http://972mag.com/woman-fined-140-a-day-for-refusing-to-circumcise-son/82441/

She is being fined by the Rabbinical Court in her area. She and her husband are fighting about the circumcision during a heated divorce.

The court found in the husband's favor. She will be appealing.

"“We have witnessed for some time now public and legal struggles against the brit milah in many countries in Europe and in the United States,” the judges wrote. “The public in Israel has stood as one man [sic] against these trends, seeing them as yet another aspect of displays of anti-Semitism that must be combatted. How will the world react if even here the issue of circumcision is given to the discretion of any person, according to their own beliefs?”

Religious courts in Israel hold complete sway over all matrimonial issues, including divorce. An appeal to the Haifa District Court by the woman was turned down, and the woman said the only resort left now is an appeal to the Supreme Court."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2013 03:19PM by Senoritalamanita.

It is also illegal for a Jew to marry a non-Jew in Israel.

pigsinzen Wrote:
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> It is also illegal for a Jew to marry a non-Jew in
> Israel.

Yes, so they have to go out of the country to get married. If they do go out of the country to get married (can be anywhere, so long as it is NOT in Israel and the marriage IS legal in the place where it is created), the marriage WILL be recognized as legal in Israel.

But it is also illegal for a Jew to marry a Jew if this combination of people is not allowed to be married under Jewish law, and there are MANY different everyday situations where this occurs.

Example: A Jew with a Jewish mother but a non-Jewish father is a Jew under Jewish law.

But: a Jew with a Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother is NOT a Jew under Jewish law, even if the person has been brought up Jewish and is an observantly practicing Jew.

These two people cannot go through a legal marriage together in Israel unless the "non-Jewish" partner converts to Judaism under ORTHODOX Jewish rabbinical supervision and approval...and it is TOUGH to get converted to Judaism in Israel because both Chief Rabbis (one Sephardi; one Ashkenazi) are united in their demand that daily standards of lifetime observance be at a level that American Jews consider way ultra-Orthodox and excessive. I've read stories written by people who did go through this process and it makes conversion to Judaism in other countries look like "nothing."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2013 03:53PM by tevai.

Senoritalamanita Wrote:
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> Religious courts in Israel hold complete sway over
> all matrimonial issues, including divorce.

Yup!!!

For example, those who want to marry but are forbidden by [Orthodox] Jewish law to marry the person they want to marry (for any number of reasons), have to temporarily leave Israel in order to marry under foreign auspices. (Cyprus is one of the traditional places such Israeli couples go to in order to get married.) They then return to Israel with a legal marriage which is recognized under the civil law of Israel.

There is widespread support in Israel for matters like marriage, divorce, adoption, and who can be buried in what cemetery to be removed from the total domination of the [extremely right-wing] Orthodox Jewish POLITICAL establishment, but so far, all efforts have failed.

The fight goes on.

[To clarify: matters such as marriage, divorce, adoption, and cemetery burial are under the total domination of religious authorities in Israel. If you are (recognized under Jewish law) a Jew, this would be Jewish. If you are Muslim, this would be Islamic authorities.

If you are Christian, this would be the recognized-by-Israeli-civil-law religious authorities: Orthodox, Roman Catholic, etc. (In other words, just because you consider yourself a Christian, doesn't mean that the Israeli authorities will recognize you as a Christian because it is not a matter of either belief or religious practice. It is: what CHRISTIAN authority that is RECOGNIZED BY ISRAELI CIVIL LAW will "recognize" you as a Christian?)

If you are atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc., you either find an acceptable Christian religious authority who will do the certifications, or you go out of the country for whatever it is.]

Jews across the Jewish spectrum have been trying to get this situation rectified since 1948 (when Israel became an independent nation). Many Orthodox Jews, along with just about all other kinds of Jews, think that civil matters should be a matter of civil authority...NOT religious authority!!!

This woman is Jewish and she is screwed. Her son will be circumcised (unless she can spirit him out of Israel and live with him elsewhere until he becomes a legal adult).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2013 03:42PM by tevai.

The joke is that the laws werent made by the rabbis but by the airlines. They are the ones profiting. You have to be married by your clergyman. If he refuses to marry you,you.go to Cyprus

bona dea Wrote:
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> The joke is that the laws werent made by the
> rabbis but by the airlines. They are the ones
> profiting. You have to be married by your
> clergyman. If he refuses to marry you,you.go to
> Cyprus

True!!!!!!!!!

:-)

I wish I could have had a heated fight about mine. They just mutilated my dick right after I was born, no questions asked.

I hate despise and loathe infant circumcision. They should at least let the baby decide. I would like to see someone try amd circumcise a future child of mine!

When my son was born they asked no less than 5 times if we wanted to circumcised. I'm happy to report that today he is a happy, healthy, physically complete and intact boy.

I was circumcised. I don't remember if I felt pain or not. I also don't hate my parents for doing it.

I too declined to have my son circumcised. I think it's barbaric and extremely cruel to inflict such pain upon a helpless and innocent baby. Mutilation for sure.

I feel sorry for the child. From now on the whole world will know the status of his penis. It will open him up for bullying later in life. so sad that parents would allow the fight to become international news.

Death to zionism !!!!

Rather than calling it "circumcision", call it what it really is -- "male genital mutalation".

Do you call chest piercing...."male nipple mutilation"?

What about cosmetic surgery, that mutilation too?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2013 07:19AM by Stumbling.

Nipple piercing does not cut off part of the nipple and it is done by consenting adults. Infant circumcision is forced on an undeveloped part on an infant. I wish people would stop defending this practice.

I'm not defending it.

I'm merely exploring the depth of peoples disgust and at what point something unacceptable becomes acceptable.

If circumcision had medicinal benefits would it them become acceptable or remain not?

Some adults have their child's ear pierced, where do you stand on that - unacceptable mutilation or acceptable decoration?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2013 08:17AM by Stumbling.

Water and condoms have more medical benefits. Since babies do not have sex what is wrong with lettig a man decide wen he grows up if he wants his penia cut? And with ear piercing the child should e aboue to decide when they are old enough. It is their body and there is no reason why a person should not have a choice about their ears or their private anatomy. Plus forcing it on an infant has risks. If a grown man cannot handle ghe pain of it why do we expect babies to handle it? We need to do away with it. Most of the world is better off without it.

If it's involuntary, yes I would.

Only $140 a day? That's a snip.....

Stumbling Wrote:
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> Only $140 a day? That's a snip.....

$140 (U.S.) is a LOT of money for ordinary Israelis, let alone a woman trying to get a divorce and raise her son. Unless she comes from a wealthy family who is financially behind her, this would be (as it is intended by the Rabbinical Court to be) crippling, and--very, VERY soon--impossible.

Regardless of anyone's feelings about circumcision, this is a real woman with a real child who she is trying to do the right thing by and she deserves empathy and consideration from us for the very difficult life situation she is in.

Imagine yourself in her position, and then see how courageous she had been to take on the Rabbinical Court in the first place.

Would YOU have had the courage to do what she is doing, against the overwhelming (by Israeli standards) forces she is facing???

How is YOUR real life courage when you compare it to the courage that she is exemplifying in her life???

She's not "going along to get along," and she KNOWS she is going to lose, but she's making a statement about the injustices of Jewish law when it is applied with a universal brush to Jewish life. Are you making the "same" or similar statements about injustices which are occurring in the life of the community where YOU live???

This woman is an Israeli Rosa Parks.

Her courage is something we should all both admire and emulate.