I just read this and I am horrified.

The BOM is true.

It seems impossible but his proof is undeniable.

I'm going to call my local bishop so I can grovel and fellate myself in front of him as my penance.

http://www.studioetquoquefide.com/2013/11/book-of-mormon-archaeology-and-agenda.html

I'm walking in the shadow of the blues.

Math joke: How does an engineer prove all odd numbers are prime?

A: 3,5,7, 9 oops not prime so is experimental error and can be tossed out, 11, 13 that's enough for a proof.

How does a mormon prove the same thing? A: 3

I think I need to revise my joke.

Q: How does a mormon prove all odd numbers are prime?
A: 15

But you say, 15 = 5 * 3 which proves it's not a prime number, and mormons will say so what. It's an odd number and that proves the point.

That's the ticket.

I've watched the gyrations of the apologists since I first discovered RFM (and I'm really grateful for those who dissected it for me; I steal from them regularly and shamelessly, and I invite them to do the same with my material).

They claim that the lack of evidence isn't sufficient to overcome the testimony of the historical validity and inspiration of the BOM. Additionally, they attack those scholars who don't have such a testimony, claiming they are unqualified to speak to the subject.

I'll invite anyone who wants to point to any publications by any of the individuals named who've published anything in legitimate peer-reviewed publications defending the presence of Hebrews anywhere in the pre-Columbian Western Hemisphere; it doesn't happen, and BYU claims from men like Sorenson are the laughingstock of mainstream academics.

Speaking of Sorenson...

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon606.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2013 10:45PM by SL Cabbie.

"But that they do believe ought to give those who are confident of its falseness a bit of a pause – what do these experts, who probably know more about both Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon than you or I – know that gives them cause to believe? You can get a taste of that by reading their published works on the topic. Their lives and their lifeworks make it abundantly evident that we need not go down the path of Ferguson. If they have cause to believe, then surely we can too. The agenda-driven narrative of the critics simply is not true."

I detest the "we should believe because there are smarter people that do" argument.

The author listed 11 individuals with advanced degrees that still believe in the BoM. These people have first hand knowledge of Mesoamerica and still hold to their belief.

The fact that they believe doesn't sway me one bit. Just listen to the Michael Coe Mormon stories podcast, he gives an unbiased opinion on the supposed BoM evidence. Surprise, there is none. I believe most, if not all, non-TBM Mesoamerican experts fall in the Coe camp.

I just can't take the word of a TBM Mesoamerican expert. His expertise is compromised by his association with TSCC. He begins his investigation into the BoM archeology from the assumption that it's already true. I can't trust any of his/her conclusions because of their bias.

Because no academic has ever wasted their life on a wild goose chase.

And what about all the experts that don't believe in god? Is that proof positive for atheism?

Ridiculous.

When I grow up I want to be a Mormon appologist!!! Who chooses this path!? He is spending some of the prime years of his life attempting to defend the indefensible.

He never even gets into the FACTS that directly contradict the book of mormon, he completely sidesteps polyandry. Anything that is remotely difficult is pushed aside and he seems to just spiral into his philosophies about the pointlessness of defending these things from "anti-mormons". If that's the case then why deal in apologetics in the first place?

Three words: hard to watch

"...who probably know more about both Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon than you or I – know that gives them cause to believe?"

They have a mortgage, kids to put through college and a TBM wife who will poison them if they ever deny the faith and lose their 6 figure salary teaching the dreck.

M. Wells Jakeman, BYU archeologist
Gareth Lowe, BYU archeologist
Bruce W. Warren, BYU archeologist
John L. Sorenson, BYU archeologist
John E. Clark, BYU archeologist
V. Garth Norman, BYU archeologist
F. Richard Hauck, Founder of the Book of Mormon Archaeological Research Institute
Brant A. Gardner, Software Consultant??
Mark Alan Wright, BYU professor of religious studies
Allen J Christenson, BYU literature professor
Joseph L. Allen, founder of Book of Mormon Tours

What do these 11 all have in common? With the apparent exception of Brant A. Gardner (I'm not entirely sure what he currently does for a living), they all get their paychecks either directly from the Morg (the 8 BYU professors) or from Mormons based on them believing the BoM is true. Agenda-Driven Narratives indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2013 11:18PM by nickname.

One of our most brilliant gentleman here corresponded with him for a time, but he reports Gardner ended the correspondence.

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of our most brilliant gentleman here
> corresponded with him for a time, but he reports
> Gardner ended the correspondence.

I once had Brant Gardner in my office in his capacity as a software consultant. Also present was another individual who was a former body guard for Spencer Kimball.

Gardner was spouting some nonsense about his mesoamerican research which I thought was idiotic, but couldn't muster the interest to listen closely. The former body guard, ex-bishop, retired police sergeant on the other hand, went ballistic. His devout, yet simplistic "testimony" was not up to the apoligetic bullshit Gardner was spewing and raising his right arm to the square, he commanded Gardner to cease his blasphmemy in the name of god.

I thought I was going to have a stroke trying to stiffle my hysterical laughter.

All the degrees in the world don't mean a damn when all you're doing is butressing a crumbling mausoleum.

Sterling

Bernie Madoff. He was a smart guy and knows more about investing than most, but that didn't stop him from fraud.

As soon as any one of the 11 digs up the Temple of Salomon I'll give credence.

ddt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm going to call my local bishop so I can grovel
> and fellate myself in front of him as my penance.


You're either very flexible or you meant flagellate. ;-)

I'm hung like a Tapir.

My porn name is Mandingo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_hDvnM_xao

Oh myyyyy!

Some times ya just gotta scratch where it itches. A 5th appendage can sure be handy.

OK. Maybe a baby Tapir.

That thing could put an eye out.

It is easy to see why the Nephites ate all the Jaredite horses and rode Tapirs!

Why don't any of the books in the library in the background have any titles? Is this some kind of statement about this article? I wonder......

Several cats starved to death while I read this crap. I could of saved them.

Which BOM is true? The one translated from golden plates that Mrs. Harris hid? Or the one translated from a rock found in a well? The one that says the righteous lamanites will turn white? Or the one that says they will turn pure? The one that says there was no death before the fall (6000yrs ago) AND that the cracks in the rocks were made 2000yrs ago? The one that says Jesus is God or the one that says Jesus is the son of God? The one with the chapter headings written by Bruce McKonkiehead or the one that says those headings were part of the original translation? I just love to ask these questions! Haven't heard any answers yet.

So in the first paragraph he writes: "There are a lot of problems with the way the critics like to tell the story. For one, it should be born in mind that Ferguson was not a professional archaeologist, and that he did not have advanced training in the matter. He was at best an amateur archaeologist with enough passion and enthusiasm to establish the New World Archaeological Foundation."

Then, in the third paragraph he brings up LDS apologist Brant Gardner, who is not a professional archaeologist and has limited advanced training in the matter (I bet he is sorry now that he didn't finish his PhD).

How these apologists' heads don't explode, I'll never know...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2013 09:03AM by rt.

ddt Wrote, in part:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm going to call my local bishop so I can grovel
> and fellate myself in front of him as my penance.
>
===============================================

Can I watch that?

I envy you your spine! Mine don't bend that far!

If the most unqualified janitor in central America discovered proof that the BoM was true, and that proof was either self-evident and/or validated by scholars, I'd believe it without considering the qualifications of the one making the discovery.

I don't care about qualifications, I care about facts. I don't care if there are a million qualified archaeologists searching, it is far more telling to look at what they are finding: *nothing*.

The more qualified men are looking, the more glaring the fact that they are finding nothing becomes. I'm surprised TSCC hasn't swept all BYU archaeology programs under the rug.

I love it where he says the REAL archeologists have a "more sophisticated understanding of the limitations of archeology and thus have more tempered expectations of what kind of evidence it can produce."

In other words, they can't find much that might fit the BoM, so they can cherry-pick better...?

Basically. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Or maybe not.

Was it just me or was this article just a bunch of babble? So what if Ferguson was an amateur archealogist who didn't prove anything? No professional archealogist has proven anything either...but they do seem to go far in DISPROVING it. I swear to Gawd I grow dumber just reading any "academic" discussion written by TBMs.

Two things. First off he never refutes the FACT that neither Ferguson nor the other 11 have found absolutely NO archaeological evidence for the BOM. His argument is based on his assertion that they have meso-american archaeological experience yet are still faithful. NOT that there is any actual archaeological evidence. To which the only proper response is "so the fvck what?".

Second the entire post is an "argument from authority" logical fallacy.

What an idiot.

I take it that you are joking. But in case you're not I haven't seen a single archeological proof for the BoM anywhere ever. Unless they find what BoM predicts: Evidence of a widespread advanced Iron Age civilization that grew old world crops, herded old world animals and rode on horses, actual real-size chariots e.t.c. from wihin the BoM timeframe they have nothing. Without massive amounts of such findings, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe in a silly book of retarded tall-tales.