I have read in various places that before he went to Carthage and to his death, JS was supposed to have fled Nauvoo and was only persuaded to return by Emma Smith calling him a coward.

Does anyone know the source for this story? I can't seem to find it anywhere. How reliable is it?

Thanks!

He was already across the river in Iowa and was trying to get a couple of his plural wives to come with him without Emma finding out.

Actually, he was with Hyrum and Hyrum convinced Joseph that both of them should return.

iamagodu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
It still took a lot of guts to go back.

<<<It still took a lot of guts to go back.>>>>


No, it didn't. He had an entire legion at his disposal, which he later called on to come to Carthage to protect him. They didn't, thank goodness, because they didn't want to start a war. End of story.

According to the documented history, he had gone to Iowa when some brethren came to him to let him know the mod was going to attack Nauvoo and the only way to stop them was for JS to return and surrender. The quote is, "I am as calm as a summer's morning." just before he announced his return.

Among those traveling with him was Porter Rockwell. Joseph specifically prohibited him from returning. I personally believe that in addition to being his childhood buddy, Porter was probably his lover. There are some hints in church history that tweeked my musings.

"Among those traveling with him was Porter Rockwell. Joseph specifically prohibited him from returning. I personally believe that in addition to being his childhood buddy, Porter was probably his lover. There are some hints in church history that tweeked my musings."

I don't think they were lovers, that's quite a stretch. Joseph had other reasons for not wanting OPR falling into the hands of the law. For example, OPR and JS were co-conspirators in attempted murder of Gov. Boggs and other murders.

But, if you have some evidence of JS and OPR being lovers, please post your information.

Finally someone else sees it. I gave away my Documentary History so I can give a page. There is a letter from a friend of Joseph's to whom he had sent Orrin to keep him out of the way during the fallout from the attempted assination of the governer of Missouri. The letter reads very much like a set of hint of who the S&M or at least Dom / Sub experience was going. "He endures my discipline..."

"I am calm as a summer's morning"...should read "I am douchey as a summer's eve"

He was much to chubby to run anywhere.

Jogging maybe...maybe...

That's why I don't get all of the talks about Joseph voluntarily laying down is life at Carthage when

1st) he ran away only to come back when Emma asked him to and the members were calling him / implying he was a coward

2nd) he, according to at least one source, sent a letter to Jonathan Dunham, major general of the Nauvoo Legion, from Carthage telling Dunham to bring the Legion to break him out.

3rd) he had a pistol smuggled in and used it to fight

4th) gave the Masonic sign of distress before being shot in an effort to win the sympathy of the Mason in the mob.

I don't blame Smith for doing any of that, but it doesn't appear that was trying to seal his testimony with his blood or that he was as calm as a summers morn.


Just my $.02

Thanks for the info...

Where does the information come from though? Is it in the church history somewhere, or are there letters?

I also read about the letter to John Dunham requesting the Nauvoo legion, however I also heard that this letter was one of the Hofmann forgeries. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

The first time I saw the claim was in Brodie's No Man Knows My History, I think.

It looks like she gets it from 2 earlier sources:

1)
Journal of Allen Joseph Stout, 1815-1889(brother to Hosea Stout, faithful LDS bodyguard to BY)
http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/AStout.html
Do a text search of the page for "Dunham" and you'll see the reference.

2)
T.B.H. Stenhouse, Rocky Mountain Saints (New York: D. Appleton and Company, 1873), 164n..

Fleeing Nauvoo before Carthage—
(PBS Mormons Site, Taken from Church History: Selections from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by LDS Scholar Daniel H. Ludlow)

"However, threats of mob violence increased. In Warsaw and Carthage, newspapers called for extermination of the Mormons. On June 18, Joseph Smith mobilized his troops to protect Nauvoo. When Illinois governor Thomas Ford apparently sided with the opposition and ordered the Church leaders to stand trial again on the same charges, this time in Carthage, Joseph and Hyrum first considered appealing to U.S. President John Tyler, but then decided instead to cross the Mississippi and escape to the West. Pressured by family and friends who felt abandoned and who believed Joseph to be nearly invincible, he agreed to return and surrender; but he prophesied that he would be going "like a lamb to the slaughter" and would be "murdered in cold blood" (HC 6:555, 559)."


Exactly the same from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism.
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/doc_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/EoM&CISOPTR=3904&CISOBOX=1




Masonic Cry of Distress—
Defenders claim that because John Taylor was there and did not mention the cry of distress that the others are mistaken. They were not there and the accounts are late. That said, Taylor was a Mason and being he had promised to not reveal the cry of distress may have had other reasons for not making the connection specifically...????

John Taylor (eyewitness): "In Carthage jail Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith "gave such signs of distress as would have commanded the interposition and benevolence of Savages or Pagans. They were both Masons in good standing. . . . Joseph's last exclamation was, 'O Lord, my God!'" (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, no. 13, 15 July 1844, 585).

Heber C. Kimball: "Masons, it is said, were even among the mob that murdered Joseph and Hyrum in Carthage jail. Joseph, leaping the fatal window, gave the Masonic signal of distress. The answer was the roar of his murderers' muskets" (Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball [Salt Lake City: Juvenile Instructor Office, 1888], 26).

Zina D. H. Young [1878]: "I am the daughter of a Master Mason [i.e., daughter of Heber C. Kimball]! I am the widow of a Master Mason [i.e., Joseph Smith] who, when leaping from the window of Carthage jail pierced with bullets, made the Masonic sign of distress; but . . . those signs were not heeded" (Andrew Jenson, Latter-day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia [Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901], 1:698).



Gun Smuggled into Carthage—
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Martyrdom/Hiding_Joseph%27s_gun

The late Harold Schindler wrote "Orrin Porter Rockwell: Man of God, Son of Thunder."

http://www.amazon.com/Orrin-Porter-Rockwell-Man-Thunder/dp/087480440X

Joseph Smith fled across the Mississipi River with his brother Hyrum accompanied by Orrin Porter Rockwell.

Rockwell then returned to Nauvoo but was persuaded by Emma Smith to carry a note from her to JS. He was accompanied by Reynolds Cahoon. Cahoon told Smith of Governor Ford's promise of safety and accused Joseph of cowardice.

The prophet and his older brother agreed to return (they had originally planned to flee to the Rocky Mountains with Rockwell as their guide).

(pp. 126-28; 1st Edition, 2nd Printing)

Any speculation about a relationship between Rockwell and Joseph Smith beyond a closely enmeshed friendship is wholly unwarranted and not born out by the facts. Nauvoo "sealings" between men were likely a fraternal ritual and nothing more. The exception was John C. Bennett, who probably danced across both sides of the congregation aisle. But by this time Bennett had been excommunicated and denounced by Smith and joined forces with the "anti's."

Incidentally, much of Schindler's research is taken from B.H. Roberts "History of the Church."

Joseph Smith willingly faced his accusers.

I would hesitate to say that taking a boat across the Mississippi in the dark of night and returning to face the music after all your followers and your wife call you a chicken a willing act. If Hyrum hadnt been so presuasive to him that he should listen and return and things would go smooth he probably would have not returned.

He willingly faced his accusers? Did you say that in jest i'm assuming?

He was a fugitive from justice--you know--wanted for questioning, called before a judge, for most of his life and certainly all of the time he was in Navuoo. There was a warrant out from Missouri and I don't know where else.

Maybe a better way to say it was...after his friends ultimately insinuated that he was a coward for abandoning Navuoo, he was heard to say: "If my life is of no value to my friends it is none to me..." THEN he faced his accusers. Still doesn't sound "willing" to me unless you can interpret willing in an extremely broad sense.

From what i understand, he felt he was above the law and felt his only accuser could be God himself. So if you are qualifying who a legitimate accuser would be maybe you have it right? Maybe he was always willing to face god but he certainly had no regard for civil or earthly authorities. He was happy to use them when it suited his purposes, but he clearly lived his live as though he was above any earthly law.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2011 11:54AM by onendagus.

I don't think that was mentioned in the narrative given by the jail's curator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUgf8q8NAxk

"Witness to the Martyrdom: John Taylor's Personal Account of the Last Days of the Prophet Joseph Smith" by John Taylor and Mark H. Taylor (Editor) is a pretty full account of all that happened prior, up to and following the ol' carthage gunfight.http://www.amazon.com/Witness-Martyrdom-Taylors-Personal-Account/dp/1573454494/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297453109&sr=8-1-fkmr0

Too bad JS didn't keep running. The mormon church would be nothing but a weird footnote in history.

Read "American Crucifixion" by Alex Beam. The most complete record of what happened those last two or three days I have found.

The bombshell to me was that JS was bragging--in his usual cocky megalomaniac way--to an Eastern reporter that he was going to essentially skate and that no one could touch him just the day before he ran for his life.

Highly recommended reading.

Q -- Did Joseph Smith run from Nauvoo before going to Carthage?

A -- Yes, the Lord warned Joseph to "flee to the Rocky Mountains."

It's well covered in "History of the Church, Volume 6, pp. 547 - 552.

I uploaded photos of the pertinent pages to a Flickr account. It's good stuff when viewed on the original publication.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/29763389@N07/albums/72157670043220400

A little summary --

Saturday June 22, 1844
p. 547 -- "Hyrum [said] 'A company of men are seeking to kill my brother Joseph, and the Lord has warned him to flee to the Rocky Mountains."

p. 548 Joseph sent word that Emma and the children should get on the second steamboat to Cinncinati, and headed across the river to Iowa in a leaky skiff. Joseph, Willard Richards and Hyrum had to bail with their boots while the Orrin Porter Rockwell rowed, so the skiff wouldn't sink.

Sunday June 23, 1844
p. Joseph sent Rockwell back to Nauvoo to get horses so he and Hyrum could go to the Great Basin in the Rocky Mountains.

p. 549 Emma sent Rockwell back to Iowa with instructions that Joseph should come back.

Joseph asked Rockwell "what shall I do?" and Rockwell replied "You are oldest and know best; and as you make your own bed, I will lie with you."

p. 552 "It was the strong persuasions of ..., who were carrying out Emma's instructions, that induced Joseph to start back to Nauvoo."

RG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2016 05:00PM by reinventinggrace.