with me but also with other people). Last year for CHristmas, someone gave her a picture of all 16 of the prophets (I would gag to death with a pic like that but I digress). Anyway, it is a created picture taken from pictures of the prophets but then assembled into a picture so it looks like they are all in the same room with some coming down a few stairs. It looks like they were are PRESENT when someone took their picture. They are all dressed in white and their are columns in the background.
Well when she showed it to me, I was shocked that someone would think she'd want a picture like that. But, my cousin was very upset by something I said (completely innocently BTW). I noticed that they were coming down some steps near the columns and I mentioned that it looked like they were in some sort of ancient Rome scene of some sort. She got real red in the face and then said "OMG this is in the Celstial Room of the Temple. Nobody should have a picture on sale with this room in it." My cousin then called the person who had given it to her and they told her they got it on Ebay. I told her that the entire Temple ceremonies were on you tube. She said that that was impossible because cameras were not allowed in there. I told her someone managed to sneak one in. She just couldn't believe it. She said she would see if it was really there.
After a few days, she told me she had seen the pn line temple ceremony. I was expecting her to say that these were made up (created) but she admitted that they were exactly the ceremonies. Then she said that they (TSCC) would have to change them now since people knew about them! Wow! All these months later and they have not changed anything about them and that is bothering her. She has little doubts which she is afriad to face right now. I know her well and I can tell when her doubts and scarring her some. She knows I'm am here to talk when she wants to. I love her so much. She is like my sister. She has been brainwashed. She is a kind sweet person, not like some TBMs you meet. She also has a hubby who is a VT etc. I thinking rocking the boat is a bit scary for her now too. But, she is thinking. Her daughter in law in black and she knows full well that at one point in time, her son and daughter would have been killed on the spot because of their inter- racial relationship. My cousin and her son are white. We are a Scandinavian family (so white we are downright delightsome....glow in the dark!). She knows I am a total apostate. She knows that I think the temple ceremonies are frightening and evil. She still talks to me everyday. That alone speaks volumes....associating with a serious apostate. But, I am patient. I just want to see her happy and I know she would be if she could unload this albatross around her neck. Any other church or no church would be better for her. Anyway, that is my two cents and then some. Any suggestions to help her? Let me know.
I know that sometimes she gets a bit upset because I learn someone on this board about TSCC and tell her BEFORE she has heard anything about it. For example, I mentioned quite some time ago that JS was into Masonic stuff and that he was high up in the Masons and that there were Masonic decor on the Temple grounds. She said nothing but the next day or so when I talked to her, she had checked on it and told me I was right about that. I was first to tell her that they were lowering the missionary age. She thought the church was wrong to do that because of the maturity level. Anyway, your thoughts are welcome.