Its very surreal.
Last night I told the remaining family.
They include some TBM.
Without going into too much detail we also look after the children of my brother and his wife (early teens).
I was so scared they would remove their children.
Well. How blessed and lucky we are. I told them all separately, held my breath.
They only said how much they love me, how glad they are that their children are in a good Christian home, and how they just love us so much, and they simply want us to be happy.
And this is basically what the rest of my family said.
All that nervous energy wasted when I could have just talked to them all along.
My sister asked about what I don't believe, I mentioned the first visions, she started to defend, I said "na, lets not go there together" and she said ok.
My brother and his family then started to talk about Christmas plans we had to go away together as families.

My wife and I are not the kind to pray to find lost keys. We believe god is not an interventionalist.

But we cant help but have seen and felt how the path has just opened to help us leave every, single, step of the way.

Its like the Lord (non apologetic for being Christian) has helped us.

So, what is next?

Well, I'm Gospel Doctrine teacher, thats a straight up lesson.

I also teach High Priests once a month..haha we have the Joseph Smith lesson.

Lets see what's at my feet (I'm in a very surreal moment here, in my LAST ever sacrament meeting)

So, HeartSell (tm) print out. Check.
Joseph Smiths letter to the Whitneys. Check.
Brighams Conference address about the evil poisoner Emma and how she kept trying to kill Joseph. Check.
A print out of the multiple first visions. Plus all the official statements from big name church leaders for the next 40 years where they referenced the same (angel-only) vision. Check.

The July 1993 Russell Nelson Rock in a Hat ensign.

And a Family Search print out of his 33 wives, with dates_before_1843, and dates _before_1837_, this eliminating the excuse of Sec132, or the next fall back of saying well Elijah had come. Check check.

So to quickly print the Heber Kimball I don't want your wife Heber" quote, (cos Helen Marr Kimball is named in the family Search print out)
And the lesson will be complete.

Shutdown.

As I've said before, many of these people are our friends.
We love them and like them, and hope they continue to be our friends.

The lesson will be polite, and I will truly be genuine when I sincerely say I am really struggling with this and cant reconcile it. And ask if they can help.

Of course, they can't, because really, its all (swear alert) bullshit, and completely indefensible.

Then after that lesson, my RSP wife and I have booked to see the bishop, who probably thinks we want to see him for tithing settlement.

Poor guy, he is nice and tries to be more of a minister than a administrator. Of course, ive been in the ward 2 years and never been in his office or said more than a simple hello with him. He will no doubt blame himself. Mormons are good for guilt.

So here comes 2014, kind of a big way to go out

I can only hope to offer hope to those in fear of the unknown.

The lord loves us unconditionally, and wants us to be true to ourselves, and happy.

Families can be more loving and understanding than we might think.

Suck breath, Sacrament is over, wife and I look at each other, me in my purple shirt and tie...
.here we go!

Hi FredOi

Hope everything goes well for you in PH. its 11.20 am so its just starting. Let's hope some seeds are planted in the minds of the quorum. Our family felt much better when we ceased.
Wishing you a merry Christmas to you and yours.
You are right about ACU and our connection to it. The tatt has me flummoxed to though. Maybe our paths will cross .

Thought so. You guys had to do the fruit didn't you.

Yes, oooooooh yes, I have some stories about the lesson.

Off to see Bishop now

Hi FredOi -

Mrs MAxxedout here. Yes, we did the fruit :) We have been thinking of you and know that whatever happens, it happens for a reason. As Hubby said, we felt so much better when we stopped going, mostly because I finally found out what all the stress was - Hubby finally told be what was bothering him and I stopped spending every Sunday in a nightmare, stressing because we were supposed to feel peaceful and have quiet time, but I spent all my time running around yelling at my family for doing "the wrong thing".

I really like your point about still being Christian. Just because you leave the church doesn't mean you are leaving God. I strongly believe that Hubby and I joined the church for reasons specific to our needs at the time, and later down the track to finally meet each other. Now God has something else He wants us to do and our need for the church is over.

We also were blessed with having an awesome bishop who was also a friend who stopped over to see how we were and to ask us if we were coming back "not to convince you, just so I know". He took our answer quite well and wished us all the best. I still chat to his wife on FB at times.

Anyway...the decision is the hardest part. Once it's done you feel a weight off your shoulders. Have a lovely relaxed afternoon with your family and huge hugs because you did it and you survived! All the best, Mrs M.

He was a nice Bishop. Walking coronary, but sincerely nice.
Maybe next year you will bump into wife there. She gets around.
confidences appreciated of course, still delicate intil the new year. And can assure aside from wife your confidence will never be disclosed beyond my wife either.
small world....who else I wonder?

Well.
Its official.
Just left his office.
DW has resigned, I said we aren't members its a corporation we are just customers means nothing to me. He said they won't try rescue us. Clearly its not something that can be mended.
He was nice and understanding.
Released us very quickly.


When we sat down, I said bishop, we and our children are leaving the church.
He said oh, ok.
a bit more from me about why.
He said "so, how do you feel DW".
DW paused. Looked him in the eye, leaned forward and said "bishop, its a fraud".

And then she told him how she really feels

What a woman.

All done. Family supportive. Here comes 2014.

Congrats FredOi and family. It's been a long and eventful day for you all. Did the Bishop want to challenge you on any of the details or did he just take it in and then acknowledge you were leaving? I understand from your post he wouldn't try and rescue you but was wondering if he'd accepted everything was as explained or even whether it was all news to him.

We are looking forward to how your class went today. I remember our last callings as YSA advisors. We didn't quite go by the book and introduced tit-bits into discussions. Not necessarily about lessons from the manual but common-sense life lessons that we wanted our own children to know.

Anyway, when you get a chance to let us know how the class went, please do so.

Best wishes

We will return and report

Haha. Man that's crazy. IIRC, it was the other bishopric member that called you to that class. Or was it me? Oh man its all a blur. What a tool. Totally brainwashed.
No, we are extremely good. Thank you tho, highly ironic isnt it. You the only people offering some support.
Wife has amazing support outside of the church, with her friends. I'm cool with my support too. See you around.
No one knows yet, we let Bishop figure out how to do it first, we have sincere care for the emotional impact on the kids in DWs young women's through this. Not tellt our friends just yet. A few days

It's a fraud!!

Truer words never spoken

...just in case you have doubters regarding the Church's acknowledgement of the differing First Vision accounts, here's the Church's own white-washed publication on the 8 different ones they knew existed back in 1970!

https://archive.org/stream/improvementera7304unse#page/n5/mode/2up

Congratulations!

That web site did it for my wife and I.
We saw the bishop yesterday and told him we have some news for him
He was so smiling...you're expecting!
Ah no
Oh no, you're leaving the ward boundary
Ah no
What?
We are leaving the church.
Shock
Why?

We have peanred it is not true bishop.
Looks at wife, asks how do you feel DW.
She leaned in, looked him in the eye "its a fraud bishop, a giant fraud"
Then she told him how she feels, really like.
YWP, me Gospel Essentials, high priest teacher each month and ward and stake auditor.
We have done every calling. RSP, Prim P, EQP, High Council, Bishopric, Ward Mission Leader.
Some multiple times.
That was 20 hours ago.

See thread "Resigning in 3 hours"

John Dehlin, Tom Phillips interview, MormonThink

Oh, plus FAIR, church history, Brigham Youngs own words about Emma, those "......" Elipses in the Lorenzo Snow manual tithing lesson.

Its a ward of 150+, but tithing receipts probably just went down 20%.

I had the fortune of teaching the high priests class of 20 "stalwart" types the Joseph Smith lesson before we met the bishop to tell him.

Oh yeah, that will have a thread of its own.

I saw how people will be turning on me and pulling the "Satan has you" claim.

shout downs like "can we stop this and return to the correlated lesson materials and hear words of prophets"

Then I said, hang on, I am reading word for word Brigham young general conference 1856. What are we ashamed of.

then I had a reply "im not feeling good the spirit isn't in here"

I said I am really sad you think I have been influenced by Satan. I am holding the truth in my hands (I was asking for help in explaining to my son how Joseph smith was not a paedophile by this time) in the FAIR and family search print outs showing he married women before sec 132.
And before 1837- Elijah, and he married women who's husbands he had just sent on missions, and 13&14 year old girls.

well it kinda didn't go much better. I said I am reau struggling, as is my son, we need something to understand this.

I was told to stop reading anti lies.
and just read the correlated lesson material.

I said if I do that I will lose my children and he deceiving myself.

I ended the lesson saying positives about the church and JS, but that I need help

it was a very sincere way with no accusing or statements beyond I need help.

lesson ends. 20 men, who have many known me better part of 10 years, kids are friends, just got up and walked out while I am sitting in the chair in the middle of the room

2 things happened

the "I don't feel the spirit guy came up, put his arm on my shoulder and apologized, said he feels bad for saying that and didn't want it to have sounded that way. Thank you brother, that touched me.

the HPGL came up, stood above me, put his passive aggressive hand in my shoulder, looked down and said "thanks for teaching the lesson, but uh, next time, just stick to the lesson material"

So, 20 men, friends. Only 6 spoke at all, the rest on ipdads etc.

and they walked out on me, a brother who sat there, close to tears and sincerely ended the lesson with "brothers, I am in real need of help here, just something"

And then they just got up and walked out.

which made what happening right after, much easier.

our family told the bishop, in his office, it is a lie, Joseph smith was a Fraud, and we are leaving the church.

I will comment more on the meeting another time, suffice to say he said "ah no, I don't think we will be trying to rescue you (as in, probably not good idea to send anyone around)


The only thing we had in common after all that, was our postcode,

"Someone here please tell me where I am wrong and the church is still true?" and they still walked out?

Wow.

I sincerely said myself and my son are in spiritual danger here (15yr old) and we need help understanding and processing this.

Not only did they walk out, the a$$-wipe HPGL did his usual passive aggressive trick and said what he said in that way.

If "Satan has me" is all they will be able to reconcile (b.s anyway my wife and family the most Christian, as a verb- LDS family I ever knew) then they will also know they drove me there and dropped me off while I had my arms out asking for help.

I knew the history was lies, but from that I knew for certain that there was no hope of being half in.

Even the bishop said there is now middle ground, and Uchtdorfs "there is a place for you" is nonsense.

This is so beautiful. You are my hero

Wow. What a red-letter day. Good luck.

Mrs Maxxedout here.
I'm so sorry you were treated that way by people who are supposed to put God first and care for their fellow man. Even if they didn't agree with what you said, they could have at least expressed concern for you as a human being. We have a JW across the road from us and he has said straight out "Nice to know that even if we don't believe the same we can still be friends", and at that time he knew we were LDS.

As you said, it just makes the decision easier, but still hurts that people you thought were friends will no longer be friends. If you need to chat, message Hubby and you will get all the sympathy and validation from us you could wish for! :)

Have an awesome Christmas and be at peace now you don't have to stress about this.

You are brave!! I gave my last HP lesson (on Christ and getting a personal relationship with him ---- my topic). Of course it went over their heads ---- a personal relationship with Christ where did he get this?? If I were braver I would have done what you did but I didn't have my wife with me ---- she likes the social club//her only friends ---- she claimed so she would get mad if I said anything negative about LDS inc. in front of her, relatives or church friends.

You will realize the tremendous feeling of FREEDOM ---- you broke away from the slavery of a false church with corrupt leaders! You can try to help others find the Truth but in the end ----- if they are not interested in the TRUTH ---- they deserve Mormonism, slavery, boredom, and getting ripped off (time, talent and money)! Best Wishes ---- it will take a little time for your life to settle down!

You are trapped.
I feel for you.
I feel for everyone stuck there.
Why did no friend unplug me sooner?
It takes time, slowly, then happens so quicklyz exponential once you accept it is lies, but you will be ok if you leave.

My (church) best friend lives in another country.

His family is deep. He can't even talk to his mum or dad. Or his wife. They all pretend. His best friend is in the same boat. Dis believer, can't communicate with parents and wives and families.

Afraid.

Me simple, I'm an orphan, just wife, kids, and my siblings who mostly don't care.

These 2, well, lets just say we see their parents speak at GC...and they aren't lowly 70s either.

Them, I need to rescue. Shattered shells of men, leading half lives.

Thank you MormonThink.