Recovery Board
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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
We now know how the Mormon Church treats (actually, mistreats) its own.
D. Michael Quinn who--despite his deeply-held, personal belief that the LDS Church was restored to the earth through Joseph Smith (yes, that is what he truly believes)--nonetheless got the excommunication boot because he dared talked too much about the reality of the Mormon Church's deceitfully practiced history of post-Manifesto polygamy. (For background on that vicious campaign of personal destruction waged by the Mormon Church against Quinn, see "Quinn Ex'ed for His Post-Manifesto Paper. The Cult Now Admits He Was Right," Parts 1 and 2, by Steve Benson, "Recovery from Mormonism" discussion board, 20 December 2013, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1113165,1113165#msg-1113165)
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Below is a summation of my own interactions with Mike Quinn regarding his personal beliefs regarding Mormonism. It represents my understanding of Mike's situation--although there is, of course, more that can be had, as more becomes known (A Church source has, off the record, informed me of certain possible developments in that regard). Much of what I relate below is based on what Mike has personally shared with me; other information is gleaned from my own research.
--How I Became Personally Acquainted with Mike Quinn--
I have known Mike as a personal friend for several years and admire him greatly (although we haven't been in direct contact for some time now), both as an individual and as a scholar, Despite our frienship, we disagree on some fundamental matters.
I first came into contact with Mike in 1993, after he had published an incredibly insightful article on my grandfather Ezra Taft Benson’s political conflicts with other members of the Quorum of the Twelve (see D. Michael Quinn, "Ezra Taft Benson and Mormon Political Conflicts,” in “Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought,” 26(2), Summer 1993: pp. 1-87).
I was so impressed with Mike’s “Dialogue” essay that I called him directly, identified myself and congratulated him on a very well researched and responsible piece of historical analysis. Except for one minor error (in which my father, Mark A. Benson, had been incorrectly said to have been an official member of the John Birch Society when, in fact, he was not, although he was a fervent supporter of Bircher anti-Communist teachings and goals), I had absolutely no beef with Mike’s analysis, only admiration.
The phone call apparently surprised Mike, given that it came out of the blue and we had never before had contact with one another. Mike confessed to me that when he realized that the grandson of Ezra Taft Benson was calling about his authored “Dialogue” piece, he assumed I was planning to gripe about it. He was pleasantly surprised to hear that, in fact, I was phoning to praise him for the extraordinarily good job he had done.
After I left the LDS Cult later that same year, I had ample occasions to talk directly with Mike about his own perspectives and beliefs pertaining to his personal Mormon beliefs.
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--Quinn’s Abiding Testimony in the Truthfulness of the Mormon Faith As God’s Restored Church On Earth--
In personal discussions, Mike shared with me his testimonial belief that the “Book of Mormon” was a literal historical record of ancient and accurate vintage; that Joseph Smith was a prophet called of God to reveal His divine truth to the world; that through Joseph Smith the golden plates were translated and that following the death of Joseph Smith the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints fell into apostasy through the corruption and sin of its leadership--and that this "falling away," if you will, of the Mormon Church from the purposes and designs of God's original 1830 restorative act, has continued up to the present time. Mike told me that it was his belief that a second Restoration (i.e., one occurring after the initial return of God's true Church to the earth in 1830 through the hands of Joseph Smith) was necessary in order to rehabilitate the Mormon Church and again make it the organization through which God would lead and guide His children to eventual salvation.
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--Quinn’s Book, "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View": His Own Research vs. His Own Views on the Case for Mormonism--
I asked Mike how he could profess a testimony in Mormonism’s historical and doctrinal foundations, especially given what many consider to be his devastatingly critical and historical dissection of Mormon origins and extensions of power.
From my own personal standpoint, Mike's compellingly documented book, “Early Mormonism and the Magic World View” (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1987, 313 pp.) had not only knocked out, but blown out, the struts out from under any serious claim that Mormons might attempt as to the alleged divinity of the LDS Church.
So impressed was I, in fact, with his book (which had a profound role in undermining my own belief in Mormonism), that I asked Mike to personally inscribe my copy, which he graciously agreed to do. On the title page, he wrote:
”Dear Steve,
“Great to meet you this morning just before the film crew arrived to interview you here! [At that time, I was in Salt Lake City to be interviewed by the press about the declining health of my grandfather and his mental and physical inability to effectively lead the Mormon Church]. Look forward to more talks and association with you. Best wishes, Mike (alias D. Michael) 7-14-93”
During our personal discussions, Mike acknowledged to me that he knew that his belief in Mormonism did not sound logical but that he nonetheless possessed an inward testimony of the “Book of Mormon,” of the prophetic calling by God of Joseph Smith and of the truthfulness of the Mormon Gospel as God's One and Only True Church. I found Mike's testimony startling, incongruous and at significant odds with his unparalleled research that, in my opinion, clearly exposed the fraud, frailties and fictions of Mormonism. But Mike's ultimate testimony in the Mormon faith seemed to rest on his firm belief that it was initially restored by God's hand in pure and true form, then became corrupted through the human-caused downfall of its leaders who subsequently followed Joseph Smith into power in the post-Smith era. Simply and fundamentally put, Mike holds on to the belief that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints remains God's true Church on the earth--but that it is in dire need of a complete restorative overhaul in order to bring it back to its original integrity, purpose, luster and exaltation-providing power.
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--Spencer W. Kimball’s Blessing to Quinn That Someday He Would Become an Apostle--
Mike also spoke to me during our talks together about a blessing he had received from then-Apostle Spencer W. Kimball. In it, Kimball promised Mike that if he remained faithful and obedient, he would someday become an Apostle in the Mormon Church. At the time of the Kimball blessing, Mike was still an active, temple-endowed, well-respected member of the Church.
Mike has written publicly about this blessing he received under Kimball’s hands.
In an autobiographical essay entitled, “The Rest Is History" (“Sunstone,” December 1995, p. 54), Mike addressed his personal consuming desire to someday become a member of the Quorum of the Twelve and how Kimball helped him deal with this distraction through the laying on of hands:
"President Kimball asked if I would like to have a blessing. As he laid his hands upon my head, I expected him to give me the comfort and strength to overcome my aspirations for Church office. Instead, Spencer W. Kimball promised me that one day God would call me to be an apostle. After the blessing, President Kimball told me not to work for the office or try to ‘curry favor’ with Church leaders, but just to live as I felt the Lord desired for me. There was no way I could logically explain that experience, then or now."
When we talked, it was clear to me, however, that Mike’s belief in Mormonism seemed to be much more personal and deeper than any anticipation he might have had of advancing into the upper echelons of LDS Church leadership. Mike’s testimony of the Mormon Gospel was a quiet, soft-spoken type of conviction about which he did not make a big deal---but to which he appeared genuinely committed.
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--Quinn’s Academic Credentials, Personal Travails and Ecclesiastical Persecution, Starting with His Excommunication for Telling the Truth About Post-Manifesto Polygamy--
What is all the more amazing about Mike's deep-rooted faith in the LDS Church is that his devotion to the basic claims of Mormonism has remained strong through the years, despite all that he has been through--often at the hands of the Mormon Church itself. At the peak of his professional career, Mike was a highly-regarded expert in his chosen field of history, both in out and of the Church.
Sandra and Jerald Tanner have reviewed his stellar academic career as follows:
”Dr. D. Michael Quinn, who was excommunicated from the Mormon Church in 1993, was at one time considered to be one of the Church's top scholars. He published articles for the Church's official publication, the ‘Ensign’ and also wrote for ‘Brigham Young University Studies.’
“Quinn obtained a Ph.D. in history at Yale University and was formerly Professor of American Social History at the Church's Brigham Young University. Unfortunately for Quinn, he dug too deeply into the secret documents in the Church Historical Department. Quinn was able to see these documents because he had an inside track at the Historical Department under Dr. Leonard Arrington, who was formerly Church Historian.
“In a speech Quinn gave in 1981, he noted that he had ‘spent a decade probing thousands of manuscript diaries and records of Church history’ that he ‘never dreamed’ he would view. (“On Being a Mormon Historian,” a lecture given by D. Michael Quinn, Brigham Young University, Fall 1981)
“When Dr. Quinn began publishing some of his more critical research--especially that regarding how the Church secretly sanctioned the practice of polygamy after the Manifesto--some Church leaders were incensed. In the book, "Faithful History,” edited by George D. Smith, p. 109, Quinn wrote the following:
“’In June 1986 the staff of the Church Historical Department announced it was necessary to sign a form which Elder Packer declared gave the right of pre-publication censorship for any archival research completed before signing the form. I and several others refused to sign the form and have not returned to do research at LDS Church archives since 1986.’
“In 1994, Quinn published his book, ‘The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power.’ This, of course, was very distressing to the leaders of the Church and to many of those associated with Brigham Young University and the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS). Quinn's second volume was published in 1997. It is entitled, “The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power" . . .
“Dean C. Jessee is a scholar who is well known to students of Mormon history. He is currently serving as a research historian in the Joseph Fielding Smith Institute for Church History at Brigham Young University. For many years, however, Jessee worked at the Church Historical Department and had access to a vast number of sensitive documents.
“When Michael Quinn's first volume was published, Jessee expressed concern that Quinn had given too much attention to the 'messy' matters researchers encounter when studying early Mormon history. He also wrote 'that the story he tells is not as free from speculation and faulty interpretation as his bold writing style and abundant source notes would imply.' (‘Journal of Mormon History,’ Fall 1996, pp. 164-165)
“Nevertheless, Dean Jessee acknowledged that Quinn did, in fact, have access to important Church documents and that he did ‘painstaking research.’ Jessee wrote the following in his review:
‘Few historians have been in a better position to study the Mormon past than D. Michael Quinn. With degrees in English and history, including a doctorate at Yale, employment in the LDS Church Historical Department and wide-ranging access to its holdings, a dozen years of teaching history at BYU and painstaking research in 75 repositories . . ., Quinn has spent a substantial part of his life studying Mormon history. This book and a second volume to follow are the outgrowth of research that led to a master's thesis, continued through a doctoral program and is the crowning accomplishment of 30 years work. . . .
“’The Mormon Hierarchy’ is a valuable contribution in terms of identifying sources and understanding the groundwork of the organizational structure. . . . While ‘Hierarchy’ has laid important groundwork, the definitive study remains to be written.'
“Over the years Dr. Quinn has often found himself faced with serious problems with Church leaders and officials at Brigham Young University. . . .
"As far as we know, Dr. Quinn had no problems with Church officials in his early years as a historian. Ironically, however, he did find himself in a controversy with us in 1977, when he became involved in plot to undermine our work. The Church Historical Department had been receiving many letters and inquiries regarding the truthfulness of our research, and it had become clear that something had to be done to refute our credibility--especially the material found in our book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?. It was secretly decided that the Historical Department would distribute a booklet attacking our work. Interestingly, D. Michael Quinn was designated to write the pamphlet. The booklet was published under the title, 'Jerald and Sandra Tanner's Distorted View of Mormonism: A Response to Mormonism--Shadow or Reality?'
"The publication of the pamphlet turned out to be a real disaster because those involved did not dare reveal that the Church Historical Department was responsible for its publication. Consequently, neither the name of the author nor the publisher was mentioned anywhere in the book. In addition, the publication was distributed in a clandestine fashion. Wilfrid Clark, who worked at Zion Bookstore, told us he received an anonymous letter containing a key to a room at a self storage company. He went to that location and picked up 1,800 free copies of the booklet!
"Our response to this work appeared in a publication entitled, 'Answering Dr. Clandestine: A Response to the Anonymous LDS Historian.' In this booklet we identified Quinn as the author. Even Lawrence Foster [a non Mormon who is very critical of our work] had to admit that, "The Tanners convincingly link the anonymous critique to D. Michael Quinn and the LDS Historical Department . . . ." ('Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought', Summer 1984, p. 510)
"
"While a number of Mormon scholars affiliated with Brigham Young University and FARMS eventually came to detest Michael Quinn's writings, they still continued to cite Quinn's attack on us in their publications. We feel that they must have known that Quinn was the author. Interestingly, however, the long-kept silence regarding this matter was finally broken by Brigham Young University Professor Louis Midgley. Midgley identified 'D. Michael Quinn' as the author in the FARMS publication, 'Review of Books on the Book of Mormon,' vol. 7, Issue 1, 1995, p. 236.
"Although we strongly disagreed with many of Quinn's conclusions regarding our work, in our response we wrote: 'We feel that he is probably one of the best historians in the Mormon Church. His dissertation written for Yale University is a masterpiece" (see 'Answering Dr. Clandestine,' p. 5)
"Dr. Quinn is a real enigma to many people. Although he has been excommunicated from the Church, he believes in the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith's First Vision. He, in fact, seems to feel that he has a calling to tell the truth about Mormonism, no matter where it leads. In an interview with a newspaper reporter Quinn emphasized that he is still a believer:
"'When Michael Quinn was asked about his relationship to the LDS Church, he still describes himself as a 'true believer.'" ("The Herald Journal," 10 February 1997)"
("Quinn's Rebellion" and "Quinn and Controversy," by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, in "Salt Lake City Messenger," no. 92, April 1997, at: http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no92.htm)
Indeed, it was Mike's daring and ground-breaking research regarding the Mormon Church's deceptive practice of post-Manifesto polygamy (which the Church had strenuously tried to keep hidden from the public) that eventually led to his excommunication. Mike has written in detail about his fall from Mormon grace, culminating in his exile from the LDS ranks in 1993 on the grounds of apostasy.
In the 1998 edition of his “Early Mormonism and the Magic World View” (p. xiii), Mike summarized what ended up happening to him kneeling before the ecclesiastical executioner's chopping block:
"At the publication of ‘Early Mormonism and the Magic World View,' I was full professor and director of the graduate history program at BYU. I resigned within several months because of administrative pressures against my continuing to work on controversial topics. In 1993 LDS officials formally charged me with 'apostasy' (heresy) for my historical writings, and I was excommunicated from the LDS Church.”
Mike had earlier, and more extensively, detailed the increasing pattern of mistreatment, disrespect, lack of cooperation and growing pressures on him to remain quiet on certain controversial topics of Mormon history--all of which were coming at him from the highest ranks of the Church. After tape recordings and transcriptions of Mike's talk, "On Being a Mormon Historian," began to be published and circulated without his permission, national attention to Quinn's views was heightened by a February 1982 issue of “Newsweek,” headlined "Apostles vs. Historians." From that point forward, the Mormon squeeze play on Mike began in earnest.
Of that, Mike wrote:
"A few days [after publication of the 'Newsweek' article], a General Authority invited me to his office. He warned me that he found Elder Packer to be easily offended and vindictive years afterward.
"In May [1982], my stake presidency informed me that five former bishops had recommended me to be the ward's new bishop but that Apostle Mark E. Petersen had blocked the appointment. He asked the stake presidency, 'Why is Michael Quinn in league with anti-Mormonism,' apparently referring to the unauthorized publication of my essay by the Tanners. Elder Petersen arranged for the Stake Presidency to bring me to the Church Administration Building at 47 East South Temple to meet with Apostles Petersen, Benson and Packer. The Second Counselor in the Stake Presidency accompanied me. The Apostles were careful not to ask me a single direct question. In order of seniority (Apostle Benson first, me last), each of us expressed his own views of the 'Newsweek' article, the 'problems' of writing Mormon history and the effects of all this on the faith of LDS members. The meeting was congenial and supportive."
That seeming support was to eventually evaporate, as those same three Apostles began a deliberate and on-going campaign to have Mike discredited, isolated and deposed, despite the fact that Mike had proven himself to be a highly regarded researcher and acclaimed educator.
As Mike noted:
"In the spring of 1986, graduating history majors at BYU voted me 'outstanding professor.' That fall BYU's administration had my name dropped from a list of participants in an upcoming celebration of Mormonism in Britain. Then, for the second year in a row, BYU's administration denied my application for 'Professional Development Leave.' This time the college dean invited me to his office to explain why. He said the Apostles on the Executive Committee of the Board of Trustees had prepared a list of faculty members and research topics which BYU administrators were forbidden to support. 'I have always hoped that one day BYU will become a real university,' the dean said, 'but this makes me feel that that day will never arrive.'
"By January 1987 pressures on me increased. BYU's administration required the History Department and Charles Redd Center for the American West to withdraw funds they had promised me to give a paper on general American religion at the University of Paris. It did not matter that the advanced text of the paper, entitled 'Religion, Rationalism and Folk Practices in America to the mid-19th Century,' made no reference to Mormonism. I paid my own way to France to represent BYU.
"Despite all that that had happened, until January 1987 I could not yet believe that my life's hopes were at an end. A new department chair let me know that my situation would improve only if I stopped doing research which implied Mormon studies. . . . Abandoning Mormon history may have been safe in the climate of repression but it as unacceptable to me, especially as an option of duress. 'Publish or perish' is the experience of scholars at most universities, but for this Mormon historian it was 'publish and perish' at BYU.
"After publication of my ‘Early Mormonism and the Magic World View’ in mid-1987, two members of BYU's History Department circulated the rumor that my stake High Council was excommunicating me for apostasy. The rumor was completely false but, more important, I had thought these rumor-mongers were my colleagues and friends. When a student asked the Dean of Religious Education if BYU was going to fire me, he replied that the Board of Trustees had decided against it. 'Like stirring up a turd on the ground,' he told the student, “firing Mike Quinn would only make a greater stink.” At this point, I began applying for research fellowships that would allow me to leave BYU. . . .
"On 20 January 1988, I wrote a letter of resignation . . . At the time of my resignation, I had tenure ('continuing status'), was Full-Professor of History and was Director of the History Department's graduate program. My letter of resignation represented my formal acknowledgment of failure--personal and institutional. . . .
"I again addressed [the issue of academic freedom] in 1991 after a rarely-used joint declaration by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles condemned the annual Sunstone Symposium . . . . Those who questioned this statement were being summarily dropped from Church positions and both Church and BYU administrative pressure was directed against a junior professor of anthropology at BYU who had given a symposium paper. I observed in a newspaper story; 'Consistently, from the beginning, the [LDS] Church leadership has always been uncomfortable with open forums that have been organized by the rank and file.' However, I added, 'in the 19th-century, the leadership recognized the existence of a loyal opposition and the 20th does not.'. . .
"Since leaving BYU and Utah, I have been an independent free-lance writer. I still do Mormon history. People of various persuasions still seem eager for it."
(D. Michael Quinn, "On Being a Mormon Historian (and Its Aftermath)," in George D. Smith, ed., “Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History” [Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1992], pp. 89-90, 92-96)
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--Quinn’s Phone Tapped--
Mike told me that his apartment phone was tapped (most likely, he thought, by Mormon Church security), and that, moreover, he was able to verify the power drain on his telephone line (indicating a deliberate intrusion) through the use of special phone equipment. He said that the likelihood of the drain actually being a tap was supported by employees at the local SLC phone company.
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--Quinn Targeted with Death Threats--
Mike has also received death threats from both Mormons and “anti-Mormons,” alike.
On the first, the Tanners explain:
”Around the time of his excommunication he was informed of a threat against his life. While Quinn did not link this threat with the Mormon Church itself, he believed that the rhetoric regarding his work had encouraged someone to threaten his life.”
(Tanner and Tanner, "Salt Lake City Messenger," April 1997)
As to receiving death threats from opponents of Mormonism, Mike himself noted, in his “On Being a Mormon Historian” lecture, the irony of being perceived as an enemy of the Mormon Church by the very Mormon Church leaders he continues to support and sustain as his religious leaders:
”The central argument of the enemies of the LDS Church is historical, and if we seek to build the Kingdom of God by ignoring or denying the problem areas of our past, we are leaving the Saints unprotected. As one who has received death threats from anti-Mormons because they perceive me as an enemy historian, it is discouraging to be regarded as subversive by men I sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators.”
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--The Break-up of Quinn’s Marriage and the Shocking Death of His Son--
Mike’s heterosexual marriage of many years eventually ended in divorce. Piling pain upon pain, his teenage son committed suicide by hanging himself in one of Salt Lake City's surrounding canyons.
I remember when I first heard the shocking news that Mike’s son had died. The report had been broadcast on local Salt Lake news, with details that were especially tragic: Mike's boy had been found hanging from a tree in one of the canyons surrounding Salt Lake City.
Unbeknownst to me at the time I first heard about the news and mistakenly believing that the media was reporting the young man's death as having just occurred, I immediately phoned Mike, expressing my shock and condolences and asking him if he was aware of what was being reported. Mike was very measured and soft spoken in his response. He informed me that his son had, in fact, taken his own life a few days earlier. Mike did not go into any of the details surrounding his child's demise and I did not ask. Mike reacted as I have always known Mike to respond during times of personal adversity, hardship, trial and disappointment: He manifested a strong sense of inner strength and outer resoluteness, combined with a quiet acceptance of the disappointments and challenges that life had dealt him. Although it would have been perfectly understandable had he broken down and cried during our conversation, Mike remained steady in his demeanor and spoke in a clear (albeit subdued) voice.
Whatever one may think of his personal religious beliefs, Mike is an individual of deep conviction, with a strong sense of self, and a person of unquestionable honesty, integrity and courage. During those horribly sad moments in the wake of his son's untimely and tragic death, Mike was a personal portrait of dignity, calmness, steadiness and peace. Once again, under the weight of enormous personal pain and grief, Mike showed himself to be a very good man.
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--Quinn’s Professional Career Spirals Down--
Following his excommunication, Mike's professional career took a nose dive.
Mike told me that he had been attempting to make some money as a portrait photographer. In fact, Mike does beautiful black-and-white photography work. He advertised in the local Salt Lake papers and, as I witnessed myself, the walls of his apartment were adorned with some of his more impressive work.
Still, as the years passed, Mike found himself unemployed and, in most cases, without the necessary grants funding to continue his historical research. He was fortunate, however, to eventually land a temporary job working in his alma mater’s library at Yale and subsequently was told he had received some continuing financial support to do research on gay issues at Huntington Library in California. At one point, Mike moved to Mexico to live with a friend. He also lived under trying conditions in San Francisco’s Chinatown In some of his most dire circumstances, he was living day-to-day, hand-to-mouth. Eventually, destitute, he moved in with his mother.
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--Quinn Is Not a Quitter—and Refuses to Quit His Church--
Through all the pain, tragedies, misfortunes and injustices in his life, Mike has remained steadfast and even-keeled in his personal faith. He has fervently maintained his testimony in what he believes to be the truthfulness of the Mormon Church--a Church which in its depraved and destructive state has persecuted and maligned him--remains firm. Despite his agonizing personal and professional experiences, Mike has maintained his committment to what he believes to be the truthfulness of the Mormon Church. This bespeaks a personal devotion greater than any hoped-for call to Mormon apostleship. At this point in his life, Kimball's promise to Mike in that regard seems, shall we say, a tad out of reach. Nevertheless, Mike's sincere belief in the LDS Church--a Church which in its depraved and destructive state has persecuted and maligned him--remains firm.
I genuinely do not understand that personal arrival point for Mike Quinn, but I say more power to him. Despite our differences, I know him to be a decent, honorable guy.
Edited 17 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2013 07:03PM by steve benson.
D. Michael Quinn who--despite his deeply-held, personal belief that the LDS Church was restored to the earth through Joseph Smith (yes, that is what he truly believes)--nonetheless got the excommunication boot because he dared talked too much about the reality of the Mormon Church's deceitfully practiced history of post-Manifesto polygamy. (For background on that vicious campaign of personal destruction waged by the Mormon Church against Quinn, see "Quinn Ex'ed for His Post-Manifesto Paper. The Cult Now Admits He Was Right," Parts 1 and 2, by Steve Benson, "Recovery from Mormonism" discussion board, 20 December 2013, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1113165,1113165#msg-1113165)
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Below is a summation of my own interactions with Mike Quinn regarding his personal beliefs regarding Mormonism. It represents my understanding of Mike's situation--although there is, of course, more that can be had, as more becomes known (A Church source has, off the record, informed me of certain possible developments in that regard). Much of what I relate below is based on what Mike has personally shared with me; other information is gleaned from my own research.
--How I Became Personally Acquainted with Mike Quinn--
I have known Mike as a personal friend for several years and admire him greatly (although we haven't been in direct contact for some time now), both as an individual and as a scholar, Despite our frienship, we disagree on some fundamental matters.
I first came into contact with Mike in 1993, after he had published an incredibly insightful article on my grandfather Ezra Taft Benson’s political conflicts with other members of the Quorum of the Twelve (see D. Michael Quinn, "Ezra Taft Benson and Mormon Political Conflicts,” in “Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought,” 26(2), Summer 1993: pp. 1-87).
I was so impressed with Mike’s “Dialogue” essay that I called him directly, identified myself and congratulated him on a very well researched and responsible piece of historical analysis. Except for one minor error (in which my father, Mark A. Benson, had been incorrectly said to have been an official member of the John Birch Society when, in fact, he was not, although he was a fervent supporter of Bircher anti-Communist teachings and goals), I had absolutely no beef with Mike’s analysis, only admiration.
The phone call apparently surprised Mike, given that it came out of the blue and we had never before had contact with one another. Mike confessed to me that when he realized that the grandson of Ezra Taft Benson was calling about his authored “Dialogue” piece, he assumed I was planning to gripe about it. He was pleasantly surprised to hear that, in fact, I was phoning to praise him for the extraordinarily good job he had done.
After I left the LDS Cult later that same year, I had ample occasions to talk directly with Mike about his own perspectives and beliefs pertaining to his personal Mormon beliefs.
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--Quinn’s Abiding Testimony in the Truthfulness of the Mormon Faith As God’s Restored Church On Earth--
In personal discussions, Mike shared with me his testimonial belief that the “Book of Mormon” was a literal historical record of ancient and accurate vintage; that Joseph Smith was a prophet called of God to reveal His divine truth to the world; that through Joseph Smith the golden plates were translated and that following the death of Joseph Smith the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints fell into apostasy through the corruption and sin of its leadership--and that this "falling away," if you will, of the Mormon Church from the purposes and designs of God's original 1830 restorative act, has continued up to the present time. Mike told me that it was his belief that a second Restoration (i.e., one occurring after the initial return of God's true Church to the earth in 1830 through the hands of Joseph Smith) was necessary in order to rehabilitate the Mormon Church and again make it the organization through which God would lead and guide His children to eventual salvation.
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--Quinn’s Book, "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View": His Own Research vs. His Own Views on the Case for Mormonism--
I asked Mike how he could profess a testimony in Mormonism’s historical and doctrinal foundations, especially given what many consider to be his devastatingly critical and historical dissection of Mormon origins and extensions of power.
From my own personal standpoint, Mike's compellingly documented book, “Early Mormonism and the Magic World View” (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1987, 313 pp.) had not only knocked out, but blown out, the struts out from under any serious claim that Mormons might attempt as to the alleged divinity of the LDS Church.
So impressed was I, in fact, with his book (which had a profound role in undermining my own belief in Mormonism), that I asked Mike to personally inscribe my copy, which he graciously agreed to do. On the title page, he wrote:
”Dear Steve,
“Great to meet you this morning just before the film crew arrived to interview you here! [At that time, I was in Salt Lake City to be interviewed by the press about the declining health of my grandfather and his mental and physical inability to effectively lead the Mormon Church]. Look forward to more talks and association with you. Best wishes, Mike (alias D. Michael) 7-14-93”
During our personal discussions, Mike acknowledged to me that he knew that his belief in Mormonism did not sound logical but that he nonetheless possessed an inward testimony of the “Book of Mormon,” of the prophetic calling by God of Joseph Smith and of the truthfulness of the Mormon Gospel as God's One and Only True Church. I found Mike's testimony startling, incongruous and at significant odds with his unparalleled research that, in my opinion, clearly exposed the fraud, frailties and fictions of Mormonism. But Mike's ultimate testimony in the Mormon faith seemed to rest on his firm belief that it was initially restored by God's hand in pure and true form, then became corrupted through the human-caused downfall of its leaders who subsequently followed Joseph Smith into power in the post-Smith era. Simply and fundamentally put, Mike holds on to the belief that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints remains God's true Church on the earth--but that it is in dire need of a complete restorative overhaul in order to bring it back to its original integrity, purpose, luster and exaltation-providing power.
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--Spencer W. Kimball’s Blessing to Quinn That Someday He Would Become an Apostle--
Mike also spoke to me during our talks together about a blessing he had received from then-Apostle Spencer W. Kimball. In it, Kimball promised Mike that if he remained faithful and obedient, he would someday become an Apostle in the Mormon Church. At the time of the Kimball blessing, Mike was still an active, temple-endowed, well-respected member of the Church.
Mike has written publicly about this blessing he received under Kimball’s hands.
In an autobiographical essay entitled, “The Rest Is History" (“Sunstone,” December 1995, p. 54), Mike addressed his personal consuming desire to someday become a member of the Quorum of the Twelve and how Kimball helped him deal with this distraction through the laying on of hands:
"President Kimball asked if I would like to have a blessing. As he laid his hands upon my head, I expected him to give me the comfort and strength to overcome my aspirations for Church office. Instead, Spencer W. Kimball promised me that one day God would call me to be an apostle. After the blessing, President Kimball told me not to work for the office or try to ‘curry favor’ with Church leaders, but just to live as I felt the Lord desired for me. There was no way I could logically explain that experience, then or now."
When we talked, it was clear to me, however, that Mike’s belief in Mormonism seemed to be much more personal and deeper than any anticipation he might have had of advancing into the upper echelons of LDS Church leadership. Mike’s testimony of the Mormon Gospel was a quiet, soft-spoken type of conviction about which he did not make a big deal---but to which he appeared genuinely committed.
_____
--Quinn’s Academic Credentials, Personal Travails and Ecclesiastical Persecution, Starting with His Excommunication for Telling the Truth About Post-Manifesto Polygamy--
What is all the more amazing about Mike's deep-rooted faith in the LDS Church is that his devotion to the basic claims of Mormonism has remained strong through the years, despite all that he has been through--often at the hands of the Mormon Church itself. At the peak of his professional career, Mike was a highly-regarded expert in his chosen field of history, both in out and of the Church.
Sandra and Jerald Tanner have reviewed his stellar academic career as follows:
”Dr. D. Michael Quinn, who was excommunicated from the Mormon Church in 1993, was at one time considered to be one of the Church's top scholars. He published articles for the Church's official publication, the ‘Ensign’ and also wrote for ‘Brigham Young University Studies.’
“Quinn obtained a Ph.D. in history at Yale University and was formerly Professor of American Social History at the Church's Brigham Young University. Unfortunately for Quinn, he dug too deeply into the secret documents in the Church Historical Department. Quinn was able to see these documents because he had an inside track at the Historical Department under Dr. Leonard Arrington, who was formerly Church Historian.
“In a speech Quinn gave in 1981, he noted that he had ‘spent a decade probing thousands of manuscript diaries and records of Church history’ that he ‘never dreamed’ he would view. (“On Being a Mormon Historian,” a lecture given by D. Michael Quinn, Brigham Young University, Fall 1981)
“When Dr. Quinn began publishing some of his more critical research--especially that regarding how the Church secretly sanctioned the practice of polygamy after the Manifesto--some Church leaders were incensed. In the book, "Faithful History,” edited by George D. Smith, p. 109, Quinn wrote the following:
“’In June 1986 the staff of the Church Historical Department announced it was necessary to sign a form which Elder Packer declared gave the right of pre-publication censorship for any archival research completed before signing the form. I and several others refused to sign the form and have not returned to do research at LDS Church archives since 1986.’
“In 1994, Quinn published his book, ‘The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power.’ This, of course, was very distressing to the leaders of the Church and to many of those associated with Brigham Young University and the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS). Quinn's second volume was published in 1997. It is entitled, “The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power" . . .
“Dean C. Jessee is a scholar who is well known to students of Mormon history. He is currently serving as a research historian in the Joseph Fielding Smith Institute for Church History at Brigham Young University. For many years, however, Jessee worked at the Church Historical Department and had access to a vast number of sensitive documents.
“When Michael Quinn's first volume was published, Jessee expressed concern that Quinn had given too much attention to the 'messy' matters researchers encounter when studying early Mormon history. He also wrote 'that the story he tells is not as free from speculation and faulty interpretation as his bold writing style and abundant source notes would imply.' (‘Journal of Mormon History,’ Fall 1996, pp. 164-165)
“Nevertheless, Dean Jessee acknowledged that Quinn did, in fact, have access to important Church documents and that he did ‘painstaking research.’ Jessee wrote the following in his review:
‘Few historians have been in a better position to study the Mormon past than D. Michael Quinn. With degrees in English and history, including a doctorate at Yale, employment in the LDS Church Historical Department and wide-ranging access to its holdings, a dozen years of teaching history at BYU and painstaking research in 75 repositories . . ., Quinn has spent a substantial part of his life studying Mormon history. This book and a second volume to follow are the outgrowth of research that led to a master's thesis, continued through a doctoral program and is the crowning accomplishment of 30 years work. . . .
“’The Mormon Hierarchy’ is a valuable contribution in terms of identifying sources and understanding the groundwork of the organizational structure. . . . While ‘Hierarchy’ has laid important groundwork, the definitive study remains to be written.'
“Over the years Dr. Quinn has often found himself faced with serious problems with Church leaders and officials at Brigham Young University. . . .
"As far as we know, Dr. Quinn had no problems with Church officials in his early years as a historian. Ironically, however, he did find himself in a controversy with us in 1977, when he became involved in plot to undermine our work. The Church Historical Department had been receiving many letters and inquiries regarding the truthfulness of our research, and it had become clear that something had to be done to refute our credibility--especially the material found in our book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?. It was secretly decided that the Historical Department would distribute a booklet attacking our work. Interestingly, D. Michael Quinn was designated to write the pamphlet. The booklet was published under the title, 'Jerald and Sandra Tanner's Distorted View of Mormonism: A Response to Mormonism--Shadow or Reality?'
"The publication of the pamphlet turned out to be a real disaster because those involved did not dare reveal that the Church Historical Department was responsible for its publication. Consequently, neither the name of the author nor the publisher was mentioned anywhere in the book. In addition, the publication was distributed in a clandestine fashion. Wilfrid Clark, who worked at Zion Bookstore, told us he received an anonymous letter containing a key to a room at a self storage company. He went to that location and picked up 1,800 free copies of the booklet!
"Our response to this work appeared in a publication entitled, 'Answering Dr. Clandestine: A Response to the Anonymous LDS Historian.' In this booklet we identified Quinn as the author. Even Lawrence Foster [a non Mormon who is very critical of our work] had to admit that, "The Tanners convincingly link the anonymous critique to D. Michael Quinn and the LDS Historical Department . . . ." ('Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought', Summer 1984, p. 510)
"
"While a number of Mormon scholars affiliated with Brigham Young University and FARMS eventually came to detest Michael Quinn's writings, they still continued to cite Quinn's attack on us in their publications. We feel that they must have known that Quinn was the author. Interestingly, however, the long-kept silence regarding this matter was finally broken by Brigham Young University Professor Louis Midgley. Midgley identified 'D. Michael Quinn' as the author in the FARMS publication, 'Review of Books on the Book of Mormon,' vol. 7, Issue 1, 1995, p. 236.
"Although we strongly disagreed with many of Quinn's conclusions regarding our work, in our response we wrote: 'We feel that he is probably one of the best historians in the Mormon Church. His dissertation written for Yale University is a masterpiece" (see 'Answering Dr. Clandestine,' p. 5)
"Dr. Quinn is a real enigma to many people. Although he has been excommunicated from the Church, he believes in the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith's First Vision. He, in fact, seems to feel that he has a calling to tell the truth about Mormonism, no matter where it leads. In an interview with a newspaper reporter Quinn emphasized that he is still a believer:
"'When Michael Quinn was asked about his relationship to the LDS Church, he still describes himself as a 'true believer.'" ("The Herald Journal," 10 February 1997)"
("Quinn's Rebellion" and "Quinn and Controversy," by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, in "Salt Lake City Messenger," no. 92, April 1997, at: http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no92.htm)
Indeed, it was Mike's daring and ground-breaking research regarding the Mormon Church's deceptive practice of post-Manifesto polygamy (which the Church had strenuously tried to keep hidden from the public) that eventually led to his excommunication. Mike has written in detail about his fall from Mormon grace, culminating in his exile from the LDS ranks in 1993 on the grounds of apostasy.
In the 1998 edition of his “Early Mormonism and the Magic World View” (p. xiii), Mike summarized what ended up happening to him kneeling before the ecclesiastical executioner's chopping block:
"At the publication of ‘Early Mormonism and the Magic World View,' I was full professor and director of the graduate history program at BYU. I resigned within several months because of administrative pressures against my continuing to work on controversial topics. In 1993 LDS officials formally charged me with 'apostasy' (heresy) for my historical writings, and I was excommunicated from the LDS Church.”
Mike had earlier, and more extensively, detailed the increasing pattern of mistreatment, disrespect, lack of cooperation and growing pressures on him to remain quiet on certain controversial topics of Mormon history--all of which were coming at him from the highest ranks of the Church. After tape recordings and transcriptions of Mike's talk, "On Being a Mormon Historian," began to be published and circulated without his permission, national attention to Quinn's views was heightened by a February 1982 issue of “Newsweek,” headlined "Apostles vs. Historians." From that point forward, the Mormon squeeze play on Mike began in earnest.
Of that, Mike wrote:
"A few days [after publication of the 'Newsweek' article], a General Authority invited me to his office. He warned me that he found Elder Packer to be easily offended and vindictive years afterward.
"In May [1982], my stake presidency informed me that five former bishops had recommended me to be the ward's new bishop but that Apostle Mark E. Petersen had blocked the appointment. He asked the stake presidency, 'Why is Michael Quinn in league with anti-Mormonism,' apparently referring to the unauthorized publication of my essay by the Tanners. Elder Petersen arranged for the Stake Presidency to bring me to the Church Administration Building at 47 East South Temple to meet with Apostles Petersen, Benson and Packer. The Second Counselor in the Stake Presidency accompanied me. The Apostles were careful not to ask me a single direct question. In order of seniority (Apostle Benson first, me last), each of us expressed his own views of the 'Newsweek' article, the 'problems' of writing Mormon history and the effects of all this on the faith of LDS members. The meeting was congenial and supportive."
That seeming support was to eventually evaporate, as those same three Apostles began a deliberate and on-going campaign to have Mike discredited, isolated and deposed, despite the fact that Mike had proven himself to be a highly regarded researcher and acclaimed educator.
As Mike noted:
"In the spring of 1986, graduating history majors at BYU voted me 'outstanding professor.' That fall BYU's administration had my name dropped from a list of participants in an upcoming celebration of Mormonism in Britain. Then, for the second year in a row, BYU's administration denied my application for 'Professional Development Leave.' This time the college dean invited me to his office to explain why. He said the Apostles on the Executive Committee of the Board of Trustees had prepared a list of faculty members and research topics which BYU administrators were forbidden to support. 'I have always hoped that one day BYU will become a real university,' the dean said, 'but this makes me feel that that day will never arrive.'
"By January 1987 pressures on me increased. BYU's administration required the History Department and Charles Redd Center for the American West to withdraw funds they had promised me to give a paper on general American religion at the University of Paris. It did not matter that the advanced text of the paper, entitled 'Religion, Rationalism and Folk Practices in America to the mid-19th Century,' made no reference to Mormonism. I paid my own way to France to represent BYU.
"Despite all that that had happened, until January 1987 I could not yet believe that my life's hopes were at an end. A new department chair let me know that my situation would improve only if I stopped doing research which implied Mormon studies. . . . Abandoning Mormon history may have been safe in the climate of repression but it as unacceptable to me, especially as an option of duress. 'Publish or perish' is the experience of scholars at most universities, but for this Mormon historian it was 'publish and perish' at BYU.
"After publication of my ‘Early Mormonism and the Magic World View’ in mid-1987, two members of BYU's History Department circulated the rumor that my stake High Council was excommunicating me for apostasy. The rumor was completely false but, more important, I had thought these rumor-mongers were my colleagues and friends. When a student asked the Dean of Religious Education if BYU was going to fire me, he replied that the Board of Trustees had decided against it. 'Like stirring up a turd on the ground,' he told the student, “firing Mike Quinn would only make a greater stink.” At this point, I began applying for research fellowships that would allow me to leave BYU. . . .
"On 20 January 1988, I wrote a letter of resignation . . . At the time of my resignation, I had tenure ('continuing status'), was Full-Professor of History and was Director of the History Department's graduate program. My letter of resignation represented my formal acknowledgment of failure--personal and institutional. . . .
"I again addressed [the issue of academic freedom] in 1991 after a rarely-used joint declaration by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles condemned the annual Sunstone Symposium . . . . Those who questioned this statement were being summarily dropped from Church positions and both Church and BYU administrative pressure was directed against a junior professor of anthropology at BYU who had given a symposium paper. I observed in a newspaper story; 'Consistently, from the beginning, the [LDS] Church leadership has always been uncomfortable with open forums that have been organized by the rank and file.' However, I added, 'in the 19th-century, the leadership recognized the existence of a loyal opposition and the 20th does not.'. . .
"Since leaving BYU and Utah, I have been an independent free-lance writer. I still do Mormon history. People of various persuasions still seem eager for it."
(D. Michael Quinn, "On Being a Mormon Historian (and Its Aftermath)," in George D. Smith, ed., “Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History” [Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1992], pp. 89-90, 92-96)
_____
--Quinn’s Phone Tapped--
Mike told me that his apartment phone was tapped (most likely, he thought, by Mormon Church security), and that, moreover, he was able to verify the power drain on his telephone line (indicating a deliberate intrusion) through the use of special phone equipment. He said that the likelihood of the drain actually being a tap was supported by employees at the local SLC phone company.
_____
--Quinn Targeted with Death Threats--
Mike has also received death threats from both Mormons and “anti-Mormons,” alike.
On the first, the Tanners explain:
”Around the time of his excommunication he was informed of a threat against his life. While Quinn did not link this threat with the Mormon Church itself, he believed that the rhetoric regarding his work had encouraged someone to threaten his life.”
(Tanner and Tanner, "Salt Lake City Messenger," April 1997)
As to receiving death threats from opponents of Mormonism, Mike himself noted, in his “On Being a Mormon Historian” lecture, the irony of being perceived as an enemy of the Mormon Church by the very Mormon Church leaders he continues to support and sustain as his religious leaders:
”The central argument of the enemies of the LDS Church is historical, and if we seek to build the Kingdom of God by ignoring or denying the problem areas of our past, we are leaving the Saints unprotected. As one who has received death threats from anti-Mormons because they perceive me as an enemy historian, it is discouraging to be regarded as subversive by men I sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators.”
_____
--The Break-up of Quinn’s Marriage and the Shocking Death of His Son--
Mike’s heterosexual marriage of many years eventually ended in divorce. Piling pain upon pain, his teenage son committed suicide by hanging himself in one of Salt Lake City's surrounding canyons.
I remember when I first heard the shocking news that Mike’s son had died. The report had been broadcast on local Salt Lake news, with details that were especially tragic: Mike's boy had been found hanging from a tree in one of the canyons surrounding Salt Lake City.
Unbeknownst to me at the time I first heard about the news and mistakenly believing that the media was reporting the young man's death as having just occurred, I immediately phoned Mike, expressing my shock and condolences and asking him if he was aware of what was being reported. Mike was very measured and soft spoken in his response. He informed me that his son had, in fact, taken his own life a few days earlier. Mike did not go into any of the details surrounding his child's demise and I did not ask. Mike reacted as I have always known Mike to respond during times of personal adversity, hardship, trial and disappointment: He manifested a strong sense of inner strength and outer resoluteness, combined with a quiet acceptance of the disappointments and challenges that life had dealt him. Although it would have been perfectly understandable had he broken down and cried during our conversation, Mike remained steady in his demeanor and spoke in a clear (albeit subdued) voice.
Whatever one may think of his personal religious beliefs, Mike is an individual of deep conviction, with a strong sense of self, and a person of unquestionable honesty, integrity and courage. During those horribly sad moments in the wake of his son's untimely and tragic death, Mike was a personal portrait of dignity, calmness, steadiness and peace. Once again, under the weight of enormous personal pain and grief, Mike showed himself to be a very good man.
_____
--Quinn’s Professional Career Spirals Down--
Following his excommunication, Mike's professional career took a nose dive.
Mike told me that he had been attempting to make some money as a portrait photographer. In fact, Mike does beautiful black-and-white photography work. He advertised in the local Salt Lake papers and, as I witnessed myself, the walls of his apartment were adorned with some of his more impressive work.
Still, as the years passed, Mike found himself unemployed and, in most cases, without the necessary grants funding to continue his historical research. He was fortunate, however, to eventually land a temporary job working in his alma mater’s library at Yale and subsequently was told he had received some continuing financial support to do research on gay issues at Huntington Library in California. At one point, Mike moved to Mexico to live with a friend. He also lived under trying conditions in San Francisco’s Chinatown In some of his most dire circumstances, he was living day-to-day, hand-to-mouth. Eventually, destitute, he moved in with his mother.
_____
--Quinn Is Not a Quitter—and Refuses to Quit His Church--
Through all the pain, tragedies, misfortunes and injustices in his life, Mike has remained steadfast and even-keeled in his personal faith. He has fervently maintained his testimony in what he believes to be the truthfulness of the Mormon Church--a Church which in its depraved and destructive state has persecuted and maligned him--remains firm. Despite his agonizing personal and professional experiences, Mike has maintained his committment to what he believes to be the truthfulness of the Mormon Church. This bespeaks a personal devotion greater than any hoped-for call to Mormon apostleship. At this point in his life, Kimball's promise to Mike in that regard seems, shall we say, a tad out of reach. Nevertheless, Mike's sincere belief in the LDS Church--a Church which in its depraved and destructive state has persecuted and maligned him--remains firm.
I genuinely do not understand that personal arrival point for Mike Quinn, but I say more power to him. Despite our differences, I know him to be a decent, honorable guy.
Edited 17 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2013 07:03PM by steve benson.
Heavy stuff.
I've been reading "The True Believer" recently and in thinking about the characteristics of those likely to follow a mass movement, as described by Hoffer, and this narrative really makes me wonder what draws Quinn into this.
I've been reading "The True Believer" recently and in thinking about the characteristics of those likely to follow a mass movement, as described by Hoffer, and this narrative really makes me wonder what draws Quinn into this.
By the way, Eric Hoffer's "True Believer" is a great book.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2013 07:34PM by steve benson.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2013 07:34PM by steve benson.
Quinn was NOT exed because of his research. A Church court was called after many rumors he had a gay lover (which were true). Quinn failed to show up at the Church Court, twice, and was excommunicated for disobeying a Church Court (i.e. to show up when he promised twice he would show up for it).
I'm talking about the case of a homosexual General Authority whose gay orientation was known among the LDS hierarchy but who was not excommunicated. (If Mike Quinn was, as you allege, excommunicated for being gay, then that was clearly used as a cover to discredit Quinn for his writings on Mormon Church history that the Church found problematic, inconvenient, embarrassing and, ultimatley, too truthful).
Please acquaint yourself with the following information, entitled, "CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS on Patriarch Joseph Fielding Smith’s Homosexuality,' compiled by Connell O'Donovan, with the generous assitance of D. Michael Quinn."
It is available through the Google God via the evil internet. After you have read it, please report to your stake president and confess your sins of:
a) reading the internet; and
b) posting on RfM.
Then return and report.
Here's the link:
http://www.connellodonovan.com/smith.html
Then prepare to be excommunicated.
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 08:47PM by steve benson.
Please acquaint yourself with the following information, entitled, "CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS on Patriarch Joseph Fielding Smith’s Homosexuality,' compiled by Connell O'Donovan, with the generous assitance of D. Michael Quinn."
It is available through the Google God via the evil internet. After you have read it, please report to your stake president and confess your sins of:
a) reading the internet; and
b) posting on RfM.
Then return and report.
Here's the link:
http://www.connellodonovan.com/smith.html
Then prepare to be excommunicated.
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 08:47PM by steve benson.
Here is a quote by the illustrious Mr. Quinn:
"LDS encounters with the divine have been as transcendent as those in other religions, while Mormon culture’s missteps are on a far smaller scale than those in other religious cultures.”
Yeah, right.
"LDS encounters with the divine have been as transcendent as those in other religions, while Mormon culture’s missteps are on a far smaller scale than those in other religious cultures.”
Yeah, right.
Remarkable scholar.
Fascinated that as a professional historian, he still thinks the original church is true.
Fascinated that as a professional historian, he still thinks the original church is true.
Exed due to his research or because he didn't show up at the church court? A gay lover? What's the truth?
If that is indeed true about Quinn, and an uncontroversial fact, Steve Benson is not being as open and honest here as I would expect him to be. Is he not being biased toward Quinn? If we slam the Mormon church for not being open and honest, and critize their inadequate essays, etc., we sure need to be better ourselves when presenting here. Please don't accuse me of trying to defend the Mormon church. I'm not.
. . . and I've relayed to readers of this board what I've learned over time, complete with cross-checks from other sources as I have come across them.
As I have said before, and as I say again, Mike is a brilliant historican (one who was ex'ed because he exposed inconvenient truths that the Mormon Church said he didn't have permission to bring to light).
I have also said that I do not agree with Mie's conclusion that the Mormon Church was restored to the earth by God and that it is in need of a second restoration to bring it back to its last-dispensation truthfulness.
I have also said that I cannot decipher, explain or rationally accept Mike's personal justification for his belief in the supposed literal existence of the Book of Mormon gold plates.
I have chalked Mike's commitment to the Mormon Church as being a testimony that defies logic.
That said, Mike has been honest in acknowledging--openly and forthrightly--that he ultimately is a Mormon beliver and that his belief in the Mormon Church is belief-based, not brain-based.
Go figure 'cuz I sure can't figure it out.
I still admire Mike and his amazing work. He has been put through personal hell by the Mormon Cult but has managed to survive with his honesty, character and credentials intact. He is unrivaled in the world of Mormon Church historical analysis. That is a fact, not a testimony, and I'm stickin' to it.
_____
For the record, let me repost what I have said before on this board about Mike Quinn. It is a merger of earlier comments I have made in response to questions about Mike Quinn and his present state of belief vis-a-vis Mormonism.
It includes information that I learned directly from Mike about what he has been through, as well relaying some general knowledge from other sources, all which provide some background into the personal trials and difficulties Mike as experienced over the last few years.
In an earlier post, titled, "Information About Quinn, RfM poster "Mad_Viking" asked:
"Anyone know where I can find out about Quinn? . . . I have heard that he is still a believer. I am really perplexed by this. Any insight?"
I replied, referencing from a previous personal post:
One other matter that I never brought up in my numerous previous posts on this board. It has to do with Michael Quinn, who has been a subject of discussion here lately, and deals with why he has chosen to remain a believer in the supposed truthfulness of Mormonism.
I have known Mike as a personal friend for several years and admire him greatly, both as an individual and as a scholar, although we disagree on some fundamental matters.
After I left the LDS cult in 1993, I had more than one occasion to talk directly, and in person, with Mike about his own perspectives and beliefs pertaining to Mormonism.
As I mentioned on this board before, Mike shared his testimonial belief with me that the Book of Mormon was a literal historical record of ancient and accurate vintage, that Joseph Smith was a prophet called of God to reveal His divine truth to the world, that through Joseph Smith the golden plates were translated and that following the death of Joseph Smith the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints fell into apostasy through the corruption and sin of its leadership--and that this "falling away," if you will, of the Mormon Church from the purposes and designs of God's original 1830 restorative act, has continued up to the present time.
Mike told me that it was his belief that a second Restoration (i.e., one coming after the initial return of God's true Church to the earth in 1830 through the hands of Joseph Smith) was necessary in order to rehabilitate the Mormon Church and again make it the organization through which God would lead and guide His children on earth.
I asked Mike how he could believe such things, especially given what many have considered his devastatingly revealing historical dissection of Mormon origins and its extensions of power.
Mike acknowledged to me that he knew that his belief in Mormonism did not sound logical but that he nonetheless possessed a personal testimony of the Book of Mormon, of the prophetic calling by God of Joseph Smith and of the truthfulness of the Mormon Gospel as God's one and only true Church.
Now, what Mike also told me (which I have not shared before on this board) is a promise made to him by then-apostle Spencer Kimball, at the time Mike was still an active, temple-endowed, well-respected member of the Church.
Mike said that Kimball promised him that if he continued in faithfulness and obedience, he, too, would one day become an apostle.
"Mad_Viking" then asked, "So, was it your impression that he held on to his beliefs of Joseph Smith's divine mission, despite his admission of it being illogical, simply because of this statement made to him from Spencer W Kimball?"
I replied that Mike Quinn told me he had a testimony of the Mormon Church as God's true Church; the gold plates as genuine, translated artifacts; and the mission of Joseph Smith as being God's chosen prophet of the Restoration.
Mike did not tell me that he held on to those beliefs in the hope that he would someday become an apostle (as then-apostle Spencer W. Kimball promised him, if Mike remained faithful), and I did not draw a link between the two because Mike did not make one. His belief in Mormonism seemed more personal and much deeper than any anticipation of advancement through the ranks. It was a quiet, soft-spoken type of conviction about which Mike did not make a big deal--but to which he appeared truly committed.
I found Mike's testimony startling, incongruous and at significant odds with his unparalleled research that clearly, in my opinion, exposed the fraud, frailities and fictions of Mormonism.
But Mike's ultimate testimony in Mormonism seemed to rest on his belief that it was initially restored by God's hand in pure and true form, then became corrupted through the human-caused downfall of its leaders who subsequently followed Joseph Smith into power in the post-Smith era.
Mike Quinn holds on to the belief that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints remains God's true Church on the earth--but that it is in dire need of a complete restorative overhaul in order to bring it back to its original integrity, purpose, luster and exaltation-providing power.
What is all the more amazing about Mike's deep-rooted faith is to see how his devotion to the basic claims of Mormonism has remained strong, despite all that he has been through.
At the peak of his career as an historian, Mike was a highly-regarded profesional in his field, both in out and of the Church.
Then, Mike's daring and ground-breaking research on the Mormon Church's deceptive practice of post-Manifesto polygamy (which the Church tried hard to keep hidden from the public) led to his excommunication on the grounds of apostasy. Dallin Oaks, in particular, was bitterly incensed at Mike's decision to air his findings and told me personally that Mike was a person without character who could not be trusted.
Mike's stake president also darkly hinted to him that he was being investigated on "moral" charges (relating, in all probability, to Mike's honest acknowledgement of being gay).
Mike told me that his home phone was tapped (most likely by Mormon Church security), and that, moreover, he was able to verify the power drain on his telephone line (indicating a deliberate intrusion) through the use of special phone equipment. He said that the likelihood of the drain actually being a tap was supported by employees at the local SLC phone company.
Mike was also the subject of death threats. His heterosexual marriage of many years ended in divorce and his teenage son committed suicide by hanging himself in one of Salt Lake City's surrounding canyons. Mike's professional career subsequently took a nose dive. He found himself unemployed and without the necessary grant funding to continue his historical research.
He moved to Mexico for a time to live with a friend and, at one point, was literally living day-to-day, hand-to-mouth.
Through it all, Mike has maintained his testimony in what he believes to be the truthfulness of the Mormon Church. This bespeaks a personal devotion greater than any hoped-for call to Mormon apostleship. At this point in his life, Kimball's promise to Mike in that regard seems, shall we say, a tad out of reach.
Nevertheless, Mike's sincere belief in the LDS Church--a Church which in its depraved and destructive state has persecuted and maligned him--remains firm.
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 08:35PM by steve benson.
As I have said before, and as I say again, Mike is a brilliant historican (one who was ex'ed because he exposed inconvenient truths that the Mormon Church said he didn't have permission to bring to light).
I have also said that I do not agree with Mie's conclusion that the Mormon Church was restored to the earth by God and that it is in need of a second restoration to bring it back to its last-dispensation truthfulness.
I have also said that I cannot decipher, explain or rationally accept Mike's personal justification for his belief in the supposed literal existence of the Book of Mormon gold plates.
I have chalked Mike's commitment to the Mormon Church as being a testimony that defies logic.
That said, Mike has been honest in acknowledging--openly and forthrightly--that he ultimately is a Mormon beliver and that his belief in the Mormon Church is belief-based, not brain-based.
Go figure 'cuz I sure can't figure it out.
I still admire Mike and his amazing work. He has been put through personal hell by the Mormon Cult but has managed to survive with his honesty, character and credentials intact. He is unrivaled in the world of Mormon Church historical analysis. That is a fact, not a testimony, and I'm stickin' to it.
_____
For the record, let me repost what I have said before on this board about Mike Quinn. It is a merger of earlier comments I have made in response to questions about Mike Quinn and his present state of belief vis-a-vis Mormonism.
It includes information that I learned directly from Mike about what he has been through, as well relaying some general knowledge from other sources, all which provide some background into the personal trials and difficulties Mike as experienced over the last few years.
In an earlier post, titled, "Information About Quinn, RfM poster "Mad_Viking" asked:
"Anyone know where I can find out about Quinn? . . . I have heard that he is still a believer. I am really perplexed by this. Any insight?"
I replied, referencing from a previous personal post:
One other matter that I never brought up in my numerous previous posts on this board. It has to do with Michael Quinn, who has been a subject of discussion here lately, and deals with why he has chosen to remain a believer in the supposed truthfulness of Mormonism.
I have known Mike as a personal friend for several years and admire him greatly, both as an individual and as a scholar, although we disagree on some fundamental matters.
After I left the LDS cult in 1993, I had more than one occasion to talk directly, and in person, with Mike about his own perspectives and beliefs pertaining to Mormonism.
As I mentioned on this board before, Mike shared his testimonial belief with me that the Book of Mormon was a literal historical record of ancient and accurate vintage, that Joseph Smith was a prophet called of God to reveal His divine truth to the world, that through Joseph Smith the golden plates were translated and that following the death of Joseph Smith the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints fell into apostasy through the corruption and sin of its leadership--and that this "falling away," if you will, of the Mormon Church from the purposes and designs of God's original 1830 restorative act, has continued up to the present time.
Mike told me that it was his belief that a second Restoration (i.e., one coming after the initial return of God's true Church to the earth in 1830 through the hands of Joseph Smith) was necessary in order to rehabilitate the Mormon Church and again make it the organization through which God would lead and guide His children on earth.
I asked Mike how he could believe such things, especially given what many have considered his devastatingly revealing historical dissection of Mormon origins and its extensions of power.
Mike acknowledged to me that he knew that his belief in Mormonism did not sound logical but that he nonetheless possessed a personal testimony of the Book of Mormon, of the prophetic calling by God of Joseph Smith and of the truthfulness of the Mormon Gospel as God's one and only true Church.
Now, what Mike also told me (which I have not shared before on this board) is a promise made to him by then-apostle Spencer Kimball, at the time Mike was still an active, temple-endowed, well-respected member of the Church.
Mike said that Kimball promised him that if he continued in faithfulness and obedience, he, too, would one day become an apostle.
"Mad_Viking" then asked, "So, was it your impression that he held on to his beliefs of Joseph Smith's divine mission, despite his admission of it being illogical, simply because of this statement made to him from Spencer W Kimball?"
I replied that Mike Quinn told me he had a testimony of the Mormon Church as God's true Church; the gold plates as genuine, translated artifacts; and the mission of Joseph Smith as being God's chosen prophet of the Restoration.
Mike did not tell me that he held on to those beliefs in the hope that he would someday become an apostle (as then-apostle Spencer W. Kimball promised him, if Mike remained faithful), and I did not draw a link between the two because Mike did not make one. His belief in Mormonism seemed more personal and much deeper than any anticipation of advancement through the ranks. It was a quiet, soft-spoken type of conviction about which Mike did not make a big deal--but to which he appeared truly committed.
I found Mike's testimony startling, incongruous and at significant odds with his unparalleled research that clearly, in my opinion, exposed the fraud, frailities and fictions of Mormonism.
But Mike's ultimate testimony in Mormonism seemed to rest on his belief that it was initially restored by God's hand in pure and true form, then became corrupted through the human-caused downfall of its leaders who subsequently followed Joseph Smith into power in the post-Smith era.
Mike Quinn holds on to the belief that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints remains God's true Church on the earth--but that it is in dire need of a complete restorative overhaul in order to bring it back to its original integrity, purpose, luster and exaltation-providing power.
What is all the more amazing about Mike's deep-rooted faith is to see how his devotion to the basic claims of Mormonism has remained strong, despite all that he has been through.
At the peak of his career as an historian, Mike was a highly-regarded profesional in his field, both in out and of the Church.
Then, Mike's daring and ground-breaking research on the Mormon Church's deceptive practice of post-Manifesto polygamy (which the Church tried hard to keep hidden from the public) led to his excommunication on the grounds of apostasy. Dallin Oaks, in particular, was bitterly incensed at Mike's decision to air his findings and told me personally that Mike was a person without character who could not be trusted.
Mike's stake president also darkly hinted to him that he was being investigated on "moral" charges (relating, in all probability, to Mike's honest acknowledgement of being gay).
Mike told me that his home phone was tapped (most likely by Mormon Church security), and that, moreover, he was able to verify the power drain on his telephone line (indicating a deliberate intrusion) through the use of special phone equipment. He said that the likelihood of the drain actually being a tap was supported by employees at the local SLC phone company.
Mike was also the subject of death threats. His heterosexual marriage of many years ended in divorce and his teenage son committed suicide by hanging himself in one of Salt Lake City's surrounding canyons. Mike's professional career subsequently took a nose dive. He found himself unemployed and without the necessary grant funding to continue his historical research.
He moved to Mexico for a time to live with a friend and, at one point, was literally living day-to-day, hand-to-mouth.
Through it all, Mike has maintained his testimony in what he believes to be the truthfulness of the Mormon Church. This bespeaks a personal devotion greater than any hoped-for call to Mormon apostleship. At this point in his life, Kimball's promise to Mike in that regard seems, shall we say, a tad out of reach.
Nevertheless, Mike's sincere belief in the LDS Church--a Church which in its depraved and destructive state has persecuted and maligned him--remains firm.
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 08:35PM by steve benson.
Lavina Fielding Anderson did a biography? Anyway, that is according to wikipedia. Here is an article she wrote about why Quinn was exed as part of the "September Six".
https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/092-65-79.pdf
The church is hardly operating from an unbiased position in trying to squelch dissent by painting excommunication as a moral failing of the member rather than due to any embarrassing criticism of the organization. Blame the victim.
See Simon Southerton for a similar smear campaign when his DNA research became public.
https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/092-65-79.pdf
The church is hardly operating from an unbiased position in trying to squelch dissent by painting excommunication as a moral failing of the member rather than due to any embarrassing criticism of the organization. Blame the victim.
See Simon Southerton for a similar smear campaign when his DNA research became public.
Quinn's statements of "sincere" belief are well-contradicted by his own research and facts.
He may believe that conviction against facts is stronger "faith," or even more noble as a test, BUT, as they say, if you hear hooves pounding, think horses (rather than zebras).
It is easier for me to believe that his statements about his field of study and employment are a more logical explanation. Michael Quinn has a very, very narrow area of research which is of no general interest, even to religious scholars.
Who will pay his salary if he became an an apostate?
Far easier -- and smarter -- for him to claim belief in a future reformer while still claiming a testimony in the debunked-by-him transcendent events described by Joseph Smith. It allows him to continue to function in the only cohort that values his work enough to pay him.
If he is leaves, all his peers have to face temple questions asking if they associate with or have sympathy with any apostates. If they admit to admiring Quinn, then their own careers are threatened.
It has always been a quagmire of cog dis for a man with integrity to become a specialist in Mormon church research. It destroyed Thomas Ferguson and to Quinn's credit, at least he had the grace to live an authentic life--finally.
We have a lot of material we would not have if it weren't for Quinn. His "...Magic World View" book was my first anti-Mormon book and I will be forever grateful for him taking the risks he did. It saved the rest of my life for me to live.
With appreciation for a good man, Michael Quinn.
Anagrammy
He may believe that conviction against facts is stronger "faith," or even more noble as a test, BUT, as they say, if you hear hooves pounding, think horses (rather than zebras).
It is easier for me to believe that his statements about his field of study and employment are a more logical explanation. Michael Quinn has a very, very narrow area of research which is of no general interest, even to religious scholars.
Who will pay his salary if he became an an apostate?
Far easier -- and smarter -- for him to claim belief in a future reformer while still claiming a testimony in the debunked-by-him transcendent events described by Joseph Smith. It allows him to continue to function in the only cohort that values his work enough to pay him.
If he is leaves, all his peers have to face temple questions asking if they associate with or have sympathy with any apostates. If they admit to admiring Quinn, then their own careers are threatened.
It has always been a quagmire of cog dis for a man with integrity to become a specialist in Mormon church research. It destroyed Thomas Ferguson and to Quinn's credit, at least he had the grace to live an authentic life--finally.
We have a lot of material we would not have if it weren't for Quinn. His "...Magic World View" book was my first anti-Mormon book and I will be forever grateful for him taking the risks he did. It saved the rest of my life for me to live.
With appreciation for a good man, Michael Quinn.
Anagrammy
He believes that God revealed the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ through Joseph Smith.
He believes that the Mormon Church is God's true Church and that Joseph Snith was God's true prophet.
Be believes that there were was a literal, physical set of gold plates that Smith translated into the Book of Mormon.
He knows that that all the above are matters of testimonial faith on his part.
He sees humans as being fallible (including Joseph Smith) but believes that after Smith was killed, the Mormon Church was led into deep apostasy by Brigham Young and other subsequent Mormon Church leaders. he believes, therefore, that the Mormon Church is currently still in a state of apostasy and in need of a second Restoration in order to bring it back to being divinely inspired.
Mike Quinn, Mormon believer, was excommunicated not because he lied about Mormon doctrine, history and practice, and not because he is gay.
He was excommunicated because he told the truth, publicly, about officially-sanctioned and -aided Mormon Church cover-ups and deceit involving its continued post-Manifesto practice of polygamy. That historical fact was courageously seized upon by Mike and openly, factually addressed by Mike--to the chagrin and anger of Mormon Church leaders who then booted Mike out of the Church as an example of what happens when one is too critical of Mormon Church interests.
That Mike believes all the points listed above--but still is willing to tell the empirical truth, at least as he sees and interprets it--demonstrates the power of personal faith over the power of rational brain function in certain fundamental elements of the human condition. It is a dichotomy that has been seen throughout the course of human history and is manifested even among highly intelligent human beings who choose, in some cases, to opt for faith over fact based on a host of personal and complex reasons and feelings.
I still think Mike Quinn is a damn fine historian and should wear his excommunication as a badge of honor. I think he's out to lunch, though, when it comes to that there rusticville Restoration and them there fake gold plates.
Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2013 09:09PM by steve benson.
He believes that the Mormon Church is God's true Church and that Joseph Snith was God's true prophet.
Be believes that there were was a literal, physical set of gold plates that Smith translated into the Book of Mormon.
He knows that that all the above are matters of testimonial faith on his part.
He sees humans as being fallible (including Joseph Smith) but believes that after Smith was killed, the Mormon Church was led into deep apostasy by Brigham Young and other subsequent Mormon Church leaders. he believes, therefore, that the Mormon Church is currently still in a state of apostasy and in need of a second Restoration in order to bring it back to being divinely inspired.
Mike Quinn, Mormon believer, was excommunicated not because he lied about Mormon doctrine, history and practice, and not because he is gay.
He was excommunicated because he told the truth, publicly, about officially-sanctioned and -aided Mormon Church cover-ups and deceit involving its continued post-Manifesto practice of polygamy. That historical fact was courageously seized upon by Mike and openly, factually addressed by Mike--to the chagrin and anger of Mormon Church leaders who then booted Mike out of the Church as an example of what happens when one is too critical of Mormon Church interests.
That Mike believes all the points listed above--but still is willing to tell the empirical truth, at least as he sees and interprets it--demonstrates the power of personal faith over the power of rational brain function in certain fundamental elements of the human condition. It is a dichotomy that has been seen throughout the course of human history and is manifested even among highly intelligent human beings who choose, in some cases, to opt for faith over fact based on a host of personal and complex reasons and feelings.
I still think Mike Quinn is a damn fine historian and should wear his excommunication as a badge of honor. I think he's out to lunch, though, when it comes to that there rusticville Restoration and them there fake gold plates.
Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2013 09:09PM by steve benson.
steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He believes that God revealed the restored Gospel
> of Jesus Christ through Joseph Smith.
>
> He believes that the Mormon Church is God's true
> Church and that Joseph Snith was God's true
> prophet.
>
> Be believes that there were was a literal,
> physical set of gold plates that Smith translated
> into the Book of Mormon.
>
> He knows that that all the above are matters of
> testimonial faith on his part.
>
> He sees humans as being fallible (including
> Joseph Smith) but believes that after Smith was
> killed, the Mormon Church was led into deep
> apostasy by Brigham Young and other subsequent
> Mormon Church leaders.
Wow! Steve, you have just described someone that I personally know who has these same beliefs but believed the reason he and his family got their names removed from the church in 1980 was because there was going to be a New World Order that has the names of all members of every church and by removing their names, his family would get a running head start. The man I am talking about spent the better part of 15 years trying to disprove the church by reading about the original church history. Later on this man told me that God didn't want him to waste his time disproving the church and gave him another task instead. He has now spent the last ten years of his life writing a gospel harmony of Jesus Christ using Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (and the BoM). He even started a blog with this gospel harmony on it, but was later "told by God" to take it down and keep it only for his family.
I didn't understand how he could know so much d$%#ing history of the church, and still believe it. Now I find out that there are others out there who still believe too--even after being excommunicated? My mind is blown.
-------------------------------------------------------
> He believes that God revealed the restored Gospel
> of Jesus Christ through Joseph Smith.
>
> He believes that the Mormon Church is God's true
> Church and that Joseph Snith was God's true
> prophet.
>
> Be believes that there were was a literal,
> physical set of gold plates that Smith translated
> into the Book of Mormon.
>
> He knows that that all the above are matters of
> testimonial faith on his part.
>
> He sees humans as being fallible (including
> Joseph Smith) but believes that after Smith was
> killed, the Mormon Church was led into deep
> apostasy by Brigham Young and other subsequent
> Mormon Church leaders.
Wow! Steve, you have just described someone that I personally know who has these same beliefs but believed the reason he and his family got their names removed from the church in 1980 was because there was going to be a New World Order that has the names of all members of every church and by removing their names, his family would get a running head start. The man I am talking about spent the better part of 15 years trying to disprove the church by reading about the original church history. Later on this man told me that God didn't want him to waste his time disproving the church and gave him another task instead. He has now spent the last ten years of his life writing a gospel harmony of Jesus Christ using Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (and the BoM). He even started a blog with this gospel harmony on it, but was later "told by God" to take it down and keep it only for his family.
I didn't understand how he could know so much d$%#ing history of the church, and still believe it. Now I find out that there are others out there who still believe too--even after being excommunicated? My mind is blown.
You can thank evolution for providing us with so many temporal-lobe brain cells that give us the uniquely-human ability to perform these functions.
I hope our critical-thinking skills are able to assist more humans in distinguishing the difference between fact and fiction, no matter how intensely we may use our powers of imagining and rationalizing to deny reality. I also hope that emotional feelings don't get in the way of empirical evidences.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2013 04:06PM by steve benson.
I hope our critical-thinking skills are able to assist more humans in distinguishing the difference between fact and fiction, no matter how intensely we may use our powers of imagining and rationalizing to deny reality. I also hope that emotional feelings don't get in the way of empirical evidences.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2013 04:06PM by steve benson.
Indeed.
If Quinn is sincere in his belief in that which he has proved (at best) implausible, then I call that delusional.
It smacks of the deepest, worst case of cog dis I have ever seen.
Imagine repudiating your life's work of truth-seeking by "choosing" to believe lies you yourself exposed.
A form of academic prostitution.
Anagrammy
BTW, Quinn was close to Jerald Tanner, holding him in great regard, and came out of his cloister to pay his respects at the funeral.
If Quinn is sincere in his belief in that which he has proved (at best) implausible, then I call that delusional.
It smacks of the deepest, worst case of cog dis I have ever seen.
Imagine repudiating your life's work of truth-seeking by "choosing" to believe lies you yourself exposed.
A form of academic prostitution.
Anagrammy
BTW, Quinn was close to Jerald Tanner, holding him in great regard, and came out of his cloister to pay his respects at the funeral.
He told me no one but Mormons (all kinds) are interested in the nitpicking he does about historical details in Mormon history.
Which means, he cannot get a job because he has too narrow a specialty.
Anagrammy
Which means, he cannot get a job because he has too narrow a specialty.
Anagrammy
two disparate things at once-- So I can believe that Mike Quinn would be a TBM. However, I still wonder why he would want to believe.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2013 04:10PM by cynthus.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2013 04:10PM by cynthus.
I simply want to put forth my respect for Dr.Quinn - an esteemed scholar with both Masters and Doctoral degrees from Yale- My only possible explanation for his continued belief in the church, is that in my own dissident life certain lds hymns still invoke emotion in me-Dr.Quinn is a good man and I wish him all the best!
LD$ Inc. has destroyed Mr. Quinn's livelihood and impoverished him and he still thinks mormonism is true ?
My good friends here on this board-just remember that Dr.Quinn is one of our forefathers and a man to be looked up to-his scholarship has been invaluable- and he is a man for whom we should all feel a debt of gratitude.