http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1092220

I have been admonished to ignore an experience that doesn't suit me, but I will take it one step further. I will spout my opinion like it is exmo gospel.

My family has suffered greatly because of Mormonism. My mother was abused by her father, my sisters by their brother, and another brother abused his daughter. By my reckoning I'm lucky that the only injury that I took was self hatred and suicidal early teens because my mother was dealing with her, not insubstantial issues, and my father was desperately trying to deal with being a single father in a very fucked up family. I am grateful everyday that I didn't have to deal with the hell that my sisters and mother had to deal with.

I am not unaware of the influence that LDS inc had on the severe dysfunction in my family. My father in his inability to handle the situation was counseled by his LDS overlords to keep in in-house. The same council that was given to my grandmother after she found out the hell that my grandfather had perpetuated on his daughters. My brother did not pay for his actions, to the extent that he was still accepted to Ricks College, where he was promptly threatened with expulsion for being a horrible person. My father once again on bad council talked Ricks off of the edge and essentially covered up for my brother again. My other brother displayed some very bad tendencies as a teen and again it was covered up at the behest of some very bad LDS council. After his daughter was born he reverted back to being a horrible person and hurt his daughter. He was allowed by the LDS controlled judicial system to essentially walk away. He is now remarried and my whole family besides me took some very bad council and are "loving" him to repentance. For many years I had a great fear that I would hurt my daughters only because the history was so damning.

LDS inc is just as responsible as the perpetrators for giving bad council. My father is just as responsible as the perpetrators for taking the council. The perpetrators were enabled by the bad council and a history of abuse was continued because of bad council. To be clear I am not talking about hitting or yelling at I am talking about rape.

Now a poster comes here and says don't fight it respect it. In no uncertain terms I say here and now I do not nor will I ever respect LDS inc. My wife, daughters and sons are part of it, my children are still young enough to be at home. I owe it to my wife and daughters to tell them the great harm that can come from LDS inc. I owe it to my sons to be a better father than my father was. I owe it to my loved ones to not hold my tongue, to shout from the rooftops. LDS inc will hurt you more than you can imagine. I love them very much and I understand their beliefs regarding god I used to have them. I however cannot sit idly by and expose them to such a pernicious evil. I just cannot hold my tongue.

This is my experience, LDS inc for years taught my family that silence and acceptance were the best policy. They are wrong, live and let live, agree to disagree, these ideas are inherently disrespectful and are designed to protect thoughts not people.

I apologize if this is a bit jumbled, I am a bit pissed right now.

Nate

Nate,

It is not "jumbled" at all. It is a compelling story.

Thank you for posting it.

Excellent post. I couldn't agree more. Agreeing to disagree is just masking the problem, or worse, allowing it to continue by turning a blind eye. And Mormons are not really capable of agreeing to disagree anyway. If you take the high road, they take that as weakness.

So glad you were strong enough to handle what was thrown your way, jacob. Your kids are lucky.

Not jumbled but very lucid and well done.

I'm so sorry for the harm your family suffered. I'm sorry the victims are still dealing with pain and the culprits didn't get their full due.

I hope posting this helps you heal a bit and warns others to watch out for these kinds of horrific problems.

none of which should have been tolerated. The LDS leaders failed your family, and probably even broke the law by not reporting the abuse, thus enabling it to continue. There is no excuse for that.

That said, SuzieQ#1 comments were geared to a completely different situation.

Clearly, what she said didn't apply in your situation. I hope you never let your kids near your brother or father. I think the harm of the church's approach to dealing with abuse needs to be made public. Some things will never change until people speak up. Part of healing from abuse is to have it acknowledged.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate your kind words. However, I'm not sure there really is a difference. If we were to analyze each situation we could work our way into a situation where this that or the other thing didn't apply. Really the important thing is that LDS inc causes harm, why should anyone be quiet about that.

SQ#1 had a saint of a spouse as do I, but my spouse deserves more from me than a truce. She deserves to know and understand my deepest fears and greatest hopes. I know her's, I know my children's, why shouldn't they know mine?

BTW, when my asshole brother was discovered I traveled up to visit him in jail prior to the trial. I wanted him to know that I had advised his wife to leave him and that he should not fight it. I advised him to admit his guilt and accept his fate. He accepted my council and to my extreme dismay was let of easy because of it. When he announced that he was going to remarry, my wife and went to visit him and his fiance. My wife took her out and I took my brother out. My wife explained the extent of the abuse to his fiance and I told my brother that if he hurt her I would kill him. We haven't spoken since. His wife and my wife are however great friends, something my wife cultivates because we both fear for her.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2013 11:29PM by jacob.

The "horrible things" that happen in families are so often devastating and life altering.

I'll go on record as supporting leaving (or leaving it alone), any kind of relationship that is toxic/ abusive: physically, emotionally, criminal, etc.

My husband was not familiar with the term: toxic relationship so I explained it to him this way. You know the person is toxic if you come back from time with them and...YOU get sick! Remember that headache, upset stomach, feeling upset? Well. That's a toxic relationship. (I know, this is a over simplification but it made a very clear point!)

There are instances when I highly advocate a "time out" and distance when there are toxic situations. Distance is often best in a couple of states away!

I also support using the Domestic Violence Centers in your area, reporting any and all abusive situations to law enforcement as soon as possible. And GET OUT if you have to leave with the clothes on your back. Use law enforcement as an escort to get your personal belongings, file a TRO when indicated also! DOCUMENT everything that has been going on even if you think it is not important. Let law enforcement sort it out.

In this regard, I am a child advocate. I have spent several years as a court appointed monitor (in two counties in CA), for supervised visitation with the non-custodial parent. I have been a witness in court custody cases.

In my case, "agreeing to disagree" was a suggestion from my husband that respected our differences and still maintained our long term marriage relationship. I was in my late 50's and he was in his late 60's when I changed my mind about my beliefs.

It was the honorable thing to do. It was also about not interfering with the other person's beliefs as a courtesy. It was done out of kindness and harmony. (Had a rough start but smoothed it out quickly.) Clearly, that kind of pact is not even feasible in many circumstances.

I learned that I needed to separate what was about me and what was about someone else. That meant that I respect my husband and family members and friends rights to their many different religious beliefs while not believing in any of them. I don't ever have to agree with their beliefs to have a meaningful relationship. Some of my friendships go back 60 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2013 09:11PM by SusieQ#1.

I could make a list as long as your arm of people who have been sexually abused by PH men, then told to forgive and shut up.

It's the standard advice that comes from the top. They have done their best to keep quiet anything and everything that might sully the mormon image.

The end result has been victims that are re-victimized over and over again.

I've known many women who have been shunned by their own families for speaking out about their abuse at the hand of Mormon Ph.

Let her rip.

If more people would assertively speak their minds we wouldn't have to deal with this abusive cult.

ditto ddt

Imagine what Mormonism would be like today if there had never met any resistance from outside or within?


Polygamy would still be here.

Blood atonement would still be in practice.

Death oaths would still be taken in the Temple.

Blacks would never have received the priesthood.

The church would govern through a political theocracy.

We would all be dressed like pioneers with full-length garments.

Wives could be reassigned to other men.

Young women would be thought of like cattle.

The list goes on and on.


Mormonism today would be just as strict as the Taliban or the FLDS church - maybe even worse. The only reason that there is any degree of civility in Mormonism today is because of the past resistance of members and the Federal Government.

The church never self-restrains, it only reacts to overpowering pressure. That's a fact.

Check out the Anabaptist back in Germany during the 1500s.

That is what unfettered Morgism would look like.

I commend the caring you have given to your family. It takes courage to stand up to the mormoney church and you are showing it. To me what needs and is worthy of respect is treating people with kindness. When the opposite exists, we have an obligation to speak out against this action.

When someone asks you if you have been offended..........boy do have the thing to read to them..go for it.