So...when (not if, it's inevitable at this point, especially with the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution) gay marriage becomes legally recongnized nationwide, how will TSCC handle this? Right now it's a "if you're gay that's fine, be celibate because of the law of chastity", but if suddenly gays are allowed to marry and be recognized legally everywhere, it would be sex between a married couple, which is completely allowed for TBM.
And of course, the first rebuttal will be "The church just won't recognize the marriage"...
BUT, lets look at the 12th Article of Faith:
"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

So if it's the law of the land that gay marriage is legal, and TBM follow their own articles of faith, it's a bit of a quagmire they find themselves in, no?

TSCC may eventually accept gay marriages, who knows. But your reasoning is completely flawed.

Gay marriage is legal in other countries, but not accepted by TSCC where there are members. TSCC position is that gay men are violating the law of chastity even if they are legally married.

Many things are legal which were once illegal in the US (cohabitation, alcohol, porn, sodomy, pot -- in some jurisdictions) that are not "allowed" by TSCC.

TSCC might change its position on gay marriages eventually but it won't be because they can no longer "enforce" the law of chastity on its members because gay marriage is legal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 04:29PM by otedge.

I meant gay to mean men and women both, I didn't mean to exclude lesbians, it was an umbrella term. Incorrect to use it that way?

& not gays in general when you said -

"TSCC position is that gay men are violating the law of chastity even if they are legally married."

Personally, I don't know what's correct anymore. I usually tend to say "gay men & women" or "gay people" or "gay individuals" nowadays. & a good friend of mine who's a young woman says that she's "gay" as opposed to a "lesbian", which from what I've seen is kind of old fashioned but still a used term.

Not being gay, and having no close gay friends, I'm not sure what's correct, I meant no offense if I inadvertanely caused it. Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Whatever, at some point TSCC is going to run afoul of the law of the land which is in direct contradiction to the 12th AOF. As a previous reply pointed out, in other countries it's already legal, but that's not the country that the headquarters reside so they can potentially say they set policy based on home-country rules. But if USA makes it legal...what do they do? Break one of the big 13 rules, or cave and reverse policy?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 09:54PM by serslyqustning1981.

They are too homophobic, & it will take them 50 years or more.

If sticking to an anti-gay marriage stance as a part of the doctrine makes Mormonism a "hiss and a by-word" (whatever that means) among other religions and the general population in the USA, I think you'll see a new revelation come about pretty fast. But if the other conservative religions hang together on this issue and support Mormonism on their stance, nothing will change, at least not soon. Popular opinion and money speak the loudest at LDS, Inc. headquarters.

Cali Sally Wrote:
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> Popular opinion and money speak the loudest at LDS, Inc. headquarters.

Bingo.

Meh. They're between a rock and a hard place. Again. They'll rationalize, harumph and dissemble. Eventually, it'll be like polygamy, racism. We don't believe we ever taught that. This one (gay marriage) seems like a real horse pill for them, though. I want to watch how they handle it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 05:27PM by rationalist01.

"We've always been at war with Eastasia"

Exactly

The 80 year old leaders haven't thought that far...if gay marriage becomes widely accepted, what then? if a gay person is married, what then? is it immoral?

my guess there will be push for change or softening, maybe legally too. it will be hard cause the precious doctrine of forever families and godhood changes.

The rationale that I was told by a stake president is that sex within gay marriage situations is still considered against the law of chastity because the church recognises marriage is ONLY between a man and woman, and that sexual relations only within the bounds of such marriages are recognised as divinely acceptable.

Meaning that any type of sex outside of hetrosexual marriage, including same sex within lawful marriage, is deemed against the law of chastity as neither of the partners are engaged in martial sex with a person of the OPPOSITE sex.

obiwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The rationale that I was told by a stake president
> is that sex within gay marriage situations is
> still considered against the law of chastity
> because the church recognises marriage is ONLY
> between a man and woman, and that sexual relations
> only within the bounds of such marriages are
> recognised as divinely acceptable.
>
> Meaning that any type of sex outside of
> hetrosexual marriage, including same sex within
> lawful marriage, is deemed against the law of
> chastity as neither of the partners are engaged in
> martial sex with a person of the OPPOSITE sex.


If that's the way they intend to keep it then they'll have to amend the wording of the law of chastity in the temple ceremony which says:
"We are instructed to give unto you the law of Chastity, which is that you shall have no sexual relations except with your husband or wife to whom you are legally and lawfully wedded."
It makes no mention of gender.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 07:08PM by yorkie.

From what I've heard/read, they seem to change whatever they need to to fit the situation of the moment, denying the past as if it never existed. So I suppose it'll be just one more instence of this?

When the lawsuits become too costly as they did in the 60's & 70's, there will be a new revelation.

Statistically, Gays have a higher than average disposable income. So....I'm guessing TSCC's take could be around 20% with tithing, fast offerings, building funds, temple funds, yadda yadda. And don't forget the merchandising. There could be a whole new line of sexier garments! And a book by each apostle describing the day of revelation in The Holy of Holies when God appeared in a giant rainbow and said......
"MERCHANDISING, PEOPLE! I wanna see Marky Mark in the new undies."

off topic but not really, I wonder what a gay marriage temple ceremony would be like

lush Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> off topic but not really, I wonder what a gay
> marriage temple ceremony would be like


FaaaaaAAAAAAAbulous!

otedge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lush Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > off topic but not really, I wonder what a gay
> > marriage temple ceremony would be like
>
>
> FaaaaaAAAAAAAbulous!

haha!