After I listened to Radio West's podcast, I realized what a big score that is against LDS legal control over the state of Utah. It seems like every skeleton has been dug up and it is being placed on the lawn of every chapel around the world.

What a victory for fundamentalist: BY is admittedly uninspired and polygamy is legal, and the FLDS are leaving the Jeffs' cult in droves...and he is in jail, forever. Mormons cant keep polygamists from embarrasing them anymore.

What a victorious year for gays! Folks cant be excomminucated for being or supporting gays.

What a great time to leave that cult, so many resources, social acceptance, support, information...

The racism, the polygamy, the doctrinal changes, Joseph's "little" secrets, the financial shenanigans, general authorities leaving or/and admitting mistakes...are all being brought up publicly. Most significant, they admitted, indirectly, that their prophets do not guarantee to speak for God or with any inspiration at all, so there is no point on follwing them.

But it is not just that. Donations are running low, all while they expand into expensive countries. Domestic membership (the money maker) is dwindling. The fantasy that they are the true church because they are growing so fast is running low on fuel: money. They make another ill fated decision and buy large amounts of real estate that cannot be immediately turned into residential/commercial development.

Faithful members are publicly questioning doctrine. From women wearing pants to openly gay LDS folks.

Their long awaited presidential candidate lost because of his inability to deal with reality... and he lost as he was exposed as being far from christ's teachings...we saw under the skin of a poster mormon, and we saw a bit of class warfare, racism, dishonesty and quite simply, idiocy.

It seems like every effort is turning in a disaster: more missionaries, dirty chapels, prop 8, stupid mopology essays, doctrinal statements and everyone of the solutions just drives more people away.

Their "savvy" media effort for the mormon moment has been a disaster, a waste of money at best, and embarrassing fiasco at worse (see Holland's now classic Dodo moment).

Not surprisingly, the spokesman for the church refuses to make ANY statements or to address ANY issue. For a long time he looked like a silent figurehead, now he is beginning to look like a mascot. I half expect him to blurt a catch phrase and take pictures with children in front of the COB or to be run out to the field during BYU football games.

All off this was unthinkable 10 years ago.

It all makes me wonder who the hell is running things. Its clear that it is not God nor Monson, so who is making these epic blunders?

Whoever they are, I commend them, I could not think of a more harmful sequence of events and decisions to expose the LDS corporation.

Cheers to the dodo's downtown and may 2014 bring even more hastening!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2013 11:24PM by erictheex.

Looking forward to more epic fails in 2014!!!

Beware the cornered dragon.

A similar thing was said to Churchill about the Italians. The Brits were whipping the Italians left and right in Africa, and on the Mediterranean. The propagandist started admitting that yes, the Brits have caught Italy, but they have caught a Tiger by the tail, and dare not let go, less the Tiger turn. Churchill responded that with his famous line, that it was a paper Tiger. Italy's threats proved to be hollow, because they had no teeth. Unless the church has a battalion of suicide bombing Danites hidden away somewhere, I am not all that worried.

The LDS are standing on heap of lies, abuse and evidence of malfeasance and fraud. If they had a leg to stand on, then there would be a dragon, but it is, indeed, a paper dragon.

Beware the cornered chihuahua.

I'm with you in spirit, but I guess I don't see things as quite that encouraging.

A lot of posters here have suggested TSCC is running low on cash. I've seen no evidence of that. Yes, members are now slavish toilet cleaners, but to my thinking that is as likely a sign of greed for even more profit as it is a sign of financial problems.

And yes, people are leaving. But there is a long way to go until their raw numbers start really tanking.

(Loved the mascot comment, LOL.)

Creating the new mall and building condo's that no one is buying cost them dearly. They're still a financial powerhouse, but it hurt them, undeniably.

I do think you're right in that the squeeze they're putting on the members likely has more to do with greed that the actual bottom line.

On the monetary front, I agree that there isn't a lot of evidence to say they are squeezed.

However, on the ideological front, I think they are definitely feeling it.

I'm not the first to point this out, but the internet is like the printing press on steroids.

I think tithing dollars are down. Between the bad economy, and the number of tithe paying members leaving, it has to be. However, the church has very diverse investments, and are probably enjoying a healthy return on many of these investments.

They are probably trying to figure out a way to sell of some of their less wisely built temples. In a way, that temple that burned down in the Pacific was probably a blessing to them. Before then, there was a prophesy that the church would never lose another temple. Where that has been thrown under the bus. It won't be long until they can convince the members that temples are just another building, one with a "special use" but that doesn't mean they can't be sold off or re-designated to other use, as needs change.

well put:
less people (as admitted by MK Jensen)=less contributions.
worse economy=less contributions

It's almost like unbelievers are on the inside running this thing into the ground.

+1000

Thank you universe! Karma is a bitch!

Senoritalamanita Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> +1000
>
> Thank you universe! Karma is a bitch!

What does it mean when people reply "+1000" or "+1" to a post here? I've seen it a lot.

There is no up vote capability on the board so it's done manually be people.

Or in other words, RfM's version of the "like"

We've all been hurt
By cons and jerks
Put your shoulder to the fail

That is a very encouraging recap of recent events. When you add it all up and put it on one page, it does give one hope.

My first thought was that my own family will be the very, very last to see it no matter how blatant and ridiculous it is all held up to be.

But here's to more in 2014. I'll drink to that.

"now he is beginning to look like a mascot"

I read that and immediately thought - BOBBLE HEAD DOLLS! Can't you just see one on the dash of all those mini vans :)

There will be those that will never leave, just like there are those that strap on explosive vests; and yes, they are not poor, but their INCOME is getting squeezed.

I don't know why people think that because they are not having a yard sale, that they must be ok.

They are not the family with 5k in the bank that has lost it all. They are the family with 4 Million in the bank whose stores are closing and they must maintain them all. It is VERY financially significant that they are cash strapped, even if they are asset rich, because those assets are hard to liquify and to create consistent income out of them and because their business is based on the APPEARANCE of success and growth. It takes a few hundred Peruvians or Ugandan's to make up for a couple of US tithe payers.

I can see "Grinning Tommy" in a little cowboy uniform being run out every time BUY wins, so 5 times per year.

But cheer up everyone, more essays, websites, blunders, european numbers and the October 2067 surprise are coming!

Eric,

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I really wonder what evidence you have that they are "cash strapped." I would love for it to be true, but what are you basing that on?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2013 09:26PM by Susan I/S.

Left, my dad worked for them all over the world for 20 years. In that time, I learned a lot about how crucial appearances are for them. To lay off janitors is a huge sign. To read the declining official numbers coming out of Europe, where they have to disclose them, it amazing. To see those condos downtown slashed to half after many spent their life savings: significant...they are still not sold. To take on luxury mall in this economy? foolish. To tell members that the church wont help them financially (see oaks regional talk) is telling.

Let me explain how the monster works: they get tithes and offerings ( plus land donations, tax exceptions, write off and depreciation) this cash is put into new temples, stake buildings and chapels. Companies like Zwick's (a 70) get the contracts, they line their pockets and put kids like the Romney boys, Eyring kids, holland kids on the payroll, rinse , repeat. They get all kinds of perks I wont go into and voila you have the "fastest" growing church. If you cut off the cash flow, to where it does not maintain the system, you will see the types of cuts and changes that LDS are making: less temples, less chapels, many talks about sacrifice, tithing and obedience, cuts in welfare help, cuts in employee departments, smaller budgets for scouts, YW and a drive for more volunteers (they skim off this too).

So no, I don't have their financial sheets with me, but I have learned that they NEVER look weak unless they are forced to, I also can tell a duck by the way it sounds and looks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2013 09:30PM by erictheex.

I'm calling BS here. Do you have ANY documentation to support the claim that the condos downtown are "slashed by more than half"? I haven't seen any.

And LDS Inc just plunked down half a billion $ to buy some woodland. Doesn't sound all that cash strapped to me.

look it up genius. Sorry you dont understand.

Cogent and encouraging analysis.

Thanks Eric!

I don't see Tommy running anywhere. Maybe some sister missionaries can push his wheelchair around the field when the team scores.

I see the church as having a public face and private face, and the two are not compatible. The public face makes the church out to be accepting of everyone -- the "big tent" model. But the private face of the church still wants to micromanage member's lives.

Interviews, tithing, callings, tithing, cleaning toilets, tithing, home/visiting teachers, tithing, garments, tithing, no coffee/tea/alcohol, tithing,...

I never went to a tithing settlement. I just thought my finances were none of the church's business. Just like the church thinks its finances are none of the members' business. Are they still debating if women can wear pants to church? Why? Could a married gay couple get a temple recommend? Probably not. Their social programs have gone down hill. Why bother? One bishop may let something slide and the next will excommunicate you. Who needs that kind of crap in their lives?

Yes, this has been a great year to be an ex-mormon. All the things mentioned have been damaging to the Morg, plus we still have Tom Phillip's surprise to deal yet another blow. 2014 should be a pretty good year. All this gradual damage should eventually make Goliath fall-- hopefully in my lifetime.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2013 10:30PM by hangar18.

blueorchid - no it will be parts of my family that are last to see it......
ANy word on the Phillip's surprise yet? I have my fingers crossed.

My wife and I were solid in October. Then we saw the late war, Napoleon stuff.

We resigned on sunday, all 5 of us.

Never mind the toilets, 20% of the white, upper class tithing just walked out the door, now they have 4 callings to fill too.

For those with family in who are hoping, it only took us 2 months. Have hope.

The October Surprise to us was how quick it all came crashing down.

We'll take that

If .... as some suggest... "All is well in Zion"....

I've NEVER seen the GAs so sensitive about external matters.

* admitting that large numbers of members were leaving
* coming (almost) clean about racism

Those things are unprecedented, folks.

guynoirprivateeye Wrote:
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> Those things are unprecedented, folks.

Yep.
Absolutely never before (and not expected in my lifetime).

Cracks in the dam.

Any updates on the legal challenge to Utah's gay marriage ban?