I left 1 year ago and my wife followed 6 months later. We live in Davis County and so we are in the middle of it all. Both of our families are LDS, wife's MUCH more "devout" (crazy) than mine. We are looking forward to the future and wondering if raising our family in Utah is a good fit if we aren't mormon.
When we left, we were both notable people in the ward. Will our kid fit in?
Will she date/socialize? I never dated any non-mo and neither did my wife. Is she facing future shunning from her peers?
How do you fight the morg standards and teachings on modesty, sexuality, gender roles, etc that have invaded the culture?
We are both teachers so we can work pretty much anywhere. Will moving fix it or does it resolve itself on its own? Right now we get love bombed weekly and are nervously awaiting "doomsday" when wife's ultra-TBM parents return from the mission field.
You're both teachers. You could reestablish anywhere. Plan your escape from Utah. Sit down & daydream with your wife about different places you'd both like to go. Consider climate, culture, family-friendliness, demographics, etc. The world is your oyster. Escape Utah.
Colorado, Oregon and Washington State do treat their teachers rather well. If you were to move to the Denver area, you would still be within driving distance of family in Utah (to visit when you want)...but you would be a wonderfully diverse community.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2013 02:20PM by Talon Avex.
You couldn't pay me enough to live in the Morridor ever again. I also would never wish to return to anyplace in the Bible belt.
That pretty much eliminates the South and the Midwest. Personally, I would only choose to live on the West Coast or the East Coast. That's my opinion anyways.
I agree that these folks should escape Utah. Moving and living in another place can be cathartic, especially if you are unhappy, and it changes lives.
About being a teacher and being able to work anywhere, this isn't as simple as it may seem. Teaching licenses don't transfer easily from state to state. Unless they have a level 3 license or something like a national teacher certification they may have to even retake college classes.
For the OP: make sure and check to see what the teacher license requirements are for the state you are thinking of moving to. Some are more complicated than others.
Yes....personally I think it is better for non mo kids outside of utah.... I feel like there is a mentality among utah kids regarding the church that isnt good. If a kid isn't mormon and doesn't want to be thought of as mormon he/she will be way more likely to get involved in things that he/she perceives as stereotypically "non mormon" like drinking, smoking, sex, drugs.... just because they want to make sure other kids know they aren't mormon.....
The mentality outside of utah is different for teens. Just because your a good kid and do well in school, doesn't mean you're a religious nut.
The percentage of mormons in Utah is constantly decreasing, and since the activity rate is about 40%, TBMs are in a minority in the state overall. Your daughter will be in the majority, unless you're in one of the areas where it's very highly TBM.
However, it might be best for your family to move, but if you choose to stay, it might not be as bad as you think for your child.
This is what I was thinking. Some newer areas have a much higher percentage of school age kids that are members, but there will still be plenty of opportunities to associate with "normal" kids. Not sure how old the kids are now, but I'd bet that there will be large numbers of exmo youth all over Utah within the next decade. That being said, I'm still interested in getting out of Utah.
I think age 16 is especially difficult for non mormon kids in very high lds population areas because suddenly their social options for dating are very limited - many, many of their peers will refuse to date them.
You're absolutely right, BC. On the flip side to that are kids like my 16 DS. He's knows it's all BS, but remains undercover because it's social suicide here. He petty much refuses to date Mormon girls out of fear of really falling for one. He doesn't want to take the chance of that happening. The non-Mormon girls stay away because they don't want to date Mormon guys. So, his plan is bail out of Utah as soon as he graduates.
His mother doesn't get it. She can't see that he REALLY doesn't believe and kind of thinks he is skeptical just to please me. I think she's secretly hoping that he'll get tied in with some TBM girl that brings him back around. He's seen the brain damage that I've gone through with DW over this whole thing and he wants no part of it.
It is so hard to see him go through this, as he such a good kid.
I hate this fucking so-called church for the mental bullshit and damage it causes. It's nothing but a goddamned cult.
Moving away from family is almost always a good Idea and is better for married couples for the most part. Contrary to the “Families are Forever” LDS mantra, family isn’t always what it’s cracked up to be. More often it’s just cracked.
I say if you have a chance to move yourselves and your child away from influences that you know will affect the family negatively then by all means do so. Leave the small world behind and get out in the real universe. You will always be glad you did and will forever regret if you don’t. The lovebombing, judgmentalism and insidious shunning will never ever end.
My answer to you (being a recent LDS dropout from Utah County) is this: get the heck outta Utah. Fast. The culture itself is something that will always be in your face. And it's one way or the other- hard core drugs/alcohol and general loserish kids or devout mormons. Nothing in between. Go to Colorado, that's what we're planning to do.
Or at least to the least Mormon area which suits your needs.
I've read here for years about this problem. Some kids manage in spite of the problems and others can't handle it. I'd advise leaving for their sake if you can. Growing up these days isn't easy under the best circumstances. You might as well not make it harder than it needs to be.
It's amazing to watch how much more free and happy my daughter is when we are on vacation away from Utah. She is TBM (thanks to my ex) and I can tell she loves being able to wear what she wants and not having to watch what she says and does. She's a great kid, too. I hate the culture here. It's in the politics and the schools. You can say 40% all you want - but the state is still run by the church and the Mormons are so arogant, it feels more like 90%.
I graduated high school on the edge Morridor in the treasure valley just a four years ago. I can tell you as a nonmember your daughter will constantly be lovebombed by every member who chooses to live the "every member is a missionary" lifestyle. Additionally I was restricted in the dating because I was not a member by a lot people. As a male I would have the opportunity to ask a limited amount girls to dances and on dates. I knew the ones that would say no just because I was not a member. But a girl would never ask me for all the girl ask guy dances and functions. I have seen some opportunity for dating but it is very limited and it tends not to work out usually because of the church.
No matter how hard I tried establishing that I was not joining the Morg, my peers would refuse to hear No. They would continue to poke, prod me to even at least attend services. I continued to say no. I shared a lot of morals such as abstaining from alcohol and tobacco so my peers thought I was still very convertable. I was eventually labeled as dry mormon and was constantly asked when the date for my baptism was, when I was applying to BYU, where I wanted to go on a mission. All during this time I maintained that I didn't want to join them. For four years of high school it did not stop. There will be someone, who will try to constantly try to convert her. Her social life can be severely restricted. Although there are a fair amount of younger mormons who will reject this idea and are more open minded about living and socializing with people out the TSCC. I can guarentee that she will be limited in her soical life in some manner.
At least in personal experience right after I graduated I had to get away from mormons as far away as I could. I now go to a military college our on the east coast where my classmates are from across the United States. I can tell you if all she does is grow up in Morridor she will have some sort of culture shock when she sees what is outside of the Morridor. I know that I did. I regret not knowing about other cultures, races, ethnicities, traditions because I of where I am from. I am behind many of classmates on understanding what diversity looks like and how to function as a leader in it. However your daughter (if you choose to stay) will have a unique perspective on being a religious minority. In some ways being constantly hawk-eyed, looked down upon, persecuted, love bombed, and examined by mormons growing up has given me a unique sense of who I am and what I believe. Many of classmates do not know what it is like to be perceived as different and the stigmatism that comes with that. It has shaped me to who I am today. It continues to shape me. And although there was some bumps in the road becasue I grew up surronded by Mormons I am thankful in some ways for it.
However if you do choose to stay. After she gets to the age of adulthood, she needs to leave Morridor. I had no idea what the non-Morg world looked like outside Utah and Idaho. Whether its college, military, job, soul searching I suggest that when the time comes for her to spread her wings you push for something far away from Morridor where she can see how the rest of the world actually functions.
It's not just high school - in-state universities can be awesome deals (depending on the state), especially for high-achieving kids. If you stay in Utah, that leaves only Utah universities.
I think you should hit the road. There is always the danger that one or more of your children will fall in love with a Mormon. Or conversely, your children may be shunned by their peers.
If you don't want to be too far away from your family, Colorado has a similar climate and is a very nice place to live. I would also look at communities in Oregon, Washington state, and wherever else appeals to you. Many teachers relocate to Florida.
One thing that you should take a hard look at is the state pension system for wherever you want to relocate. Pensions vary widely with some states have meager payouts and some having rich payouts. Find out how much of your final income the pension will replace when you retire -- 25%? 33%? 100%? It may not seem that critical to you right now, but someday it will. Also, check on transferability of your Utah pension credits. Oftentimes there are interstate agreements about that.
Relocating to Florida means a fairly low hassle teacher certification, whether already a teacher or coming from another profession (having done this, I know). However, Florida teacher salaries are crap...don't know how they compare to Utah... but Florida is not as cheap a place to live as you might think (property insurance, for example is OUTRAGEOUS).
My husband (an inactive Mormon) and I (a nevermo) relocated to Cache Valley a couple of years ago and put ourvgranddaughter (Episcopalian and also white/North African Arab racial mixture) into a local public high school for her senior year. Stupid, stupid, stupid! She was horribly shunned and underwent religious bullying and bore some racial slurs as well. I intervened with a school counselor and got some cooporation and help from a couple of her teachers.
Interestingly, she is a stunning beauty, in addition to being very intelligent and she survived the year, but it was a struggle. No date for the senior prom, of course. She got through due to her tenacious strength of character. And she is now a sophomore at USU and doing very well. Also works full time and has been doing some modeling. She has friends in college from the exmo and non Mormon student population. She actively tries to befriend LDS kids but finds it difficult. Conversations are strained. But she refuses to hate and wants to remain open.
It is tough for nonMormon kids growing up in Utah. Our granddaughter is making her peace with it. I don't know if every kid could do it. It hurts to know your child is being shunned or bullied just because he or she is not a menber of a certain religion. It would be a lot easier just to leave the state. If you stay in Utah stop in to see a student counselor and voice your concerns. Be blunt and bring up the religion issue right away
My daughter went through this, she was baptized but since I rarely went to church she never was into it. During high school she was love bombed like crazy until she told them very forcefully one night on our doorstep that she was never going to go to the activities. It helped that her two friends stood up for her as well. She only dated a bit, nothing serious, not many guys here wanted to get involved with a non member. She's in college now (still in Utah) and it's hard because almost all of her high school friends are married, some even have kids. She does work with a great group of nonmo's so that's been good. Mormon guys still try to date her but she friend zones them immediately, saying they don't have the same goals. I tell her that life here is not "normal" most women are not married at 21.
We also live in Davis County and would move away in a second if we could.
I was in Davis county as well. Left in Spring of 2009. In order to have some sort of a real life, I had to get outta UT in its entirety. IF you choose to stay there, your kids are going to be treated terribly by the regular Mormons. No matter what you try to do IF you stay there, it will not work. You need a new start in a new state. You as well will be shunned, and gossiped about. Get the hell outta there while you still can. You say you are starting the exit process? This is only the first step, It is not going to be easy and I spent 2 years in counseling AFTER I physically left UT. You and your family WILL go thru culture shock for a little while after leaving, but it is a good kind of culture shock...Your kids will see what the real world is like. I wish you well, and look forward to your future posts.
I grew up in Alpine and PG in Utah Valley. Born and raised in the church. I left the church as a teen and the social scene was difficult for sure. I didn't get many 2nd dates with member and non members were harder to find then. I felt like an alien in my own town with the people I'd known forever.
I understand things are better now but I left 12 years ago and haven't looked back. I've built a great life for myself and am now raising my own adopted kids outside of the influence of religion in the woods of Maine. There are better places out there.
My children are attending public schools in Utah. I have not heard of any religious discrimination against them. I also do not make a big deal with whether or not someone is LDS. My daughter asked an LDS boy to the most recent girls' choice dance. He is a really good kid.
The best way to combat LDS discrimination is to stay. Eventually, Utah may become a nice place to live for everyone.
Why worry about all of this crap when there is no REAL wall around Utah. The Zion curtain allows moving vans to go through it. Utah is nice to vist but don't live there. If you love the mountains/scenery part of Utah, come join us in gorgeous Colorado. We have the beauty without the cult. And you are still close enough to go see relatives on I-70 or I -80 for a 7 - 10 hour road trip. Or fly to SLC from Denver in just over an hour. Colorado has the same seasons/weather (same powder snow), etc. but not the cult. I love it here. Few Mormons and the ones that are here are NOT in your face. I used to hear that Mormons out of the Morridor act different from the ones in the Morridor and it is true. When they are not the dominant culture, they are more or less ignored. As an aside - one of the prettiest road trips is on I - 70 from Denver through the lower half of Utah.........something for everyone...high mountains (peak after peak), beautiful canyonlands/deserts, Moab, Ray's Tavern in Green River for burgers or chops.......(TO DIE FOR!!) Just saying.....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2013 03:56AM by enoughenoch19.
cache Valley here. The teenage dating years are especially difficult,if I had it to do all over again with my kids I would probably leave Utah at least for those years. TBM parents can be down right bitchy nasty backstabbing pond scum. By the time their kids graduate high school and LDS seminary they are much the same. The LDS seminary is about 300 yards from the front doors of The high school so everyone knows who is and isn't Mormon. The seminary teachers are just thrilled about being so visible. One positive thing is the nonmo groups are very unique and make life long friends. USU adds some diversity to the community but not enough. Perhaps it's time for Mormons to leave utah and disperse. The high concentration of tbms make it toxic, esp for the teens.
on this question is always the same. Why not leave the church but STAY in Utah. We will never tip the political balance here until people stop leaving. I walk the walk. I'm ex-mo and live in a very small Ogden Valley town that is at least 95% LDS.
If mormonism wasn't a factor at all, would you live in Utah? Are the job opportunities a good match for you? Are the schools and activities available to your kids a good match for them? Do you like the weather? Is the cost of living comfortable?
I left Utah, but it was because there was no real market for my chosen profession and because I hate the snow. Sure, it was nice to get away from the mormons. But moving was too big a decision to base on a church that I don't even belong to anymore.